Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Pence: Supreme Court Will Overturn Obamacare
Newsmax ^ | 10/15/10

Posted on 10/15/2010 5:06:53 AM PDT by truthandlife

Good news for opponents of the new healthcare law: The Supreme Court is likely to overturn key elements of it, says Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., the third-ranking House Republican, The Hill reports. "It's going to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court's going to decide whether or not the Constitution of the United States permits the government to order the American people to purchase goods or services, whether they want them or need them or not," says Pence, who opposes Obamacare, just like nearly all Republicans.

Mike Pence, healthcare, Obamacare, Supreme CourtAnd what will the court decide?

"I rather like our chances when this thing gets to the U.S. Supreme Court," Pence said Friday on WLS radio in Indiana. "I think there could be a narrow majority on the court that recognizes that you cannot compel the American people to purchase health insurance just as a function of being an American citizen."

(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: bhohealthcare; elections; healthcare; healthinsurance; obama; obamacare; pence; sc; scotus; socialisthealthcare; socializedmedicine
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-54 next last

1 posted on 10/15/2010 5:06:55 AM PDT by truthandlife
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

SO ...

If this is true, how can the government mandate that automobile insurance be purchased?

Just askin ...


2 posted on 10/15/2010 5:12:27 AM PDT by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag
If this is true, how can the government mandate that automobile insurance be purchased?

They can only do that for people who decide to use government services and products (the roads).

The difference is that with the healthcare mandate, there are no "only if" provisions. Everyone must buy, regardless of need or want.

3 posted on 10/15/2010 5:15:49 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag

The government can’t mandate that you buy auto insuracne. They can mandate that you buy it if you want to drive a car on public roads.


4 posted on 10/15/2010 5:16:11 AM PDT by Wolfie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag

Automobile insurance only has to be purchased if you drive.


5 posted on 10/15/2010 5:17:10 AM PDT by conservativebuckeye
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

I would have thought that exempting hard-up corporations like McDonald’s from covering their workers would have cleared a lot of this up.


6 posted on 10/15/2010 5:17:31 AM PDT by Wolfie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ShadowAce

Of course, show up at a garage without insurance or money to cover the car repair, and you’ll be shown the door. Show up at an ER in the same straits...they’ll treat you, and then spread the cost out to everybody esle.


7 posted on 10/15/2010 5:20:53 AM PDT by Wolfie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife
Pence is a bit too cocky about this. What SCOTUS decides boils down to how Anthony Kennedy feels about the issue at that particular time. Although Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Roberts seem to be pretty good at persuading him.
8 posted on 10/15/2010 5:21:43 AM PDT by Hugin (Remember the first rule of gunfighting...have a gun..-- Col. Jeff Cooper)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hugin

Like they turned over Campaign Finance Reform.


9 posted on 10/15/2010 5:26:54 AM PDT by tommyboy (We'll do it live)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

>>you cannot compel the American people to purchase health insurance just as a function of being an American citizen.”

But they are NOT doing that (for ALL Americans).

Muslims are exempt from having to purchase it!

(5) EXEMPTIONS FROM INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS.
—In the case of an individual who is seeking an exemption certificate under section 1311(d)(4)(H) from any requirement or penalty imposed by section 5000A, the following information: (A) In the case of an individual seeking ex emption based on the individual’s status as a member of an exempt religious sect or division, as a member of a health care sharing ministry, as an Indian, or as an individual eligible for a hardship exemption,

‘‘(2) RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS.—
‘‘(A) RELIGIOUS CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION.—Such term shall not include any individual for any month if such individual has in effect an exemption under section 1311(d)(4)(H) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which certifies that such individual is a member of a recognized religious sect or division thereof described in section 1402(g)(1) and an adherent of established tenets or teachings of such sect or division as described in such section.

(c) Section 5000A(d)(2)(A) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as added by section 1501(b) of this Act, is amended to read as follows:
‘‘(A) RELIGIOUS CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION.—Such term shall not include any individual for any month if such individual has in effect an exemption under section 1311(d)(4)(H) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which certifies that such individual is—
‘‘(i) a member of a recognized religious sect or division thereof which is described in section 1402(g)(1), and
‘‘(ii) an adherent of established tenets or teachings of such sect or division as described in such section.’’.


10 posted on 10/15/2010 5:29:55 AM PDT by Future Useless Eater (Chicago politics = corrupted capitalism = takeover by COMMUNity-ISM)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag

STATES mandate auto insurance!

You must buy insurance to cover the cost of causing damage to others on public highways. You are not required to insure your own vehicle against damage caused by you.

You can choose one of many insurance carriers.

You can choose your deductible and limits.

A car finance company will require you to cover the cost of the loan with insurance, or you can pay cash & buy your own vehicle.

You can also ride a bike or use public transportation.

The choice is yours!


11 posted on 10/15/2010 5:29:55 AM PDT by sodpoodle (Despair; man's surrender. Laughter; God's redemption.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Hugin

What a shame that it boils down to partisan politics and not what it truly is...a violation of Constitutional rights.


12 posted on 10/15/2010 5:30:42 AM PDT by woweeitsme
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag

well first off it’s not the federal government that mandates auto insurance, and each state has it’s own guidelines. If you own your car out right, you can usually just buy insurance that covers your damages against someone else. If you have financed your vehicle, the finance company wants you to insure your own vehicle to protect them against loss. The same with a house you may own. If you own it outright, you don’t need insurance....if however you have a mortgage, the loan company wants insurance against their potential loss.


13 posted on 10/15/2010 5:30:57 AM PDT by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Wolfie
Show up at an ER in the same straits...they’ll treat you, and then spread the cost out to everybody esle.

I'm sorry--I can't tell. Is this a complaint?

14 posted on 10/15/2010 5:33:22 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

What would it take for large blocks of us to become “a member of a health care sharing ministry” and thereby be qualified for exemption?


15 posted on 10/15/2010 5:33:58 AM PDT by Future Useless Eater (Chicago politics = corrupted capitalism = takeover by COMMUNity-ISM)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag

You are not forced to drive a car. You are forced to buy medical insurance just because you are alive.


16 posted on 10/15/2010 5:34:33 AM PDT by goldi (')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

Legally, wouldn’t anyone who can show their country of origin is INDIA be afforded an exemption? The law does not say “native American Indian”, just “Indian”

(5) EXEMPTIONS FROM INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY REQUIREMENTS.
—In the case of an individual who is seeking an exemption certificate under section 1311(d)(4)(H) from any requirement or penalty imposed by section 5000A, the following information: (A) In the case of an individual seeking ex emption based on the individual’s status as a member of an exempt religious sect or division, as a member of a health care sharing ministry, as an Indian, or as an individual eligible for a hardship exemption,


17 posted on 10/15/2010 5:38:02 AM PDT by Future Useless Eater (Chicago politics = corrupted capitalism = takeover by COMMUNity-ISM)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag
If this is true, how can the government mandate that automobile insurance be purchased?

What Federal Statute requires me to have auto insurance?

18 posted on 10/15/2010 5:41:00 AM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife
The Supreme Court should Overturn Obamacare just because of all the lies told: you can keep your health insurance, it's not a tax, it's a tax, would not add one penny to the deficit, cut the cost of a typical family’s premium by up to $2,500 a year, no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions, etc.

Use this as an example to stop lying to the voters. We need Truth in Taxation.

19 posted on 10/15/2010 5:41:26 AM PDT by Lockbox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Future Useless Eater

The reason that noone read the bill, besides its length,

was their understanding of the “granting of discretion”.

That’s all they need to know anymore - who gets the power of discretion.

“Discretion”, of course, just means that the decision making power is vested in one person or committee, and that person or committee can decide based on various biases whether to grant waivers or punishments or withhold services.

No... this wouldn’t lead to corruption! No way! Especially not with benign elitist leftists!


20 posted on 10/15/2010 5:42:09 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: ShadowAce

Just give hospitals the right to turn away the un-insured.


21 posted on 10/15/2010 5:43:16 AM PDT by Wolfie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Lockbox

I wonder if the “ruling class” is just going to ignore the lack of the severability clause.

In their haste to pass this without reading it,
they forgot to put in severability.

Severability clauses protect the rest of the law if any part of it is ruled unconstitutional.
According to the law, if any part of it is unconstitutional, and it’s not severable, the whole thing is null and void.

I doubt they’ll let that happen, though, despite what the law says.


22 posted on 10/15/2010 5:44:03 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag
If this is true, how can the government mandate that automobile insurance be purchased?

For one, the Federal Government doesn't require auto insurance, the States do and having your insurance coverage being good across State Lines, is covered under the Commerce Clause in the Constitution.

23 posted on 10/15/2010 5:46:01 AM PDT by fedupjohn ("Socialism works great until you run out of other people's money!"...Margaret Thatcher.. Palin 2012)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag

It’s the state, not the feds mandating that you buy car insurance if you drive on the public roads. If you don’t buy insurance, most states have an uninsured fee that you must pay.


24 posted on 10/15/2010 5:46:55 AM PDT by republicangel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Wolfie

Actually, they can’t mandate that you buy auto insurance—the mandate is for financial responsibility, not insurance.


25 posted on 10/15/2010 5:47:32 AM PDT by dinodino
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Wolfie
hmm. Interesting thought. Fire departments would be exempt from that provision (rescue, emt, etc) due to the fact that they are supported through taxes.

That could mean no more gov't subsidy/grants/support of hospitals, turning them all into private enterprises and for-profit businesses. Of course, the way you phrased it would also mean they'd have the ability/option to go ahead and treat without insurance, so we could still have non-profit/charity hospitals.

We could compromise, and require all hospitals to treat life-threatening emergencies and then transfer them to other ones that would accept them. Wait....

26 posted on 10/15/2010 5:48:44 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag
If this is true, how can the government mandate that automobile insurance be purchased?

Just askin ...

They only mandate that you buy insurance if you want to drive a car after you receive a gummint issued drivers license.

If you have no car, no mandate.

In the health care mandate, everyone is required to purchase, just because you are alive.

27 posted on 10/15/2010 5:52:14 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages - In Honor of Standing Wolf)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ShadowAce; All

Exactly!

And this is the argument we have to have ready when the Libs come back at us.

BTW, to the other posters, I recognize the State v Fed thing.

This was actually a rhetorical quesiton ;-)


28 posted on 10/15/2010 5:52:47 AM PDT by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

Sure they will. Just like they did when Campaign Finance Reform was brought to them... (though, they did eventually get it right, when the Gub’mint argued it could suppress books...).


29 posted on 10/15/2010 5:54:30 AM PDT by Little Ray (The Gods of the Copybook Heading, with terror and slaughter return!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Future Useless Eater
What would it take for large blocks of us to become “a member of a health care sharing ministry” and thereby be qualified for exemption?

Considering the fact that one does not have to have an 'exclusive' association with any of the named groups, this will be their downfall if it gets that far.

The government would be in the business of 'establishing a religion' if it mandates that you must claim only one affiliation.

30 posted on 10/15/2010 5:58:16 AM PDT by whodathunkit
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag

People who don’t own cars or who don’t drive do not have to putchase auto insurance or pay a tax to provide it for those who do drive.

Big difference.


31 posted on 10/15/2010 6:02:35 AM PDT by Reagan69 (Let me know when those health insurance premiums go down.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Future Useless Eater
Hmm, that's interesting. What constitutes "Indian" (or Native American)?

I can document a Native American in my family tree, about 6 generations ago.

32 posted on 10/15/2010 6:09:43 AM PDT by justlurking (The only remedy for a bad guy with a gun is a good WOMAN (Sgt. Kimberly Munley) with a gun)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag
The requirement to have auto insurance is a state-by-state order, and the several states are specifically empowered thereto by the 10th Amendment. The same is NOT true of the Kenyan's diktat regarding medical insurance.

Just tellin'.

33 posted on 10/15/2010 6:10:34 AM PDT by SAJ (Zerobama -- a phony and a prick, therefore a dildo.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Hugin
What SCOTUS decides boils down to how Anthony Kennedy feels about the issue at that particular time. Although Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Roberts seem to be pretty good at persuading him.

You're right and that's why I'm reasonably optimistic. Kennedy is the justice who wrote the Court's decision in the Citizens United case, meaning he's the one the Illegal called out in the SOTU speech that criticised that case. The Obamacare case will be Kennedy's big chance to get even for that insult.

34 posted on 10/15/2010 6:31:14 AM PDT by libstripper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife; xzins; blue-duncan; wmfights; Forest Keeper
The Supreme Court is likely to overturn key elements of it, says Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind.

If the Supreme Court has ruled that the President does not have a line item veto power, then why does the Supreme Court think it has the power of a line item veto? If a 2200 page bill has any provision in it that it deemed to be unconstitutional, then the entire 2200 pages should be deemed invalid.

35 posted on 10/15/2010 6:31:54 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: justlurking

“What constitutes “Indian” (or Native American)?”

My grandmother’s grandfather was full-blood Cherokee. So am I exempt?


36 posted on 10/15/2010 6:46:42 AM PDT by PastorBooks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe; truthandlife; xzins; blue-duncan; wmfights; Forest Keeper

One program I watched yesterday, and I don’t remember which, said that taking out the required insurance portion of this bill guts the entire bill, since that is the way it is funded.

However, I don’t see how that would affect the stealth gold purchase portion, or the age 26 on parent’s insurance provision, or the pre-existing conditions provision, etc.

I’d like it all to be killed, but I tend to agree with you. Killing one provision won’t, but should, kill the entire thing.


37 posted on 10/15/2010 6:49:32 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: xzins; truthandlife; blue-duncan; wmfights; Forest Keeper

“Killing one provision won’t, but should, kill the entire thing.”

Have you no respect for the gods, lesser in the small outland high places to the supreme temple of the gods? They can do anything with impunity and no created being can question them. They serve for life and the good is oft interred with their bones but the evil lives after.


38 posted on 10/15/2010 7:05:28 AM PDT by blue-duncan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: blue-duncan; P-Marlowe

The fly-over gods vs the supreme temple gods

Let us tear down their high places, burn their bones on the altars, and scatter their dust to the winds.

The un-deification plans of Hezekiah and Josiah updated.

It bought peace for their time.


39 posted on 10/15/2010 7:11:38 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: xzins

They did not insert some sort of legal provision which would permit survival of any remainder that is not directly eliminated. My understanding is that if one feature goes down the entire bill is crash and burn.


40 posted on 10/15/2010 7:34:40 AM PDT by magna carta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: ShadowAce

“They can only do that for people who decide to use government services and products (the roads).”

And they will say we all use hospitals, ems, etc,,, who cannot refuse to treat us. They will back it up with huge stats of uninsured who use emergency rooms as primary car doctors. And just like that,,, hospitals will become the equivalent of public roads.

They also have the precedent that forces us to purchase their retirement system, social security.

If we are counting on the supreme court to save us from a giant expansion of government, we are screwed.


41 posted on 10/15/2010 7:39:19 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: magna carta

“They did not insert some sort of legal provision which would permit survival of any remainder”

The dictatorship of the proletariat will simply rule that the rest of the bill survives, and will call it a new precedent. Currently, they decide what they want to do,, and make it appear justified by framing their political decision in constitutional wording. They havent been constrained by rules for a long time. Kelo is a good example,,, campaign finance is another.

The “rules” say soldiers get to vote too. Rules are only a constraint for us,, not for the oligarchy.


42 posted on 10/15/2010 7:47:14 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: xzins
The un-deification plans of Hezekiah and Josiah updated.

It bought peace for their time

Both Hezekiah and Josiah suffered major reverses in those days, as well. Hezekiah was nearly overthrown by the Assyrians (lost everything but his capital, albeit temporarily), and Josiah got himself shot trying to stop Pharaho Necho from going to battle with Nebuchadnezzar. On the way back home, Necho deposed Josiah's successor and installed a his own puppet. Then Nebuchadnessar came and installed his OWN puppet.

Interesting times, for sure. Not what I would consider "peace".

43 posted on 10/15/2010 7:48:28 AM PDT by thulldud (Is it "alter or abolish" time yet?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe

“then why does the Supreme Court think it has the power of a line item veto?”

Masrbury vs Madison. They grabbed powers not given to them,, and have never looked back. They merely would need to vote 5 to 4 that they possess such power,,, and thats that.

Congress could starve them financially, or work to pass an amendment to the constitution, but they won’t.


44 posted on 10/15/2010 7:50:40 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: goldi

“You are forced to buy medical insurance just because you are alive.”

####

And the nanny-state reply would be:

“If you don’t have health insurance, then society has to pick up the cost of your medical care”

To which the response ought to be: “No we don’t.”

Now the ugly truth of the matter, is that these people without health insurance, and thus conceivably without health care, would be allowed to suffer and/or die.

If that is not sufficient motivation to personally finance your OWN health insurance and medical care, I don’t know what is.


45 posted on 10/15/2010 7:55:00 AM PDT by EyeGuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag

The federal government does not regulate that, but the states do. Each state regulates the driving age, etc. If the states decidedly independently to mandate the health insurance coverage, then there would be less recourse in the Suprme Court. But, you’d have the option of moving to a different state, if you wanted.


46 posted on 10/15/2010 8:05:34 AM PDT by Shery (in APO Land)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Blueflag

There is a difference in what the *federal* government can do vs. what *state* governments can do. The states are supposed to have fairly broad and general powers especially over the areas of health & safety. The federal government is supposed to have *limited* powers.

Other posters have also made good points about the differences.


47 posted on 10/15/2010 8:47:30 AM PDT by ConjunctionJunction (I can see November from my house!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

RE: Supreme Court Will Overturn Obamacare

Repeat after me -— JUSTICE ANTHONY KENNEDY. It will all depend on which side of the bed he wakes up in.


48 posted on 10/15/2010 8:53:23 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

No more wishful thinking from conservatives. Do or die.


49 posted on 10/15/2010 9:32:57 AM PDT by dr_who
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: truthandlife

If Obamacare is completely tossed there will likely be a spate of civil unrest, protests, looting, vandalism, etc.


50 posted on 10/15/2010 9:37:55 AM PDT by GSWarrior
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-54 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson