Posted on 04/08/2011 4:15:07 PM PDT by cycle of discernment
But, the real question is, does Trump have "gravatas"?
Makes no difference, whatsoever. He still had U.S. citizenship as far as the U.S. was concerned -- which is the only thing that counts in this issue. The U.S. was not -- and still is not -- bound by the citizenship laws of other countries.
Understand this, please.
“At the time, U.S. citizenship law did not recognize either dual citizenship”
U.S. law still does not recognize dual citizenship, they just don’t enforce the law. Yo are correct on that obama would have not lost his citizenship IF he was a citizen. That’s one of the problems, there is no evidence that he was born in Hawaii( legal in court).
While the term is commomly misused. birthright citizenship means that both your parents were U.S. citizens at birth( natural born). obama is not a natural born citizen and thus not the President of the U.S.
If his mother renounced his US Citizenship while he was a minor child, he could simply reclaim it when he turned 18 by stating that it was not his intention to be an Indonesian citizen.
If, however, he made a positive affirmation, after age 18,
such as applying for an Indonesian passport as an adult or applying for student aid to Occidental as a foreign citizen, THEN he could have lost his Native born status.
I think his legal name, well into his 30s, was probably Barry Soetero, He just went by the too cool Barack Obama cause it sounded so “African”. I think he finally got around to correcting all the paperwork after his big speech in 2004 when he decided that he wanted to be President. However, to get everything fixed without leaving a trail was too complicated and there may have been some folks along the way who didn’t always want to co-operate. (Grandma Toots?)
I also suspect that’s the reason that he had to be sworn in twice. I think they explained to John Roberts that he was really born in the US but his legal name was still Barry Soetero and if Roberts raised a stink, he’d single-handedly bring about the biggest race war this country had ever seen....so he caved!
Who was that strange guy on the panel in Krauthammers seat?
It doesn’t matter what the US allowed. Indonesia did NOT allow dual citizenship. If Obama was a citizen of Indonesia his parents would have HAD to renounce his US citizenship.
One of three things, or a combination of these, has happened:
1) Parents not US citizens
2) Possibly born in Kenya
3) Renounced US citizenship when adopted by Indonesian father in order to attend school there. Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship at the time. Became naturalized at that point rather than natural born.
A person who becomes a U.S. citizen through naturalization is not considered a natural born citizen. Naturalized U.S. citizens are not eligible to become President of the United States or Vice President of the United States, which would ordinarily be the case as established by the Presidential Succession Act.
Also U.S.-born children of non-citizen parents are U.S. citizens by modern-day law, but there is unresolved doubt as to whether such children are Constitutional natural born citizens.
Kirsten needs a spanking and I will step up to volunteer my services.
Kirsten needs a spanking and I will step up to volunteer my services.
I was also just reading this:
When Barack Obama’s birth was registered in Hawaii in 1961, who or what was the source of his birth information? Was it a hospital? A doctor? A midwife? Or was it based solely on a parent’s or relative’s statement?
If a child’s family has no reason to falsify a child’s birth information, we might accept a family member’s statement “as is”, without independent corroboration. Unfortunately, Obama’s parents may have had a compelling reason to commit birth certificate fraud. When Obama was born (on August 4, 1961), his father (Obama Senior) was not a U.S. citizen, and his mother (Stanley Ann) was too young to confer U.S. citizenship to a foreign-born child. Consequently, if Obama were born overseas, he did not acquire U.S. citizenship at birth.
If Obama were born outside of the United States, he was not a U.S. citizen by birth. Nevertheless, his parents could have acquired U.S. citizenship for him through birth certificate fraud. They could have (a) registered his birth in Hawaii as “unattended,” and (b) claimed (falsely), on his birth registration form, that he was born in Hawaii. Since Obama’s parents may have had a compelling reason to misprepresent their son’s place of birth, their uncorroborated statement, by itself, is insufficient to “verify” the President’s birth in Hawaii.
Well, actually, there is no evidence that he was not, either.
But whether or not he was born in Hawaii (or the USA) is the issue that is at hand.
The whole NBC thing is a red herring...a distraction.
Since birth certificate fraud can and does occur, the U.S. State Department no longer automatically accepts non-hospital-generated birth certificates as proof of U.S. birth and citizenship. If an individual was born at home, his/her birth certificate, even if signed by a doctor, is not sufficient for passport application purposes.
If Barack Obama were to apply for a passport today, his published Certification of Live Birth would not be adequate. He would need to provide additional documentation showing that he was born in a hospital or other “appropriate medical facility”.
Well, that’s so cool. Now prove he was EVER a US citizen or that his real name is actually Barrack Hussein Obama.
I have one question ? Why would someone get/have a “certificiate of live birth ?”. Does every person born in HI get one or do you have to request one ? Why would someone want one if they have a birth certificate ?
In other words, would the fact that he has a certificate of live birth suggest that he is more likely to be a non-citizen in and of itself ?
They have know idea what is about to happen to them in the next few months. ;-)
Difference between a Certification of Live Birth and a Birth Certificate, per the State of Hawaii:
Pay close attention to the following Hawaiian legal statute:
“[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.
(a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]”
As long as an adult can walk into Hawaii’s version of the Department of Records and provide proof that they are a legal resident of Hawaii, the document is issued.
I think yours is the post on this thread that hits the closest, so far. I think the problem might very well be not that Barry was born outside the country, but that (1) his long form BC is amended and names him Barry Soetoro, (2)his name was never legally changed, and (3) during his adult years he made use of Indonesian citizenship, such as to apply for student financial aid. I surely hope that Donald Trump is following up on these clues in his research. (And I hope his gumshoes read these threads!)
Anyone can swear and sign the form to the registrar in Hawaii that they were a citizen of Hawaii and within the previous year gave birth. The individual gives the date/time of the birth and a document record is dually entered. Perhaps someone can inform as to whether you even need to show the baby! Doesn’t look like it from my read of the statute.
One can get a “Certificate of Live Birth” with its minimal documentation. The date of birth can be any date the person enters, This document can be used to then establish citizenship for the purpose of getting a passport, but its lack of physically identifying information found on the "Birth Certificate" precludes it from being useful in proving "Natural Born" status.
The normal “Birth Certificate” has uniquely identifying information along with eyewitness’s (doctor, nurse, orderly) and the specific location so that it is now verifiable and traceable.
“”Difference between a Certification of Live Birth and a Birth Certificate, per the State of Hawaii:
Pay close attention to the following Hawaiian legal statute:
“[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.””
I don’t see the DIFFERENCE BETWEEN - I only see what a Certification requires - what does BIRTH CERTIFICATE require?
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