The Gun That Killed Bin Laden Revealed...(HK416-5.56)

USNews ^ | 05/11/2011 | Paul Bedard

[bmwcyle]

All but Obama and some in Congress admit they are Communist. What is to investigate what is right before your nose?

[crosshairs]

Cool, I own a DPMS AR-15 in 5.56 (.223) caliber. I would have thought it would have been something larger.

[USMCPOP]

It’s more or less an M4 with a different gas system.

“The HK416 is a modified variant of the American carbine, the M4. It includes international symbols for Safe, Semi-Automatic, and Fully automatic (GIT SOME!)...

... The HK416 uses a proprietary gas system derived from the HK G36, replacing the direct impingement gas system used by the standard M16/M4. The HK system uses a short-stroke piston driving an operating rod to force the bolt carrier to the rear.”

[NCC-1701]

So when does the weapon that delivered the rounds that killed OBL go on E-Bay?

[ßuddaßudd]

Yeah, that would put a hole in your head . . .
Is the .458 ammo readily available these days?

[Yosemitest]

" who will be the first FReeper to explain to me
the difference between a 5.56 and a .223 "

5.56 VS .223 Ammunition and Chamber Dimensions

There always seems to be a lot of confusion over the difference between a .223 and a 5.56 chamber.
Is it safe to shoot this?
Is it safe to do that?
More confusion is added when some manufacturers advertise rifles with .223/5.56 chambers.
I found this 'excellent' explaination on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington) and wanted to share it on this forum.

The .223 Remington is a sporting cartridge with the same external dimensions as the 5.56x45mm NATO military cartridge.
It is loaded with a .224" diameter, jacketed bullet, with weights ranging from 40 up to 90 grains,
though the most common loadings by far are 55 grains.

The primary difference between .223 Remington and 5.56 x 45 mm is
that .223 is loaded to lower pressures and velocities compared to 5.56 mm.
.223 Remington ammunition can be safely fired in a 5.56 mm chambered gun,
but the reverse can be an unsafe combination.
The additional pressure created by 5.56 mm ammo will frequently cause over-pressure problems
such as difficult extraction, flowing brass, or popped primers,
but in extreme cases, could damage or destroy the rifle.
Chambers cut to .223 Remington specifications have a shorter leade (throat) area
as well as slightly shorter headspace dimensions compared to 5.56 mm "military" chamber specs,
which contributes to the pressure issues.

While the 5.56 mm and .223 cartridges are very similar, they are not identical.
Military cases are made from thicker brass than commercial cases, which reduces the powder capacity
(an important consideration for handloaders), and the NATO specification allows a higher chamber pressure.
Test barrels made for 5.56mm NATO measure chamber pressure at the case mouth, as opposed to the SAAMI location.
This difference accounts for upwards of 20,000+ psi difference in pressure measurements.
That means that advertised pressure of 58,000 psi for 5.56mm NATO, is around 78,000 psi tested in .223 Rem test barrels
(SAAMI .223 Rem Proof MAP is 78,500 psi so every 5.56mm round fired is a proof load, very dangerous).
The 5.56 mm chambering, known as a NATO or mil-spec chambers, have a longer leade,
which is the distance between the mouth of the cartridge and the point at which the rifling engages the bullet.
The .223 chambering, known as the "SAAMI chamber", is allowed to have a shorter leade,
and is only required to be proof tested to the lower SAAMI chamber pressure.
To address these issues, various proprietary chambers exist, such as the Wylde chamber[2] or the Armalite chamber,
which are designed to handle both 5.56 mm and .223 equally well.

Using commercial .223 cartridges in a 5.56-chambered rifle should work reliably,
but generally will not be as accurate as when fired from a .223-chambered gun due to the excessive leade.
[3] Using 5.56 mil-spec cartridges (such as the M855) in a .223-chambered rifle can lead to excessive wear and stress on the rifle
and even be unsafe, and the SAAMI recommends against the practice.
[4] Some commercial rifles marked as ".223 Remington" are in fact suited for 5.56 mm,
such as many commercial AR-15 variants and the Ruger Mini-14,
but the manufacturer should always be consulted to verify that
this is acceptable before attempting it, and signs of excessive pressure
(such as flattening or gas staining of the primers)
should be looked for in the initial testing with 5.56 mm ammunition.

Does this help?

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

he HK-91 uses gas to release the casing from the chamber. Technically, it uses both recoil and gas as a function, which is why it is so reliable. Several here misunderstood my meaning , more my fault that anything. But the HK416 is purely a new form of gas operated weaponry.

[databoss]

Shoot 5.56 milspec in your rem. 223 and expect wear and over pressure problems...shoot. 223 in your 5.56 and get accuracy issues....the leade is different as well as the barrels...stick to the ammo type for your barrel stamp.

[newfreep]

But would LAZ hit it?

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

Good points, military weapons design their chambers with longer throating to prevent potential accidents. Few civilians know this. Military ammo is also seated out further and few shooters know what their “sporter” is throated at.

I have seen “blowed up guns” at the range before, from guys using military ammo in their custom sporter.

[USMCPOP]

Not the first, but this is pretty thorough. It came from CheaperThanDirt.com

The .223 Remington is a sporting cartridge with the same external dimensions as the 5.56x45mm NATO military cartridge. It is loaded with a .224” diameter, jacketed bullet, with weights ranging from 40 up to 90 grains, though the most common load by far is 55 grains.

The primary differences between .223 Remington and 5.56 x 45 mm (NATO) are that .223 Remington is loaded to lower pressures and velocities compared to 5.56 NATO and the 5.56 NATO chamber has a longer leade. .223 Remington ammunition can be safely fired in a 5.56 NATO chambered gun, but the reverse can be an unsafe combination. The additional pressure created by 5.56 NATO ammo will frequently cause over-pressure problems such as flowing brass, difficult extraction, or popped/punctured primers, but in extreme cases, could damage or destroy the firearm. Chambers cut to .223 Remington specifications have a shorter leade (throat) area as well as slightly shorter headspace dimensions compared to 5.56 NATO “military” chamber specs, which contributes to the pressure issues.

While the 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington cartridges are very similar, they are not identical. Military cases are made with thicker brass in the web area than commercial cases, which reduces the powder capacity (an important consideration for handloaders), and the NATO specification allows a higher chamber pressure. Test barrels made for 5.56 NATO cartridge measure chamber pressure at the case mouth, as opposed to the SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturer’s Institute) location. This difference accounts for upwards of 20,000+ psi difference in pressure measurements. That means that advertised pressure of 58,000 psi for 5.56 NATO, is around 78,000 psi tested in .223 Remington test barrels. SAAMI .223 Rem Proof MAP is 78,500 psi so every 5.56 NATO round fired is basically a proof load, potentially very dangerous. The 5.56 NATO chambers, also known as mil-spec chambers, have a longer leade, which is the distance between the mouth of the cartridge and the point at which the bullet engages the rifling of the barrel. The .223 Remington chambering, known as the “SAAMI chamber”, is allowed to have a shorter leade, and is only required to be proof tested to the lower SAAMI chamber pressure. To address these issues, various proprietary chambers exist, such as the Wylde chamber, used by Rock River Arms or the Armalite chamber, which are designed to handle both 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington equally well.

Using commercial .223 Remington cartridges in a 5.56 NATO chambered rifle should work reliably, but generally will not be as accurate as when fired from a .223 Remington chambered firearm due to the excessive leade. Using 5.56 NATO mil-spec cartridges (such as the M855) in a .223 Remington chambered firearm can lead to excessive wear and stress and even be unsafe, and the SAAMI recommends against the practice. Some commercial fireams marked as “.223 Remington” are in fact suited for 5.56 NATO, such as many commercial AR-15 variants and the Ruger Mini-14, but the manufacturer should always be consulted to verify that this is acceptable before attempting it. Signs of excessive pressure (such as flattening or puncturing of the primers) should also be looked for in the initial testing with 5.56 NATO ammunition.

[databoss]

I’m sure the seals had plenty...it works really well with a suppressor which I am sure they were using...this ho would have been too loud for these guys even suppressed although one doesn’t normally suppress rifle rounds......ineffective...

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

The 223 at close range, using thin jacket HP’s moving out at over 2600 fps would have opened OBL’s head up like a pumpkin!

[Perdogg]

The M-14 is way too powerful that close.

[lonevoice]

A gun killed Usama Dead Laden? I thought The One killed him with his bare hands. Or maybe just tore his throat out with his teeth.

[buccaneer81]

I remember reading a great survivalist manual in the mid ‘80s that said your first defensive weapon should be a solid shot gun like an 870, but your next purchase should be an HK-91...suck up the cash somehow and accept no substitutes.

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

Are you saying a Flash suppressor is used to tame noise?

They are used to lessen the tell-tale flash giving away the location of the shooter. Nothing more than that.

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

[Miss Behave]

Mommy wants.

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

I paid $350 dollars for a ‘67 HK-91 with the Pin-Hole on the Receiver. That version is now so rare that it now sells upward fron $8,000. And it still shoots like a dream. The older it gets, the better it gets.