Assuming Obama's responses weren't deliberate...
Oxymoron......
How does one collapse a root-cellar?
I suppose neglect causes it to slough in on itself - like a grave.
For later
They were civilized? Who knew?
Many years ago (25? 30? more?) the NY Times magazine section ran a cover article on the peculiarities of “the arab mind” and, as I recall, at least implied what Lacey had concluded. Try as I might (including phoning the Times), I’ve been unable to track down that article. Anyone here know what I’m talking about, and if so, can you point me in the right direction?
There are two words in that headline that don’t belong together.
Also, as soon as Iran announces that it has a working war head and a delivery system, I agree.
BTW, there are some excellent comments at source, the very best of which seems to be this one...
Posted by: Morton DoodslagFeb 13, 02:10 AM
Islam is the crystallization of the brutal, primitive, rigid Arab "civilization." As such, the rise of so-called "radical Islam" does not represent the collapse of Arab civilization, but it's grotesque apotheosis. Arabs have inflicted their monstrous tribal "civilization" on countless superior civilizations over 14 centuries, and the Arabs have looted, defiled, and left desiccated wastelands in their wake. Byzantium, Egypt, Persia, Spain, Greece, and Hindu and Buddhist India are only a few magnificent civilizations which Arab Muslims have raped and left for dead. Few ever reclaimed themselves after the Arabs raped them, but Spain and Greece did successfully expel the rapists from their midst.
It is silly to think, however, that the inflamed cauldron of hatred we see spewing from the Arab world is new. It harkens back to the first days of the cancer of Islam. It descended on an unsuspecting world and raged across a huge arc, brutally murdering and terrorizing it's way to riches, conquest, and genocide. Islam appeared to flourish for many centuries as it parasitized the wealth of those it conquered until the loot was consumed. That initial frenzy of Islamic gluttony ended in the collapse of the Ottoman Empire nearly a century ago, and Arab "civilization", a.k.a. Islam was slated for the slag heap of history. But then oil was discovered and trillions flowed, unearned, into the bottomless maw of Islam -- the monster was revived again.
What we are witnessing is the inevitable result of allowing the Arab beast to survive it's well deserved annihilation. We allowed the slouching beast to feed on unprecedented wealth, and now intellectuals and politicians express wonder and dismay as Islam resumes its rape and pillaging. We are simply watching a very old conflagration begin to burn anew, but the flame is very old indeed.
They have a civilization?
Who knew?
No democracy ever existed that was democratic.. NONE..
Sharia Law IS democracy.. Mob Rule by an elite of mobsters..
The mobsters change and the name of the MOB changes.. but its still MOb Rule..
Thats WHY?... America is a Republic.. with 50 democracys..
States are Mob territory's.. as are countys and citys..
So the statement that it wasn't about the fall of Christianity makes little sense, as Paganism, not Christianity was the religion of the Roman empire (Western Empire, as the author says) for almost its entire existence.
The fall of Rome was contemporanius with the widespread failure of Hellenic Paganism, and the gradual transition of the Empire towards Christianity.
Constantine's conversion and reign led directly to the founding of Constantanople, and the shift in the center of power to the east. Still, Constantine's adoption of Christianity didn't bring a complete end to Paganism, and his nephew who followed him as emperor, Julian (or Julian the Apostate if you prefer the Catholic label for him) attempted to revive the flagging faith.
So, maybe what's happening is that the moon-cult is dying, and Arab civilization along with it. I've been struck watching the Egyptian protests how few people seem to have any religious ferver. Prayer time comes and 14 people start doing the Moslem Calisthenics, but there are 20 people in background talking on cell phones and wandering around waiting for it to be over so they can get back to what they were doing.
Paganism was the official religion of Rome for the vast expanse of it's history. Towards the end people sort of lost interest in it and what started as a slow slipping away of a few towards Christianity accelerated into a majority over a few hundred years.
If average Egyptians can access twitter to organize a rebellion they can probably also access Wikipedia to read about the life of Mohammed.
I have often thought that Islam can not long survive as a religion once the simple facts about Mohammed's life is available, especially when the contrasting life of Jesus is also available.
There was a very old and revered saying in Rome that as long as the eternal flame, the Sacred Fire of Vesta, in the temple of Vesta, which pre-dated the Republic itself, burned, the city would live. Theodosius I. ordered it extinguished in 394 AD. Rome was sacked, for the first time in it's long history in 410 AD.
Arab Civilization and Islam are completely intertwined, neither can exist without the other, but I suspect that the slow dwindling of Islam will be the leading indicator.
Once Arab civilization falls, the rump-Islam in places like Indonesia and Malaysia will dry up and blow away, just as Paganism did after the fall of the Roman empire in 476 AD.
Who knew they were civilized. This headline would be true, about 1200 years ago.
ping
Assuming Obama's responses weren't deliberate...
The author never got around to distinguishing what Arab civilization is, but this is essential background to what he’s talking about.
To start with, going back in time to before Islam, Arab culture was tribal and extended tribal, up to the point where the tribes met the city-states, where tribalism was less functional.
While taking tribalism into account, Islam attempted to transcend tribalism, while integrating it, as a more *efficient* system. In Mohammed’s time, he even tried to standardize and promulgate the best *technology* of the period. But this created a huge problem.
Mohammed should have said that “new technology is good”, but they are now stuck with archaic technology. But his selling point was that Islam was “civilized”, compared to tribal “barbarism”.
And this mood is also frozen in time. Arabs are raised with the idea that Islam’s ways, no matter how primitive, are more advanced and civilized than the “barbarian” infidels. Despite this being a glaringly false idea. Because compared to western society, it is they, the Muslims, who are the barbarians.
So what is Arab civilization? To start with, tribalism is falling apart. Even in Iraq, tribal leaders were smart enough to realize that a democratic government was just plain better.
And that’s the zinger. The selling point of democracy is *not* freedom and liberty. Those are just necessary side effects. What attracts people to democracy around the world is that it is *efficient*, compared to other systems.
And even the Arab street is figuring this out. Iraq’s first free election blew minds throughout the ME. Everybody there sees how Iraq is *functioning* with an elected government. Yes, it’s a fight, but Iraq is pointing towards the future, something the other Arab nations are not.
Which lights fires. So yes, indeed, Arab civilization may be collapsing. But waiting in the wings is something better. Something we may not recognize at first, but it’s there.
The term “Arab Civilization” is an oxymoron. Anything Arabic is not civilized. Anything civilized is not Arabic.
Muslims want an empire, excuse me, Caliphate, back and wither it's Mogul, Arab, Persian, or Kurd, Muslims they'll eventually they'll keep wanting it until they get it and it is totally destroyed along with incredible numbers of Muslims. They worship a false god that takes joy in his followers standing knee deep in blood while piling up severed heads. It doesn't make much difference what you call the "civilization" that struggles along bearing the moon god on it's shoulders and periodically going into a frenzy of slaughter against others and themselves.
Arab “civilization” should have collapsed with the advent of tracked vehicles and international laws against the slave trade and brigandry.
Faust