Posted on 09/17/2010 8:33:36 AM PDT by Kaslin
An accomplished young man is killed by police outside a Vegas Costco, and bystander accounts starkly contrast with official reports.
Erik Scott was a West Point graduate, Army veteran, MBA graduate of Duke University, and a medical sales rep for Boston Scientific. He was gunned down by three Las Vegas police officers after they responded to a 911 call by Costco store employees reporting a man with a gun, possibly on narcotics, behaving erratically.
Scott was 38 years old, shopping with his girlfriend for items they needed as they moved in together. Unfortunately, those are the only details of the story on which anyone agrees.
To hear the side of the story presented by Scott’s family, friends, and some eyewitnesses, Erik Scott’s death was the result of ignorance and embellishment on the part of the Costco staff, and a combative, deterministic mindset from responding officers.
Other witnesses and the police claim that Eric Scott was armed and acting irrationally, and that his own actions led to his shooting.
What we know for certain is that Scott was in the camping section of the store taking bottles out of their packaging, attempting to determine how many of the bottles would fit in a cooler he was thinking of purchasing. At some point he bent over and his shirt rode up, exposing the pistol he had concealed at the small of his back.
A Costco employee saw the holstered sidearm and told Scott he was not allowed to have the weapon in the store. Scott replied that he had a permit and the right to carry his weapon. He then went back to shopping. The employee called over a manager, who informed a 20-something security guard, who made a 911 call to police.
We do not know precisely what was said in that important call, because the police have refused to release it. We do, however, know from police radio traffic picked up by a scanner that the guard had told police that Erik Scott was armed with a gun, was acting aggressively and erratically, and that he may have been under the influence of drugs.
It must have been a frightening tale: over a dozen police officers responded, along with a helicopter, ambulance, and competing incident command teams.
As the police began to form a massive perimeter outside, Costco managers began evacuating the entire store without apparently explaining why to anyone. As Scott and his girlfriend exited the store he was identified to police officers, who were waiting with guns drawn outside the front door.
A blog from Erik’s family described what happened next:
Erik turned to find three officers facing him, guns drawn, and all three shouting different commands: “Get on the ground!” “Drop your weapon!” “Keep your hands up!” Erik held his hands up, spoke calmly, told them he DID have a concealed firearm and a legal CCW and was an ex-Army officer. His girlfriend was screaming about Erik being a West Point grad, former Army officer, etc. Erik leaned to his left, hands still up, to expose the pistol, and repeated, “I am disarming; I am disarming.” Witnesses say he started to lower his right hand, palm OUT, perhaps intending to remove holster and gun together — but never got the hand below his shoulder, when one of the cops (believed to be William Mosher, who had committed a fatal shooting in 2006) shot Erik in the chest with a .45-caliber semi-automatic weapon. Erik dropped to his knees, clearly in shock, his face a picture of disbelief. He was shot a second time and collapsed. The rest is ugly. The three officers unloaded again, firing a total of seven hollow-point rounds. At least four, possibly five, hit Erik in the back, after he was on the ground and dying.
Two experts hired by Scott’s family examined his body. They claim that of the seven .45 ACP hollowpoint bullets fired into Scott’s body, one was fired through his armpit, suggesting his arm was raised at the time. Four remaining shots were fired into his back. There were no exit wounds, making it all but impossible for police to claim that investigators misread through-and-through wounds.
Metro Police Captain Patrick Neville claimed a different series of events, based in part on the 911 call that police have not released:
I could clearly hear the officers giving commands to the individual to get him on the ground, hear people yelling and screaming in the background. You could hear the shots being fired. When you listen to that, it definitely sends a chill down your spine.
There are no commands or communications between Erik Scott and police captured on a nine-minute audiotape during which the shooting occurred. Officers not directly in front of the store are heard over the radio establishing a perimeter and trying to block off access to the store’s parking lot. The first indication Scott and the police have made contact is when a officer breaks in to call “shots fired” after Scott is on the ground, already dying or dead.
In another interview, Captain Neville claimed Scott did not listen to police commands:
He does not comply with that order. He reaches for the weapon, pulls the weapon out … uh, at which time the weapon was out of the waistband, the officers — three officers — discharged their weapons.
Others on the scene did not see it that way. Robert Garcia directly conflicts the reports of police:
I was close enough to see this guy’s face, and to see his hands, and to see his body go down.
Walking just ten feet in front of Erik Scott, Garcia exited the Costco to see officers with guns drawn. He heard an officer yell: “Put it down! Get down!”
Then he claims four shots were fired, and he instantly turned towards the victim:
After hearing the shots I see the guy going down. I looked at — I saw his hands. His hands had no gun in it. I looked on the ground because — just, I just did that. I looked down and I didn’t see a gun. I saw what I thought were maybe sunglasses. And a pen.
This matches up with several other eyewitness claims that officers William Mosher, Joshua Stark, and Thomas Mendiola fired nearly immediately after shouting conflicting commands at Scott, giving him little or no time to respond. Four other witnesses within 20 feet of the store’s entrance all agree that Scott never brandished a weapon or made a move that could be interpreted as brandishing a weapon.
A coroner’s inquest is to be held next week, but the outcome seems foreordained. In the past 34 years, only one Metro officer has ever been found to have acted improperly out of at least 190 inquests, and that officer wasn’t charged with a crime.
For the record, the Costco did not have signs posted prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons. Scott did not violate any laws in carrying his weapon in the store. It is quite possible that Erik Scott was gunned down without having committed so much as a misdemeanor crime, and that the officers who shot him will be merely the latest exonerated in a long line from an apparently unaccountable police force.
What, you don't like the guy? Ok, we'll get another one....
They wil whitewash it. The coverup is already in the works. Now if he had been Black, or even better, a Black drug dealer........
However, their 'equipment' was having technological difficulties at the same time as the LV store's equipment.
Someone dropped the CD into a toaster by mistake.
If police officers were pointing their weapons at me and I was under a CC permit I would comply EXACTLY to their commands. I wouldn’t move an extra muscle, I sure wouldn’t make ANY move towards my weapon. It seems like the only question here is did he make a gesture to his waist after being told not to.
It is obvious that they don't communicate with each other, but I don't think it happens only in the police department, it happens in civilian jobs too
I don’t know about that. Figure a store must have 50 or more cameras. That’s a lot of bandwidth, way more than standard cable, maybe need a T-1 line. A more affordable is on sight back up hard drives. ( They’re cheap )
Does 'glitched' mean the same as putting the CD into a toaster?
The 12 will be the only ones called to testify. And the headline will read:”100% of witnesses agree on the police version.”
I went to Vegas with some friends seven or eight years ago. All of them are very accomplished, responsible guys in thier forties. Several of them had an encounter with the Las Vegas PD. Although I was not with them at the time, I am told that the officers were irrational, aggressive, rude, direspectful, and hostile. My heart weeps for the young man victimized by the Las Vegas PD. I hope the lawsuit which will surely follow results in an adeqautely large award against the City of Las Vegas that it will motivate the city to control its officers.
Well then, it seems the director of the Internal Affairs Department of Las Vegas is doing his job by NOT doing his job.
Would be an amusing assesment of job performance. Zero officer prosecutions in 20 years. Great job!
But COSTCO and the LVPD know what she said. Which is exactly why we will never hear it.
Had something she said been beneficial to the police shooting, you can bet it would have been broadcast that day.
it’s hard to comply when you are getting conflicting commands. I do agree the best thing to do is keep your hands clear and slowly get to the ground. incredibly, in this case, they shot the gut 4 or 5 times (in the back) as he lay on the ground so it’s hard to say if that would have helped him. For me, based on what has come out, it’s impossible to justify this shooting
my thoughts also. They should have tapes of the 911 call by security/costgo. i am suspicious why they have not been released if they would collaborate what was dispatched and broadcast.
Of course something went really bad.A guy's dead.
in my experience these men and women never exhibit erratic behaviour.
During my stellar Army career (cough,cough) I,to the best of my knowledge,encountered few (if any) West Point grads.My guess is that most of the officers I encountered were ROTC or OCS...so I can't speak from first hand experience.But my philosophy is "never say never".I can absolutely accept that graduates of West Point,the Naval Academy and the Air Force Academy very,*very* rarely exhibit erratic behavior but there have *got* to be at least a few such grads who develop a serious psychiatric problem or a drug or alcohol problem,etc.
I'm *not* saying that that's the case here...but it's gotta happen at least once in a while.
Just sayin'....
“Costco will give our attorney, Ross Goodman, an unaltered copy of the appropriate Summerlin-store surveillance-video recorded on July 10th. We know another copy exists, archived offsite, per Costco’s insurance requirements. And METRO’s Sheriff Gillespie will release the 911-call audio tape, at least to Ross Goodman, if not to the Las Vegas media.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2579595/posts
Well, it isn’t so much between them as is the person being arrested. Figure in the space of one to two seconds, you might have four or five conflicting commands yelled at you by red faced, high pulsed, gun pointing in combat stance LEO’s. So you move spastic...as in...not obeying commands. Each officer is CONDITIONED that you will obey HIS order. So, in this case, you have three, ready to shoot officers each of which is processing/reacting to you not immediately obeying HIS order, which means you must be doing something else, have not placed yourself under arrest. By then it’s a matter of mili-seconds before you are shot. Once the first shot is fired, the others will reflexively fire until you are in a prone position.
The officers will expect the system to back them up, and the system will expect the officers to back up the system’s training. Circle close. Loop closed. Systems check A.O.K. Call Hazmat contractor for bleach wash-down. Everyone, RTD.
bttt
Gun is in your holster, not in your hand...
Officer #1: GET ON THE GROUND! Officer #2: DROP YOUR WEAPON! Officer #3: KEEP YOUR HANDS UP!
Which do you do?
Get on the ground? Officer #2 and #3 shoot you because to get on the ground you lowered your hands a bit for balance or to place them on the ground. Officer #1, who you were complying with, shoots you because Officers #2 and 3 shot you.
Drop your weapon? Officer #1 shoots you because you aren't getting on the ground. Officer #3 shoots you because you went to unbuckle your belt to drop your weapon. Officer #2 shoots you because #1 and #3 did.
Put your hands up? Officer #2 shoots you because you didn't drop your gun, instead as your hands go up he thinks you are going to pull your weapon. Officer #1 shoots you because you aren't dropping your weapon. Officer #3 shoots you because #1 and #2 shot you.
So how did that work out for you...or Erik Scott?
I can’t see how this was anything but state sanctioned murder.
What is going on with cops? Have they lost their minds, are they being trained to use unrealistic force? It seems all they know how to do is to attempt to dominate the scene and intimidate the public... no matter who you are. They are aggressive at all times no matter the situation.
They are everywhere on the highways and streets and yet seem to only have time for traffic stops / revenue generation. On a trip back from the airport last night my radar detector was almost constantly buzzing.
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