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The Emperorsí Clothes (Pakistan Knew About OBL)
Dawn ^ | 4-6-2011 | Cyril Almeida

Posted on 05/08/2011 7:16:21 PM PDT by blam

The Emperors’ Clothes

Cyril Almeida
May 6, 2011

PAKISTAN this week has been confronted with a deeply unsettling question.

Could the self-appointed custodians of the national interest themselves be the greatest threat to national security?

There is no joy in asking this. Pakistan exists in a tough neighbourhood. A strong and vibrant army is necessary and desirable. But as the initial shock and disbelief wears off, there is a deep, deep sense of unease here.

Did they know he was here? Surely, they knew he was here?

Nobody has come out and said it openly yet. It’s too early, the story still unfolding. Ask the question in private, though, and with hand on heart, no one will say anything but, yes, they knew he was there.

Some do try and clutch at straws. Maybe they didn’t know. Maybe they’re so daft they didn’t really take this whole business of pursuing Al Qaeda seriously. Maybe they just didn’t think it was their problem.

But those voices, unconvinced by their own words, quickly trail off … They knew. They knew he was there.

It’s too frightening to make sense of. The world’s most-wanted terrorist. A man who triggered the longest war in American history. The terrorist mastermind the world’s only superpower has moved heaven and earth to track down. A decade of hunting. Hundreds of billions of dollars spent. The blood of countless Americans and others spilled.

And when he was finally found, he was found wrapped in the bosom of the Pakistani security establishment.

Away from the bleatings of the ghairat brigade — the paranoid schizophrenics marching this country into the abyss — theshock is profound. Grim questions are etched on anxious faces, but so is fear of the answers.

Proud men and women, people who love and serve their country, have cried as they connect yet another dot in the horrifying

trajectory this country is on. If we didn’t know, we are a failed state; if we did know, we are a rogue state. But does anybody really believe they didn’t know?

Why would they do it? What did they hope to gain? Pakistan has nothing in common with Al Qaeda. They serve no purpose to us; there is no confluence of interests that can be imagined.

Did we think we could produce him like a rabbit out of the hat when we needed to? Did we think if we turned him over, the American attention span would lapse and they’d move on, leaving us unable to suckle at the teats of the superpower?

Or, assured in our assumptions about the world around us, did we simply think we could get away with it?

It makes no sense. And yet, perhaps there was an inevitability to this. Did the 1965 war make any sense? It was hard to find any sense to it then, even less so today.

Did Kargil make any sense? Not then, not today.

Did hawking nuclear paraphernalia on the international market make any sense? Buying did perhaps, but selling? And now we have the world’s most-wanted terrorist recovered from the bosom of the Pakistani security establishment.

So maybe it does make sense after all. The establishment has flirted with irrationality in the past. Now it appears to have perfected it.

Where do we go from here as a country?

As long as national security and foreign policy remain in the hands of a cabal of generals — unaccountable and untouchable, a lay unto themselves, and in thrall to their own irrational logic — what future can this country have? Surely, not much of a future.

Is self-correction an option? Good luck trying to find anyone in the homeland or beyond with even a modicum of knowledge and understanding of the institution who believes it is capable of reforming itself.

What you will find are retired officers who will tell you what it feels like to be the masters of the universe, part of the inner core of the establishment. How your feet leave the ground as the world gathers beneath you, bowing and scraping for crumbs thrown their way. The view from the inside, the inner core, is of limitless power. The view from the outside is of a perch almost designed to abjure humility and rationality.

What you will find are bureaucrats with decades of experience who ultimately concede that peace with India is unacceptable to the army on any terms. What you will find are diplomats who scoff at the possibility of Musharraf being able to seal a deal on Kashmir with India. Being Numero Uno at home requires having Enemy No 1 across the border.

Zia’s army, Musharraf’s army, Kakar and Karamat’s army — it may seem difficult to reconcile the differences. But while they were very different men, the strategic orientation of the army has more or less been the same. Some addressed the strategic imperatives from a religious angle, others from a more secular angle, but it has always been the army’s angle.

Can anything be done?

The outside world can’t fix us. In fact, even now the US is probably a better friend of the Pakistan Army than of the Pakistani people. Soldiers and intelligence networks are more useful than an under-educated and impoverished population. Double-gamers and duplicitous allies at least have something to offer; what can the wretched Pakistani people offer myopic Americans?

Can we fix ourselves? Take a look around. Does anyone think Asif Zardari has what it takes? Nawaz Sharif may have the chutzpah, but does he have the nous? Beyond them, what is there but a fetid pool of opportunists and political mercenaries?

So maybe that’s the answer after all. They knew. They knew he was there. And they knew they could get away with it.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cia; foreignaid; foreignpolicy; geopolitics; isi; osamabinladen; pakistan

1 posted on 05/08/2011 7:16:25 PM PDT by blam
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To: All

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2 posted on 05/08/2011 7:18:58 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: blam

Thanks for posting this.


3 posted on 05/08/2011 7:22:22 PM PDT by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: blam

I wonder if ISI was hinting to OBL that he could have another moment of terroristic greatness, this time at India.


4 posted on 05/08/2011 7:25:11 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: blam

People in Pakistan, who live near or around a known terrorist, or group of, are generally paid a fair amount of money NOT to know...they like the money. Easy to ignore the obvious.

I tend to think any story coming out of that community will be bitter sweet...sweet because they don’t have to deal with it anymore..bitter because revenues from keeping their mouths shut will stop.

Same for the military and gov. officials who knew. The US won’t be sending money for much longer....it paid them to keep him alive, and on the run in the pocketbooks of those gleening from it.


5 posted on 05/08/2011 7:26:55 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww
Pakistan has nothing in common with Al Qaeda.

Except for that Islam thing.

6 posted on 05/08/2011 7:38:34 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: MrEdd

Well and they too seem to hate America.....

I’m not especially comfortable with an Islamic news organization’s web site featured here on FR. But I don’t know enough about it yet...except it’s a PAkistanie publication featured here and the people who own and publish are likely ISlamic as well.. Maybe others can comment in the know.


7 posted on 05/08/2011 7:49:12 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Actually this would apply to all concern..

Pakistan is a mere ventriloquist’s lap dummy to larger power to the east, the Chinese People’s Republic. China has an unquenchable thirst for oil. The whole phony-baloney crux of the radical Islamic argument is calling for the removal of the west and the United States from the Persian Gulf as preceived “evil infidels”.

Of course I would bet a horse’s gait the same Chinese People’s Republic is NOT considered “infidel” status by those who are of the radical Islamic “movement”

EXTENSIVE READ... PLEASE PASS THIS POLITICAL “GREENBACK” ABOUT...WARNING EXTENSIVE READING, BUT SOMETHINGS NEED TO BE EXPLAINED AND VIEWPOINTED, FOLKS!!

A review of the past and during the “cold war” of the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and somewhat the 1980s, Pakistan as we know it today was always allied to the People’s Republic of China. Neighboring India would be allied to the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. (USSR) This would be the senario of geo-world politics as we would know it.

The former East Pakistan is known as Bangladesh, today. Bangladesh and or East Pakistan, being a Hindu oriented nation would be aligned to neighboring Hindu, India during the time of the “cold war”. Pakistan as it is known today, formally was known as West Pakistan during the “cold ward”. West Pakistan and or Pakistan, naturally is an Islamic oriented nation.

a) During the invasion of Afghanistan by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, (USSR) the ultimate desire of the USSR would be geo-political influence and dominace into Afghanistan as a stepping stone.

Later the influence and domination would be into today’s Pakistan and later into a warm weather port area of Southern Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Behrain, United Arab Emirates, Yeman, Oman and other shiekdom republics which would concern itself with the world’s energy supplies. The USSR at the time would be in need of a warm weather shipping port and the same need for much needed oil and the world’s oil supply.

Osama bin Laden and the Afghanistani “freedom fighters of the 1980s would serve as a counter-weight and opposition to stop the Soviet encroachment of this area and takeover eventually.

b(Meanwhile, the People’s Republic of China position would be aligned, almost to that of the resistance to Soviet encroachment and domination of the areas as indicated and written. Of course both the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the People’s Republic of China would be communist as nations. But there would be a split between the two communist giants concerning the situation at hand.

c) Please fast forward as of today. The People’s Republic of China’s drive for oil and the need for oil because of its fast growing economy may have an acute interest within this same area of the Middle-East. It is well established, the People’s Republic of China may well be addicted to oil as a growing nation of today. Thus, the former alliance of China and Pakistan may be reformulating to these times of the 21st century. The former alliance during the “cold war” would break apart at the time, somewhat. Alliances for political, military and economic can reformulate often times during the course of international relations.

The question remains, Is the United States & the People’s Republic of China advancing into an international showdown over this same area of the Middle-East over the world supply of energy?

IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION & QUESTION!!!

Is the same People’s Republic China financing and “bankrolling” Islamic extremist and the cause of Osama bin Laden’s terrorist operations of Al-Qeada and other Middle-Eastern terrorist groups. This backing surely will be a political tool to rid the Middle-East of United States influence over the world’s energy supplies and other political influence.

Please consider the historical prospective of this thesis and question. If you wish, pass this about to other websites, talk radio media and other forums of discussion. International relations and geo-political alliances can be interesting. Alliances formulate, disolve and sometimes reformulate oftentimes.

Again, this posting is EXTENSIVE as international relations can be that.

Red Barr


8 posted on 05/08/2011 8:01:01 PM PDT by Red Barr (The liberals cant get over our victory!)
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To: blam

Pakistan knew. We probably knew also.

The big question is: Why take him out now?


9 posted on 05/08/2011 8:08:18 PM PDT by ladyjane
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To: caww

Reply to MrEDD and possibly all other learned individuals..

FURTHER CLARIFICATION IMPORTANT........

I have to clarify one very imporant aspect of the Soviet Union-Afghanistani war. The intent of the Soviet Union to be in Afghanistan was to prop up a Soviet Union proxy satellite regime. The “puppet” left-wing regime would take power in Kabul sometime during the middle 1970s. The Soviets, naturally we send in invasionary forces to “secure” and see to it, the regime would be protected and safeguarded when the populous of Afghanistan by a majority became tired and fed up with the “stoolie” regime which was installed at the time.

The Soviet Union being landlocked with no real ports free of ice during the late fall and wintertime months, additionally needed and desired a warm weather; free from ice and snow areas of shipping. The Persian Gulf area would serve this much needed want and desire.

The Siberian and Arctic Seas to the north of the Russian Federation is noted for heaqvy ice, snow so the Russian Federation is landlocked during the wintertime months, basically. The shipping port of
Vladivostok, Russian Federation would be the closest “ice free” shipping port when it would come to the wintertime. The port is nearest the Sea of Japan. But still the
Vladivostok port receives a good share of ice and snow. Not as much as the nortorious Siberian/Arctic Seas of the northern Russian Federation.

More importantly, the Soviet Union also wanted and desired access to the world oil supply at the time. What better way would there be but to invade and protect a Soviet style regime in Afghanistan and influence their way southward to the warm weather, seaport, oil enriched areas of Iraq, southern Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and all Arabic shiekdoms noted for enriched oil and oil exploration.

Further information from Wikipedia is extensive and long concerning the former Soviet Union experience in Afghanistan during the late 1970s and throughout the 1980s. Wikipedia neglects to mention the Russian Federation (Soviet Union) desire for a warm weather port and oil takeover over the middle east/Persian Gulf area.

Wikipedia documentation of the Soviet Union/Afghanistani war of the 1970s and 1980s.. I had to do some correcting and clarification as this is the way I am on many things of this nature..

WARNING>>>>> VERY EXTENSIVE ARTICLE!!!! LONG SUBJECTS SO BE PREPARED!!!! WIKIPEDIA HISTORICAL ARTICLE!! EXTENSIVE!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan


10 posted on 05/08/2011 8:10:05 PM PDT by Red Barr (The liberals cant get over our victory!)
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To: ladyjane
"The big question is: Why take him out now? "

Politics.

It makes Obama look like he cares about America.

And, that he is a centrist Democrat...the old Bill Clinton trick.

11 posted on 05/08/2011 8:13:42 PM PDT by blam
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To: Red Barr

Added thesis and thought..

The Russian Federation and the Soviet Union would be identical. The other “republics” of the Soviet Union would make up the rest of the empire..

Examples:

Estonia SSR
Lithuania SSR
Latvia SSR
Georgian SSR
Ukraine SSR
Uzbeckistan SSR
Tajakistan SSR

This does not complete the complete list of the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.


12 posted on 05/08/2011 8:16:02 PM PDT by Red Barr (The liberals cant get over our victory!)
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To: blam

I can just see the Pakistani equivalent of Bagdad Bob (or maybe Sgt Shultz from “Hogan’s Heroes”) saying: “I knew nothing, nothing!!!”


13 posted on 05/08/2011 8:16:36 PM PDT by rbg81
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To: caww
I’m not especially comfortable with an Islamic news organization’s web site featured here on FR. . . the people who own and publish are likely ISlamic as well

Dude! It was a great article, wasn't it? It obviously speaks a truth, and one I didn't know you could utter in Pakistan and survive. Would you have opposed linking to a Pravda article by a Soviet population statistician in the 1930s who was subtly drawing attention to the Ukrainian famine? (Their scientists did things like this, and our intelligence analysts often caught the hints.)

I was interested to see that the author of the bin Laden piece has a Christian name. (St. Cyril and his brother Mehodius were the apostles to the Slavs.) Now, you might point out that his surname, Almeida, is Arabic in origin, but more important is that it's not Pakistani, and has long been a common name among Catholics in Spain. Despite the burkha curtain, there is obviously some kind of "diversity" in parts of jihad country.

That one piece opened my eyes in many ways. He's living right in the middle of an Islamist culture, giving us insight into the world our enemies occupy—and also their vulnerabilities—in a way all the armchair Beltway commentators cannot do. Great post, I'd say.

14 posted on 05/08/2011 8:29:45 PM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: SamuraiScot; MestaMachine

Yes, I probably would be as concerned if it was a Pravada article in the 30. But then this isn’t the 30’s...nobody attacked NYcity....there wasn’t a huge infiltration of people bent on killing Americans via suicide and bombs....they weren’t opening Mosques to deliver their agenda to kill Americans...and our laws were not protecting them......The variables can go on and on...not to mention the dingbats we have at the helm of this ship.

So Yes, indeed I do have a problem with Islamic sites featured here on FR. We already know they are liars and see no wrong in doing just that. So caution at the very least.

This author wrote nothing which we have not already read or heard. And anything perceived as ‘Catholic” doesn’t impress me one bit....wolfs wear sheeps clothing and so do Moslems.

Further I am not one who adheres to the “Diversity” push. Especially concerning Moslems. I would not take a Moslems word for anything...no matter the author or how “nice” it may sound.


15 posted on 05/08/2011 8:52:13 PM PDT by caww
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To: Red Barr

During the year leading into the cold and mostly during the former “cold war”.

SOME ALLIANCES FORMULATED..

The terminology of “client states” and geo-political alliances and political/geographical pacts and political “protection” friendships..

THE SOVIET UNION

Warsaw Pact Countries of Eastern Europe
Bulgaria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Poland, German Democrat Republic, Romania for a duration of time. Romania would break from the Warsaw Pact later on.

Africa...
Egypt

Asian
India.... India would have a duel alliance as a “client state”. India hostile toward the People’s Republic of China and Pakistan. East Pakistan (Bangladesh) would be oriented toward India and the former Soviet Union.
North Vietnam
North Korea would swing mostly toward to the Soviet Union and some “client-state status with the People’s Republic of China.
Mongolian People’s Republic

North America..
Cuba

THE PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

Asia..
Cambodia 1975-1979
Laos... Laos would swing alliance status from the People’s Republic of China to the Soviet Union.
North Korea.. (somewhat)

Europe..
Albania

UNITED STATES

Western Europe... NATO
Romania would become more open to the United States during the middle 1960s even though Romania was a communist dictatorship. This minor alliance was for mutual trade between the United States and Romania.
Yugoslavia; a communist country under Joseph Tito would clash with the Soviet Union. Breakage of the communist relationship with the Soviet Union would mostly occur during the 1950s. Yugoslavia became more open to the United States; thereafter.

Asia
Republic of South Vietnam
Thailand
South Korea
Japan
Taiwan (Republic of China)
The Philippines
South-East Treaty Organization

North America
Canada

Again, these would be alliances of some circumstances.

Note: West Pakistan became so-named Pakistan approximate time of 1971. Pakistan has a long term alliance with the Chinese People’s Republic. Currently, Pakistan and India are in dispute over territory inbetween Pakistan and India so named as Kashmir providence..


16 posted on 05/08/2011 8:55:07 PM PDT by Red Barr (The liberals cant get over our victory!)
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To: Red Barr

For a few years I’ve been watching Russia and China’s relationship with the ME. Not close enough to write at length about but certainly enough to know their cuddling up with each other, as well as with the ME, gives concern.

IMO Both China and Russia have dibs on the ME oil...and they are going to ‘play’ the Moslems to get it....I think in time we will see them bringing ISrael into the fray and barter her....If the Moslems knew Israel would be a non-issue for them they’d likely agree to just about anything Russia or China would require in return.


17 posted on 05/08/2011 8:58:07 PM PDT by caww
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I wonder if any of the evidence recovered at the compound might point to a link between Osama and the ISI concerning the Mumbai Terror Attacks a few years ago.


18 posted on 05/08/2011 9:02:16 PM PDT by Stonewall Jackson (Democrats: "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.")
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To: caww
this isn’t the 30’s...nobody attacked NYcity....there wasn’t a huge infiltration of people bent on killing Americans via suicide and bombs....they weren’t opening Mosques to deliver their agenda to kill Americans...and our laws were not protecting them

The parallels are actually pretty exact to the 1930s and the Communist infiltration. Communists infiltrated unions, government, and the academy. They were assassinating Americans right here in America—mostly other Communists they disagreed with, as it happened. But their agents in American unions attacked American companies with rifles from behind barricades in pitched battles for forced unionization that stretched into the 1950s. (Many such battles went unreported in our Communist-infiltrated press.) Our laws and our institutions were not only protecting them, they were employing them, and like the Moslems, their purpose was to destroy our government and replace it with a foreign power.

Moslem sources where the writer is opposing the jihad culture are a no-brainer to publish. (Why not?) Others are judiciously justified under the necessity of knowing one's enemy. And you apparently didn't get the ironic intent of my use of "diversity"—that's why it was in quotation marks. Too bad about that.

19 posted on 05/08/2011 9:13:28 PM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: caww

The United States must be very careful of Pakistan. The same Pakistan could be and most likely is a “welcome mat” for the Chinese People’s Republic. China is addicted to oil. Pakistan would be used as a political domino for any Chinese adventure southward into the Persian Gulf area where the enriched oil areas are located.

China would love nothing better then the removal of the United States and the west from the Persian Gulf area. Thus the phony-baloney radical Islamic; “riddle-raddle” of all infidels of the west and the United States; leave our muslim lands”. This is nothing but pure hogwash! The “infidels” from the Chinese People’s Republic would surely be allowed a free hand in the Persian Gulf region. Nothing would be utter or said by these same radical Islamic phonies!

Pakistan has a fear of the Russian Federation. The former “istan” republics such as Uzebestan, Tajakistan, Kazakistan and several others had muslim populations brutalized under the Josep Stalin reign of communist terror and beyond the Stalin era. No doubt relatives of Pakistanians living northward from Pakistan within these former “republics” of the Soviet Union. Pakistan probably has a long memory of like Islamics from these former Soviet “republics” being exiled, starved, beaten and sent to work/death camps in Siberia.

Pakistan has a fear of Russians of they probably have a long memory of what the Soviets did to Islamic populations across the international border from Pakistan well into these “istan” Soviet republics.

Thus the fear and hatred of Pakistan to the Russian Federation and Moscow in particular. It’s complicated... contributor CAWW


20 posted on 05/08/2011 9:16:29 PM PDT by Red Barr (The liberals cant get over our victory!)
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To: blam
They knew he was there.

And they of a different place but a similar philosophy know his birth legend is a fraud.

21 posted on 05/08/2011 9:23:25 PM PDT by bvw
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To: caww

I have to sign off for the night..

Pakistan-Russian Federation relationship may be distrustful from the Pakistani standpoint. This, because of the past. The former Soviet Union and in particular, the brutal/psychotic/killer regime of Josep Stalin would slaughter, brutalize and commit genocide to those resident Islamics of the former Soviet republic of Central/Southern Asia.. The “istan” republics. Perhaps those residing into Tajakistan, Uzebestan, Kazakistan.

Pakistan would remember these happenings as a neighbor mostly to the south of these former Soviet republics. Being that Pakistan is an Islamic oriented nation, the memory is even today!

Good night everyone!


22 posted on 05/08/2011 9:28:13 PM PDT by Red Barr (The liberals cant get over our victory!)
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To: SamuraiScot

We shall have to then disagree on how we view the Islamic and Communist push on our country today as opposed to the 30’s era of Communism in America. At least then the people knew who the enemy was and called it what it was..not so today. It IS a different time in our country with differing leadership.

The fact we are discussing the issue of Islmic “infiltration” among our news sources does attest there is a problem...to some and not for others.


23 posted on 05/08/2011 9:55:25 PM PDT by caww
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