Posted on 09/07/2011 9:00:11 AM PDT by AT7Saluki
But go ahead and ask your 8 year old in front of the teacher “is that the truth?” - you know - because it is so important to evaluate equally the word of an in trouble 8 year old vs a renowned educational expert over if they ‘really’ broke that toy or other bit of minutiae.
I would assume any parent worthy of the name wouldn’t have their child in a class with a teacher they didn’t trust to tell the truth in simple matters of class discipline.
If you think a teacher is ‘picking on your kid’ or actually lying about if your kid did X, Y or Z - what is your child doing in their class?
I will assume you are using hyperbole to make your point. Otherwise your experience with teachers is extremely distorted.
Please think about this. Why would a child need to homework if they have spent SIX to SEVEN hours in school?? What on earth are the doing all day????
As a homeschooing mom my children rarely spent more than 2 hours. In the early grades ( 1st and 2nd) it was closer to 30 minutes.
If **adults** have little energy for homework when they finally get home, why on earth should we expect **children** to do homework? They have already spent one to three hours on a bus, and 6 to 7 hours wasting time in school. If then then sleep the recommended 10 to 12 hours, when to they get a chance to LIVE, to play, to chat with friends, to exercise, to work on their hobbies?
This is my conclusion:
Little learning happens in school. The **REAL** teaching and learning is done in the home by the parents, friends of the family, or the child himself. They are the people doing the hard work of imparting and acquiring knowledge. Schools are merely and excuse to give paychecks and pensions to minimally talented white collar voters.
The reason why I’m not interested in proving you wrong is because I agreed with you. As long as we keep saying the Pledge of Allegiance, schools aren’t neutral.
It’s not an axiom, because there are some schools that do their best to be neutral, but arguing about whether its an axiom doesn’t matter either.
You’re a nutter because I agreed with you and yet you want me to prove you wrong. Seriously, wow.
My premise is that I don’t care if they are or aren’t neutral. You’re wrapped around the axel on the point for some reason.
Apt screen name.
Wow! You really don't get it.
1) A school that promotes or allows the Pledge of Allegiance is not politically, religiously, or culturally neutral.
2) A school that forbids the Pledge isn't neutral either!
Neither school is neutral in either content or consequences.
Why? Because is it IMPOSSIBLE to have a neutral school. A religiously, politically, and culturally neutral education is IMPOSSIBLE! It is axiomatic!
And ...Again rather than attempt to outline the curriculum and school policies of a neutral school, you resort to personal insult and call me a “nutter”. This little exercise of attempting to describe a neutral school would help you to understand how impossible it would be.
In fact though, ALL government teachers willingly establish and uphold a system of schools, curriculum, and policies that teach children to think and reason godlessly. Children must learn to think and reason godlessly if they are to cooperate with classroom. They willing take a paycheck to work in schools that actively and passively work to destroy a child's faith and family cultural traditions and then brazenly call this “supporting diversity”!
Merely by attending socialist schools children learn to be comfortable with taking money from a neighbor for a tuition-free social service! And...their teachers even teach them that it is their **right** to do have government do this! Was FDR and Obama accidents? After several generations of socialist acculturalization in socialist government schools, they were inevitable!
And...teachers actually expect to be honored for doing the above. Unbelievable!
Read posts before you rebut them.
From my last post:
“My premise is that I don’t care if they are or aren’t neutral. You’re wrapped around the axel on the point for some reason.”
To repeat: I DON’T CARE.
Allmendream, are you being deliberately dense? This was explained to you in my post #30.
The following it what I wrote. Here it is AGAIN:
It is evident in the above quote ( from the article) that the author is addressing the problems of government school teachers.
Obviously, a **private** school principal, teacher, or board of directors do NOT have their hands completely tied. They can and should make demands on the parents and the children. If they don't they are not a good private school. (In fact, if they didn't they would lose customers!)
Finally...My comments about the godless and socialist-funded government schools stand. That generations of our nations children have learned to think and reason godlessly and be comfortably **entitled** to other people's resources likely is the foundation of the all of the problems of which this author complains. And...Teachers who cooperate with the mob-ruled, socialist-funded, and godless government schools simply, by definition, can not be “good”.
A fanatic cannot change his mind and cannot change the subject.
This guy is a private school teacher. The person leaving because of parents in his introductory paragraph was the Principal of his private school. It is only your delusion that makes his comments somehow only applicable to government schools.
This is really simple.....
Either you respect your child's teacher as an education professional whose statements about class discipline you can trust without asking a child immediately after “is that true?”.
Or.....
You have absolutely no business sending your child to that teachers class room.
Private vs public has nothing to do with it, despite your fanatical attempt to make that the subject.
And, even renowned engineers, doctors, and lawyers don't get 100% blind trust. Why would a teacher?
"But go ahead and ask your 8 year old in front of the teacher..."
Nice straw man.
I don't know you, your school, or your situation so the following is a general statement about all government schooling. Let's use a very extreme example:
1) Should “good” Nazi concentration camp workers have agreed to work in the camps because they could sneak in a few crumbs to prisoners once in a while or have a kind word to say to them as they marched them to the gas chambers? Or....Should they have joined the resistance and attempted to shut down the camps and free as many prisoners as possible?
2) Should “good” Nazi camp workers have agreed to keep their jobs and paychecks because someone not so good might have taken their place? Or....Should they have joined the resistance, worked to shut the camps down, and rescued as many prisoners as possible?
Actually, the example is not so extreme. The Nazi concentration camps merely murdered the body. Government schools teach children to think and reason godlessly and 90% of its graduates fail to remain faithful in the faith of their fathers. A soul dead to the Lord is far worse than a dead body.
Fundamentally, Government schools would not, in fact COULD NOT, exist if Christian and conservative teachers said NO WAY and worked to get as many kids possible out of these godless and socialist pits of ignorance, and lobbied to get them shut down.
Also....If conservative and Christian teachers were doing any good at all we would not see 90% of the children going in active in their faith 2 years after graduating from government school. It is time NOW to try something different before our nation is completely lost!
Finally,...When nice, sweet smiling, Teacher Smilely ( who loves her cat) goes to church, naive parents may wrong believe that the government schools couldn't be that bad. Gee! Mrs. Smiley ( who loves her cat) works there!
Either you trust your child's teacher as an education professional that you can depend upon to accurately assess discipline problems.....
.....or.....
You have no business sending your child to their class.
Immediately turning to ask the child “is that true?” is not the option of a responsible parent who has performed due diligence on their own child's education - but the actions of a “my little darling can do no wrong” helicopter parent basket case.
After a pretty bad experience with a private school Kindergarten for our older son, we homeschooled through 8th grade for our two sons.
After eight years of homeschooling with each of them, now they're in private Catholic high school, where most of the teachers have proven to be pretty good, reasonably worthy of respect.
The first problem with your post is that it seems to imply that parents will have some sort of a priori knowledge of who is good and who is bad. One can try to learn what one can indirectly from the experiences of others, but frankly, that's not necessarily a reliable source of information.
In their current school, which in my view is a very good school indeed, my sons have had clunker teachers who have won awards, and have had really great teachers who had otherwise poor reputations.
So, with all their teachers, I start in a position of doubt. Each teacher must prove himself worthy of respect and belief. Most of my sons teachers have done so, and quite well.
The second problem with your post is that you create a false dichotomy: either the teacher is telling the truth, or the teacher is lying. A third option (and, in the case of the majority of teachers who are truly stupid individuals, with scarcely a room temperature IQ) is that the teacher is merely mistaken, but under the false impression that he is telling the truth. The teacher may not even be aware of all the facts that surround a particular issue in conflict.
That actually happens to just about everyone at least once in a while, which is why I always get all sides to the story in any conflict into which I get dragged. I own a company with clients and employees, and find that it often takes quite a bit of digging to find out exactly what's going on when conflict arises between my own employees and client personnel. And most of the time, everyone is trying their best to do the right thing, to be sincere, to tell the truth. And most of these people are actually reasonably bright.
The amount of stupid misunderstanding and failure to reveal all the relevant circumstances of a given situtation that arises when you throw low-IQ gubmint teachers into the mix increases exponentially.
Then, there are genuinely bad teachers. Not just stupid people, but folks who are morally unworthy of their positions. What does one do with the bad teachers? Well, it may take some weeks to determine for sure that a teacher is truly a rotten person. At my sons’ high school, I've encountered one or two. So, what do you do?
Switching to another section isn't always possible. There might not be another section of the class being offered, the class maybe mandatory, or it may just cause too many problems with the rest of the schedule.
So, as a parent, I assess how much of a problem the bad teacher presents, I figure out how to minimize the damage, I make a backup plan on how to address the problem of the bad teacher with the administration, and then I play it by ear. Regrettably, even in a GOOD school, not everything works perfectly all the time. Kinda like life generally.
Unlike public schools, my sons' high school doesn't generally hire teachers with education degrees. Only about 20% of the faculty have only degrees in education. The other 80% of the faculty have degrees in English, mathematics, various scientific fields, history, etc. Thus, the general intelligence of the faculty of my sons' school is more like the typical intelligence of most college-degreed folks, which is above average when compared to the population as a whole.
But even at their school, there are clunker teachers. There are problems. There are misunderstandings. And there are even folks who are either just plain old mean, or just don't give a darn.
Even though I'm a tuition-paying parent, I don't have the ability to unilaterally make decisions at my sons’ high school. I have to work within the system in which I've chosen to participate. If I want my sons to stay in the school, I have to take the good with the bad, after I've done my best to ameliorate or change the bad.
The questions always come down to - does the good outweigh the bad? By how much? Is there a better solution available to me?
So far (my older son is in his senior year, my younger son is a sophomore), the answers have been, yes, the good far outweighs the bad, no I don't have a better way of obtaining a great education for my sons.
That being said, I see the weaknesses in my sons’ school. I'm a graduate of the school, a long-time donor and volunteer. I know the principal personally, as well as many of the faculty (heck, I went to school with the principal and many of the faculty, and some of the faculty were my teachers lo these many decades ago). I'm doing my small part to try to strengthen the school where it can use the help.
sitetest
It is. Trust me. I'm an educated professional.
Tell that to the truant officer who will soon return with social workers and police. ( Real bullets in those guns on the hip.)
Several things make choice impossible and place parents under the thumb of government police threat.
1) My county has NO private schools whatsoever. This is true of many ( likely most) counties in the nation. Why? Because government is running a price-fixed monopoly that is giving a service away for tuition-free! While private CEOs would soon find themselves in prison for price fixing and collusion to form a cartel, the pigs down on the government school Animal Farm get away with it. OINK!
2) Americans no longer own their homes and businesses. They are RENTERS. The government is the landlord. Property tax is nothing more than rent to the government. High property taxes for socialist-funded, godless, and voter mob controlled schools drive both parents into the desperate situation of having to use the government indoctrination camps or face police and court action ( Real bullets on those guns on the hip.)
3) Finally...Let's call private school tuition and homeschooling expenses what they are: RANSOM from the godless and socialist-funded schools. ( Some call it jiyza.) If a parent can't pay the ransom ( jiyza) then their kids stays imprisoned.
The above is a personal insult.
And...I have repeately asked you to help me change my mind. If you could outline for me a neutral school. My mind would be immediately changed. But...You haven't done that. Instead you personally insult me by calling me a “fanatic”.
What would a neutral school look like? Curriculum? School policies? School cultural events? School calander? Subjects covered or ignored? Co-ed or single sex? Foods served or not served? Sports allowed or disallowed and who particiaptes? Theater programs? Music allowed or not allow? What art allowed or disallowed?
By the way....I am offended by the personal insult. You should apologize. It is not be respectful of diversity of opinion. That is something liberals do, not conservatives. You wouldn't want other Freeper to mistakenly think you are a liberal. /s
A fanatic is someone who cannot change his mind and cannot change the subject.
The subject is not private vs public school - but about the interaction of a teacher (in this case of a PRIVATE SCHOOL) with the parents of students.
By attempting, time and time again, to make your boilerplate rant about the godlessness of public schools the issue - you further prove the validity of Mark Twain's observation.
You are being a fanatic.
Public schools are not the subject despite your fanatical attempt to make it the issue.
I wouldn't want Freepers to mistakenly think you are rational/s.
In the rush of replies I mistook you for someone else. And...Yes, indeed, my response had nothing to do with our conversation.
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