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A Horrid Crime, a Dishonest Debate
National Review ^ | January 11, 2011

Posted on 01/11/2011 7:27:14 AM PST by La Lydia

...a deranged 25-year-old Jordanian named Sirhan Sirhan slithered through a crowd toward Sen. Robert Kennedy...Sirhan shot and killed Kennedy, wounding several others. The ensuing investigation showed that Sirhan was a raging anti-Semite who’d become fixated on Senator Kennedy because of the latter’s support for Israel.

Two people profoundly impressed by the assassination were the terrorists Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. In 1974, they dedicated their own communist manifesto, Prairie Fire, to Sirhan, hailing him as a courageous political prisoner. In the book itself, they and the rest of the Weathermen went on to identify themselves proudly as “communist underground in the United States” who were determined to lead a violent leftist revolution...Their rhetoric, their heedless dehumanization of those they maligned as ideological “enemies,” was coupled with acts of horrific violence, including a plot to mass-murder U.S. soldiers in Fort Dix...

This history is one the modern Left, in which Ayers and Dohrn remain icons, would rather you’d forget. Today, instead, is for politicizing the wanton savagery of another deranged radical, 22-year-old Jared Lee Loughner, who stunned the nation by slithering through a Tucson crowd and unleashing a 31-shot fusillade... Already, we have learned a great deal about the assassin. He is a deeply disturbed pot-head. In order to give meaning to the addling emptiness of his life, he turned to the anti-Semitic rants of Adolph Hitler, Marx’s Communist Manifesto, the occult, and what appears to have been an obsession with Representative Giffords...Some acquaintances and schoolmates who’d endured his tirades over the years predicted he’d come to an end just like this.

...the instantaneous reaction of the hard Left, Obama’s base, was to politicize the Tucson atrocity as a natural, an inevitable, result of conservative ideology, enthusiasm for immigration-law enforcement and gun ownership...and dissent from Obama’s policies...

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: giffords; media; obama; theleft
Just damn
1 posted on 01/11/2011 7:27:19 AM PST by La Lydia
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To: La Lydia
I love that the leftist police chief is all over the news as a Democrat blasting Limbaugh, Palin and so forth. Now we find he knew of a couple of more other death threats reported to his department by the murder, yet no one flagged the SOB’s records to be denied a gun.

Seems to me the squeakiest wheel (the sheriff) was the most responsible because of not following up on this deranged young man.

2 posted on 01/11/2011 7:35:51 AM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: La Lydia
Dishonest Stupid debate. Yet, there shouldn't be any debate at all. Oh, when politics can be invoked the politics nausea goes on forever.
3 posted on 01/11/2011 7:36:00 AM PST by oyez (The difference in genius and stupidity is that genius has limits.)
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To: La Lydia

Excellent article. Nicely summarizes the absurdity of the leftist spin, and puts it in its proper historical context.


4 posted on 01/11/2011 7:41:42 AM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: La Lydia
I think we're missing the larger issue here.

What we are dealing with on the left goes well beyond, in most cases, a conscious desire to gain political points by pinning this on the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, and Glen Beck.

If you read what the liberals are saying, or talk to someone you know who dislikes the Tea Party, you will discover that they truly believe this stuff. They are impervious to details about what Loughner believed, or the truth about Arizona immigration law not allowing profiling, or the non-violent nature of the Tea Party and conservative activism. They don't care. They have their preconceptions of the Tea Party, and because the Tea Party stands in opposition to their viewpoints of government as a force for good, nothing will get in the way - which is hardly surprising, given that decades of recorded government failure has failed to shake their opinion of government.

And like any such belief system founded on myth and emotionality, it is almost completely impervious to logic, fact and reason. It is malignant and all-consuming.

So when you rebut these statements blaming the right for the Giffords shooting, keep in mind that your audience for the rebuttal is not the person making the comments or writing the columns, as you would have just as much luck trying to talk a jihadist out of his radical Islamist views as you would convincing the likes of Paul Krugman that the Tea Party is not responsibile for the Arizona shooting.

Instead, realize you are writing for any fair-minded neutral person who is trying to make up their own mind about the matter. With that in mind, try to write calmly and present the facts. Avoid name-calling. Stick to the facts as we know them. Allow the frothing on the other side to discredit their case, don't resort to it yourself.

As mad as this utterly unprincipled attack makes me, I have to realize that anger cannot change the minds of the diehard leftists here and convince them of our resolve - nothing can. You can only sway those in the middle, and they want what the left is not providing here - namely, substance and calmly-stated reason. We have the law and the facts on our side, we don't need to pound the table to make our point.

5 posted on 01/11/2011 7:50:00 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: A CA Guy

Nervous butt-covering, clear and simple, on the part of the sheriff.


6 posted on 01/11/2011 7:52:21 AM PST by La Lydia
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To: La Lydia

This is the sheriff that has stated he will NOT enforce Arizona SB1070 requiring law enforcement to check legal status when they are pulled over for another violation. HE SHOULD BE RECALLED, but then Tucson is a leftist enclave.


7 posted on 01/11/2011 7:58:25 AM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: La Lydia
Exactly, day two we find out his department KNEW of two or more other people this kook made death threats on.

Did he send the kook for a 36 hour observation?
Did he flag the kook's records so he would be denied a gun?

We are finding out this guy did no fulfill his duty, and in addition he now goes all over the press saying BS that is so ridiculous that the defense will surely call this Sheriff as a witness for the murderer.
This sheriff is obscene.

8 posted on 01/11/2011 7:58:37 AM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: La Lydia

This is the sheriff that has stated he will NOT enforce Arizona SB1070 requiring law enforcement to check legal status when they are pulled over for another violation. HE SHOULD BE RECALLED, but then Tucson is a leftist enclave.


9 posted on 01/11/2011 7:58:37 AM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: La Lydia

This is the sheriff that has stated he will NOT enforce Arizona SB1070 requiring law enforcement to check legal status when they are pulled over for another violation. HE SHOULD BE RECALLED, but then Tucson is a leftist enclave.


10 posted on 01/11/2011 7:58:42 AM PST by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: A CA Guy

That’s the Sheriff of Pima County, Clarence “The Dupe” Dupnik, not a police chief.

He sounds like a typical obamabot. And by bashing his own great State and failing to defend her from the barbarian invasion from across her southern border, he is a traitor as well.


11 posted on 01/11/2011 8:01:36 AM PST by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: dirtboy
Instead, realize you are writing for any fair-minded neutral person who is trying to make up their own mind about the matter. With that in mind, try to write calmly and present the facts. Avoid name-calling. Stick to the facts as we know them. Allow the frothing on the other side to discredit their case, don't resort to it yourself.

The shame here is that your terrific post will receive far fewer replies than the ones that are name-calling.
12 posted on 01/11/2011 8:02:02 AM PST by kenavi (The good ol' US of A: 57 state laboratories for the future.)
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To: dirtboy

They must be isolated, exposed, and overcome. Peaceful-Coexistance and Detante only contain them for so long. Sooner the better that the wall is torn down. They will have to be confronted head on. We have them on the run but must not let them re-group.


13 posted on 01/11/2011 8:05:40 AM PST by screaminsunshine (Surfers Rule)
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To: A CA Guy; All
The insane Tuscon murderer’s parents were democrat contributors: So this democrat/marxist sheriff didn't put their son in jail.
14 posted on 01/11/2011 8:06:34 AM PST by Democrat_media (Why is no government creating a product we can hold in our hands like a cell phone..?)
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To: La Lydia

This is a GREAT article! Thanks for posting it.

Now the muslim gangster obama will be visiting Tucson to exploit the horrific assassination by a deranged individual that took place there.

However, where his is going IS Arizona, the center of resistance to all obama’s evil policies. Hopefully, the local citizens will act in such a way as to make obama’s visit backfire, and totally discredit him in the eyes of the entire world.

I pray that that will happen.


15 posted on 01/11/2011 8:08:03 AM PST by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: A CA Guy; All
The insane Tuscon murderer’s parents were democrat contributors: So this democrat/marxist sheriff didn't put their son in jail when it should have arrested him for numerous complaints.
16 posted on 01/11/2011 8:09:35 AM PST by Democrat_media (Why is no government creating a product we can hold in our hands like a cell phone..?)
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To: screaminsunshine
They must be isolated, exposed, and overcome. Peaceful-Coexistance and Detante only contain them for so long. Sooner the better that the wall is torn down. They will have to be confronted head on. We have them on the run but must not let them re-group.

They are exposing themselves. Do you think those in the middle trying to make up their minds want to see a food fight where we join in? What is to be gained by resorting to the level of name-calling that the hard left is engaged in? My dad has a saying - never wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig likes it. The left WANTS us to get in the pig pen with them. It is their home field. They WANT this to descend to endless name-calling and personal attacks, as that is their only currency in debate.

Better off to show the audience that the pig is, just that, a pig in a stye and you ain't getting in there with him.

17 posted on 01/11/2011 8:09:49 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: okie01

Ping to post 5.


18 posted on 01/11/2011 8:14:06 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: Cheerio

Actually, Tucson is not a leftist enclave. It is mixed.

That is why the two recent Congressional elections (the district lines separate the east and west sides of Tucson, and include additional territory) were so close. (Arguably at least one of these elections, between McClung and Grijalva, was decided by massive vote fraud).


19 posted on 01/11/2011 8:14:36 AM PST by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: dirtboy

I do not see any of that on the Right. We must just keep doing what we are doing. Telling the truth. To the Media truthtelling is name calling. You are falling for the spin. Snap out of it.


20 posted on 01/11/2011 8:15:55 AM PST by screaminsunshine (Surfers Rule)
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To: screaminsunshine
I do not see any of that on the Right.

There is a fair amount of it here on FR. People are angry, and I can't blame them, I'm mad too. But that is exactly what the left wants - an endless food fight over this.

We must just keep doing what we are doing. Telling the truth. To the Media truthtelling is name calling.

We're mixing in a lot of namecalling of our own with the truth.

You are falling for the spin. Snap out of it.

I am doing no such thing. I know what I have been reading, both here and on MSM comments pages. Some folks on the right are responding with facts, but others are descending to the level of those flinging baseless charges from the left. I am simply asking folks to stick to what can be proven and use rational debate here. The left lives to drag the debate into the gutter. Keep it out of there, and we will starve them of the slime they crave.

21 posted on 01/11/2011 8:22:18 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: kenavi; dirtboy
The shame here is that your terrific post will receive far fewer replies than the ones that are name-calling.

I agree -- it's a very bumpworthy post.

It takes serious effort not to pound the table when dealing with people who are totally reason-proof, but it does usually pay off. Those who are watching take a lot of stuff into consideration when judging the credibility of what you're saying, including your demeanor.

22 posted on 01/11/2011 8:23:21 AM PST by Yardstick
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To: kenavi; dirtboy

Not so, kenavi - I at least was planning to reply long before your post spurred me on.

dirtboy, thanks for a very salient, and articulate post. Michael Savage was the first, I believe, to make the observation that “Liberalism is a mental disorder.” This is true.

In my field, psychiatry, a delusion is simply define as, “A fixed, false belief.” It is “fixed,” and cannot be swayed by proof or logic. We don’t even try when such beliefs are firmly held. They are not amenable to reason.

Whether it be a religious fanatic or a patient with schizophrenia or a Liberal, there is no sense trying to persuade them. This is repeatedly clear when talk show or Fox hosts have liberals on, out of some bizarre need to appear “fair and balanced,” or in some hopeless crusade to change their minds. It is a sign of foolishness on the part of the hosts, and the better ones know better.


23 posted on 01/11/2011 8:29:09 AM PST by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: Yardstick
It takes serious effort not to pound the table when dealing with people who are totally reason-proof, but it does usually pay off.

As the old maxim in the legal profession goes, if you don't have the facts on your side, argue the law, and if you don't have the law on your side, pound on the table.

We don't need to pound on the table here. The fact is that the Tea Party has no history of violence. The fact is that the left uses combat metaphors in politics just as often, if not more often, than the right. The fact is that the shooter is a complete nutcase with nearly incoherent poltical views who seems to have had a personal vendetta against Giffords that predated Palin and the Tea Party. And the open question is, why wasn't more done to get the shooter into the criminal system when he was threatening people - an action that would have blocked him via the Brady check from buying that Glock, as he would have had something for the database search to turn up?

I have stated just those points in person with people who don't pay a lot of attention to politics, and they resonate far more than just saying the libruls are idiots.

24 posted on 01/11/2011 8:29:28 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

For example in the war of words. Calling for a toning down of political speech. The 1st definition of the word Campaign is a military operation in time of war. What would you call the election? A domestic contingency operation? Do not fall for the old traps. They are on a slippery slope to total defeat. I say pour it on. We can no longer have comity with them they must be defeated and totally discredited.
Calling a Socialist a Socialist is not Vitriol.


25 posted on 01/11/2011 8:32:31 AM PST by screaminsunshine (Surfers Rule)
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To: dirtboy

Really nice post. I totally agree.


26 posted on 01/11/2011 8:35:54 AM PST by dforest
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To: screaminsunshine
Calling for a toning down of political speech.

I diagree with that. And that is not what I am calling for here. I am saying that in our responses to the left, we should stick to a higher level.

I say pour it on. We can no longer have comity with them they must be defeated and totally discredited.

And I think we can apply political jujitsu against them here - use their own rantings to discredit them, something that is hard to do if you are ranting yourself.

Calling a Socialist a Socialist is not Vitriol.

What the left is doing here has nothing to do with Socialism per se. Labels such as Socialism, IMO, should be used specifically in response to proposals to socialize the private sector. That is my point here. The left will throw in all kinds of completely unrelated crap into this debate - if you haven't seen it yet, look up the email exchange a Freeper had with Danziger, and check out his final response. That was a classic example of what I am talking about, in how we on the right should pursue this debate - Danzinger came across in the end looking like a complete ass, and the Freeper looked rational.

I'll find the link and post it in this thread.

27 posted on 01/11/2011 8:39:29 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: screaminsunshine; indylindy; dagogo redux; Yardstick; okie01

My bad, it was a blogger, not sure if it was a Freeper (if he’s not he should be) - this is EXACTLY the right approach here - note that when Danziger was asked to prove his assertions, he resorted to baseless name-calling.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2654798/posts


28 posted on 01/11/2011 8:46:09 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

Well fine tone it down. You can go the “Compassionate Conservative” route. I expect you will have about the same result as Bush and the prior Rino Congress. But good luck. I do not rant. I tell the truth as I see it. In my opinion the Communists have taken total control of the Democrat Party. It is one of their major goals. They must be fought. Co-existance will not work. The best weapon we have is the Constitution. That is why they fear it so much. But all ant-socialist action is welcome around here.


29 posted on 01/11/2011 8:46:27 AM PST by screaminsunshine (Surfers Rule)
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To: dirtboy

The last resort of the befuddled socialist. It is an automatic defense mechanism when the logic center of the brains starts to function.


30 posted on 01/11/2011 8:48:31 AM PST by screaminsunshine (Surfers Rule)
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To: dirtboy

Yeah, I saw that post last night. The blogger completely destroyed the cartoonist by just playing it cool. He got the cartoonist to self immolate.


31 posted on 01/11/2011 8:51:56 AM PST by Yardstick
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To: Yardstick

And for anyone reading that, it drove home that the cartoonist had no facts to support his opinions, only baseless slurs.


32 posted on 01/11/2011 8:56:56 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: screaminsunshine; dirtboy
For example in the war of words. Calling for a toning down of political speech...

The left and the right have totally different definitions for "toning down political speech". To the left, it means nothing more than shutting us up. To the right, it should mean "turn down the volume" -- shouting and screaming isn't getting us anywhere.

They are on a slippery slope to total defeat. I say pour it on.

With every wild incoherent claim, the left indeed slides further down that slope. I agree: pour it on -- with calm resolve. Don't indulge them with wild incoherent claims in response. We're winning this thing -- not because we're louder than they are (we don't have the MSM on our side, after all) -- we're winning it because we're right.

We can no longer have comity with them they must be defeated and totally discredited.

Absolutely true. Squashed like a bug is the way I've put it.

Calling a Socialist a Socialist is not Vitriol.

Of course, it's not. It's the truth. But that doesn't (necessarily) make them an "a dirty, rotten, anti-American Lenin-loving Commie".

The truth is sufficient.

Actually, I believe you and dirt are on the same wave length. You are urging a vigorous and honest defense of our principles -- with the emphasis on vigorous. dirt is likewise urging a vigorous and honest defense -- with the emphasis on honest.

No, we shouldn't get down in the dirt with them. Indeed, it's the fact that we haven't gone incoherent, even violent, that has driven them toward ever more mindless incoherence...and actual violence.

In my opinion, the Giffords Affair has been an exceptionally revealing episode. Dupnik, the media, Democrat officeholders and operatives have all lashed out wildly -- trying to make political points. Anybody in the middle who is paying even moderate attention realizes Loughner was a deeply disturbed young man who shouldn't have been on the street. Politics had nothing to do with it.

Accordingly, every report, every wild claim, has cost the left another measure of credibility. They are hurting themselves.

And that helps us...

And, now, back to your regularly scheduled thread.

33 posted on 01/11/2011 10:12:06 AM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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To: dirtboy
Thanks very much for the Danziger link.

The inner-most soul of the left makes itself known:

Ed. We are not in court. I have been watching the development of this combination of loons and opportunists since it started. The Tea Party, the very name is ridiculous. Crazed fat people tortured by their lack of success in life, following the absolute worst of our politicians. Palin, Angel, Quayle’s rotten kid. These people are your choice for anything? The whole thing is based on unreality. Don’t you understand? And Mcveigh was reading that crazy shit from the enbd times or whagtever it is called.

In the end the government has GOT to work. We are in competition with the world. Car companies don’t compete. nation now compete. And these asses want to go back to the 1700′s. I’ve written enough. The whole thing is probably unstoppable except with another dumb war. That’s what usually happens. You can have it.

Thank you, Mr. Danziger, for offering your true feelings...

34 posted on 01/11/2011 10:23:29 AM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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To: okie01

TX. We should never make claims. But it is OK to take known facts to a logical conclusion. The facts I know and the circumstantial evidence allow me to believe beyond a reasonable doubt that. At the very least Obama is a Marxist community agitator. Obama has not changed his mind. His goal is the destruction of as much of the constitution as possible in the time he has. He believes the Ten Planks of communism are a better way to go.
Many in the media consider themselves to be comrades in arms with Obama. They consider themselves to be more ‘Citizens of the World’ than Citizens of the Republic. And on and on.


35 posted on 01/11/2011 10:28:03 AM PST by screaminsunshine (Surfers Rule)
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To: screaminsunshine
At the very least Obama is a Marxist community agitator.

Not a proven fact. But readily deducible.

It's amazing how many on the left would say, "What's wrong with that?"

I believe the only issue we're talking about it here is a.) the volume at which one offers the deduction and b.) the need to accompany it with "the facts and the circumstantial evidence" that support the assertion.

36 posted on 01/11/2011 10:55:45 AM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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To: screaminsunshine; dirtboy; djf
In my opinion the Communists have taken total control of the Democrat Party. It is one of their major goals. They must be fought. Co-existance will not work.

Only the blind, i.e. moderates and independents, can't see that marxists are in control of the Democrat Party. Persuading moderates and independents needs to be our focus. The liberals, aka marxists, are mostly beyond our reach, but whatever term we call them, it's irrelevant to the moderates and independents. It's just another ad hominem to them.

Self identified liberals are only a fifth of the electorate. IMHO, they can be made irrelevant if we stick to the facts.

Tucson shooting suspect Jared Loughner appears to have posted bizarre messages

The statement said that between February and September last year, campus police were called five times to deal with disruptions Loughner caused in classrooms and libraries. On Sept. 29, the college said, it discovered that Loughner had posted a YouTube video he had made on the campus.

--snip--

On Oct. 4, during a meeting with Loughner, his parents and college administrators, he agreed to withdraw, the college said. School officials told him he could return only if he obtained a clearance certifying that "in the opinion of a mental health professional, his presence at the College does not present a danger to himself or others."

Sheriff: Accused Shooter 'Unhinged,' Made Threats

AZ Suspected Gunman Passed FBI Backround Check

Just present the facts. The only thing the left is doing is making fools of themselves.

37 posted on 01/11/2011 11:34:35 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: okie01
Crazed fat people tortured by their lack of success in life, following the absolute worst of our politicians.

Funny, most of the folks I saw at Tea Party events looked quite successful. I talked to some who were small business owners. And the guy whose campaign I volunteered for this year, who was a typical Tea Party-type candidate, has built his dad's small plumbing business into a regional distributorship and had enough coin to put a half-million into his own campaign.

Yet another example of the left having absolutely no idea what the Tea Party is about - and having no desire to make any effort to find out.

38 posted on 01/11/2011 11:35:02 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: neverdem
It's just another ad hominem to them.

Yeah, and then the left will drag you into an interminable debate over the meaning of marxist and socialist.

And the average Joe in the middle really doesn't understand the concepts anyway and glazes over at that point.

But talk about spending money you don't have, and frittering away the future, and they can relate to that.

As well as the problems in dealing with nutcases of all flavors.

39 posted on 01/11/2011 11:42:08 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy
I talked to some who were small business owners.

More than any other class, the Tea Party is a creature of small business. And the Republican Party is the only political instrument small business has.

My sis, the social worker, still cleaves to the notion that the GOP is the party of fat cats, inherited wealth and big business.

Patiently, I explain to her that Wall Street and the trust fund babies are almost unanimously in bed with the Democrats, while big business will merely support whoever's in power.

And that the backbone of the GOP today are the car-dealers, the druggists, the independent bankers, the oil field supply operators and the wheat farmers right there in her home town. I.e., the people that show up for Tea Parties in Hays, Kansas.

She, like a good little liberal, denies the obvious -- because it doesn't agree with what she "knows".

In 2008, McCain carried Ellis County by 66-32. It has not occurred to her that the 32 is essentially her and the faculty at Fort Hays State. And the 66 is everybody else.

As you noted, arguing these points with liberals is generally pointless. The argument is for everybody else.

But, importantly, small business is the very backbone of the Tea Party and the Republican base. And, if Obama has his way, we'll become an endangered species...

40 posted on 01/11/2011 12:05:01 PM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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To: dirtboy
What you advise is exactly what conservatives have always done. The Left is allowed to tell any lie, attack anyone on our side and flood the entire culture with mockery and ridicule of conservatism. The Right ALWAYS says, "Oh, well...it'll all work out. They're not bad people, we just disagree", and we go back to work or watch football.

You know, at some point there really does have to be a line drawn and a battle engaged. Backing down and playing nice just convinces "the middle trying to make up their minds", that we must be wrong or we'd fight back.

Of course, your proposition that there are still "moderates" who are undecided, is ridiculous.

41 posted on 01/11/2011 12:24:02 PM PST by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Deb
What you advise is exactly what conservatives have always done.

Always? I've seen plenty of inside baseball kinds of posts for this story and many others, replete with name-calling and attacks. That is what the left wants.

Of course, your proposition that there are still "moderates" who are undecided, is ridiculous.

I think you need to get out more. :^)

Go outside the realms of internet debate and there are millions who really don't pay close attention to every political story. They'll pay attention to this one because it's big news. And they will read the likes of Krugman and maybe some conservative commentary on the MSM website running the Krugman column. Conservatives need to present the facts and leave the spittle to the liberals.

42 posted on 01/11/2011 3:34:44 PM PST by dirtboy
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To: dagogo redux; Yardstick; dirtboy
Not so, kenavi - I at least was planning to reply long before your post spurred me on.

I am pleased to see that I was wrong. These posts are golden. Thanks again dirtboy, thanks all.
43 posted on 01/11/2011 4:04:05 PM PST by kenavi (The good ol' US of A: 57 state laboratories for the future.)
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To: Democrat_media

Probably donated $50-$200 at most looking at the living conditions.
Not enough IMO to get a crazy person off.

In any case it appears the Sheriff did nothing after many altercations and he has responsibility in this matter.


44 posted on 01/12/2011 7:19:15 AM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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