Posted on 05/15/2011 8:09:47 AM PDT by mkleesma
The United Church of Canada, which was formed 86 years ago with the grand vision to bring Protestants together “in one glorious national church,” is undergoing one of the most precipitous slides in modern religious history.
In the midst of a breathtaking erosion in its membership, the church is undertaking what some call a great experiment to redefine itself through an intense engagement with the surrounding secular world; whether it be through advocating for the environment, fighting for the rights of homosexuals to marry or taking on the cause of the Palestinians, the church has attempted to blur the boundaries between religion and the broader society.
Supporters believe this strategy will eventually right the ship because they are following the word of God to engage in the world. To others, though, the United Church is engaged in a self-destructive act, aiming to be so many things to so many people that it will morph into just another social advocacy group disconnected from 2,000 years of Christian tradition. Critics say there is a severe lack of orthodoxy, lax demands on belief and even too much latitude for ministers who can question the existence of God and the divinity of Christ.
Connie denBok, a United Church minister in Toronto, is among those who despair that the church has become so much of the world, so focused on popular issues, that it is evolving away from the core of Christianity.
“In the 1960s and ’70s we became embarrassed about Jesus. And so we distanced ourselves from Jesus, and the point is without Jesus there’s no point in having a church. iTunes has better music and the NDP has better policies; everything else we do now somebody else does way better. The only thing we can do is this Jesus thing,” she said.
(Excerpt) Read more at life.nationalpost.com ...
I see no biblical support whatsoever for the concept of an ‘invisible’ church. There’s nothing there.
Quite the opposite. Christians are called to be public in their faith and their support of Christ, for the good of the Church and for society in general.
Our public divisions are not enlightening anyone towards Christ.
You’ve missed the point of your citation. Do you really believe that Christ gave you the responsibility of dividing the wheat from the tares? No that is his responsibility, and that will occur at judgement.
By declaring us the tares, you have usurped Christ.
Never ran across this concept while studying the Bible. But here are some scriptures that might apply to this "church."
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron" 1 Tim 4:1-2
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." 2 Tim 4:3-4
"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men?" Gal 1:8-10
Surely you understand that just because someone attends church and professes to be a "Christian", doesn't mean he's a true Christian.
You wrote: "Quite the opposite. Christians are called to be public in their faith and their support of Christ, for the good of the Church and for society in general."
And you actually think that I'm disagreeing with that? If you do, you're not a careful reader...indeed if you _actually read what I post_ in the first place.
You wrote: "Our public divisions are not enlightening anyone towards Christ."
Oh, yes they are. There can never be agreement between light and darkness neither inside of church organizations or out. (Not all true Christians have involved themselves in "organized religion". "Where two or three are gathered together...")
You wrote: "You’ve missed the point of your citation. Do you really believe that Christ gave you the responsibility of dividing the wheat from the tares? No that is his responsibility, and that will occur at judgement. By declaring us the tares, you have usurped Christ."
Since my post reflected the fact that Christ, at his return, is the One who separates the wheat from the tares (as HE IS THE ONLY ONE who knows the difference), how is it that you can make the absurd statement that I have declared you "tares"???
Sheesh!
“Surely you understand that just because someone attends church and professes to be a “Christian”, doesn’t mean he’s a true Christian.”
Do you have any scriptural evidence for this claim?
“Oh, yes they are.”
No, they aren’t. There’s one head of the Church and that is Christ. There’s just his church, not 1400+ churches that claim to be his.
“There can never be agreement between light and darkness”
So why do you believe that in proclaiming the invisible church that you are in the light? Again, I ask, where is the phrase, church invisible ever used in scripture?
“(Not all true Christians have involved themselves in “organized religion”. “Where two or three are gathered together...”)
“Let us not give up the habit of meeting with one another.”
That’s not exactly invisible, that sounds like visible worship with your fellow believers. That sounds like organization to me. Do you just show up at your house and people show up to worship with you?
“how is it that you can make the absurd statement that I have declared you “tares”???”
You’re still doing it, declaring that those who disagree with you are in darkness, while those who agree with you are in the light.
Look up “obtuse” in the dictionary.
So you believe that someone who professes in Christ AND who acts in accordance with his teachings isn’t a ‘true’ Christian.
So who counts?
Go away.
Pity.
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Its members are also becoming more like the world: http://www.peacebyjesus.com/RC-Stats_vs._Evang.html
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