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(LIVE THREAD!) Republican Presidential Debate #5 - Sep. 12, 2011 8pm/5pm: Tampa, FL (CNN)
2012 Election Central ^ | Sept. 12, 2011 | CNN/Tea Party Express

Posted on 09/12/2011 7:14:30 AM PDT by newzjunkey

Broadcast on: CNN

Broadcast time: 8pm EDT/5pm PDT

The Candidates:

Michele Bachmann

Bachmann is serving her 3rd full term in the U.S. House. Founder of the House Tea Party Caucus, she earned a Master of Laws degree, worked as a tax attorney, and was a foster mother for 23 teenagers. She is a member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

Herman Cain

Cain is the former chief executive of Godfather's Pizza and former chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City. He lost the Georgia Republican primary for a U.S. Senate seat in 2004. He was recently the host of Atlanta-based radio show.

Newt Gingrich

Gingrich served as Speaker of the United States House of Representatives from 1995 to 1999. He represented Georgia's 6th congressional district as a Republican member from 1979 to 1999. He has a PhD in modern European history.

Jon Huntsman

Huntsman was Utah Governor, former ambassador to China under Barack Obama.

Ron Paul

Paul is serving his 11th full term in the U.S. House. He’s an ob-gyn and was Libertarian nominee for president in 1988. He unsuccessfully sought the Republican nomination for president in 2008

Rick Perry

Perry is the three term governor of Texas, from 2000 to current. He is a retired Air Force captain for former farmer. He has a degree in animal science.

Mitt Romney

Romney was governor of Massachusetts (2003 to 2007) and former CEO of Bain Capital, a private equity investment firm. He unsuccessfully sought the Republican 2008 nomination for president. He has an MBA (Harvard) and JD (Harvard Law).

Rick Santorum

Santorum served two terms in the U.S. House and two terms in the U.S. Senate. He became the Senate's third-ranking Republican in 2001. He was defeated for reelection in 2006.

TOPICS: Breaking News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012; 2012debates; 2012gopdebates; 2012gopprimary; bachmann; cain; debate; debate2012; debates; fldebate; gingrich; gopdebate; hermancain; huntsman; jonhuntsman; jonhuntsmanjr; jonhuntsmansr; michelebachmann; mittromney; newt; newtgingrich; noot; perry; ponzischeme; presidentialdebate; rickperry; ricksantorum; romney; ronpaul; santorum; teaparty; teapartydebate; teapartyexpress
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To: rintense
It was a pretty telling revelation that Gov. Sarah Palin was also approached by Merck about gardasil and she said hell no.

OK, I dug through the e-mails and found NOTHING about Gardasil, or Merck.

But eventually, I found an article that actually referenced the e-mail Palin was talking about.

That e-mail had NOTHING TO DO WITH MERCK. And in fact, Palin's remarks NEVER said she was approached by Merck. So Palin didn't lie, it's just some people misrepresented what she said.

The e-mail was from 2008, and was a response to the Board of Education in Alaska adding Chicken Pox vaccine to the mandatory list. Palin's e-mail says that she can't do anything about it, but that her staff should tell supporters that she opposed mandating shots for our kids.

Nothing at all about "standing up to Merck". Just a comment that she can't stop mandatory vaccines, but she didn't support it, in the context of Chicken Pox.

I don't think she meant she opposed all mandatory vaccines, because she was governor for 2.5+ years, and never did anything to stop the Alaska mandatory vaccine program. If she really opposed it, she would have done something or at least tried to do something.

So in my opinion, she was just saying that she was predisposed to not mandate new vaccines. That is a great position, one I agree with, especially for Gardasil in 2007.

But it is a misrepresentation of what she said to claim she was "approached by Merck" and said "hell no". She didn't say that, her e-mail has nothing to do with that, and it turns out Merck stopped approaching states to mandate Gardasil in February of 2007, right after she became Governor.

Merck switched to a public education campaign, to put Gardasil on vaccine lists so insurance companies would cover it, and a push for federal and state programs to use tax dollars to pay for poor people. That campaign worked well enough that Alaska, under Sarah Palin, advertised Gardasil shots for their innocent children paid for by taxpayer dollars.

Not a mandate. But what Merck was pushing after they stopped pushing the mandate program.

2,201 posted on 09/13/2011 12:20:51 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
given that the legislature was out of session,

A man with no respect for the opinions of his fellow adult citizens has little patience too, so it seems. Perry acted with absolutely ruinous and unneeded alacrity to cram a new vaccine down the throats and veins of the most innocent despite the regards of their adult parents to whom that proper authority is due.

This was NO rapidly spreading Black Plaque. It EASILY could have been delayed a few months for the proper and weighty consideration of the legislature of Texas. Perry's actions are EASILY seen as raw dictatorial power wielding.

Perry could have waited, but as a crony of big pharma through his most trusted major domo, he too was swept into the forced tidal wave of panicked medicine as a new valuable drug came to market. And he made some money from it too, directly and indirectly.

It was indeed crony capitalism. Crony medicine of the worst sort. I also went through it at the time, having friends who are pediatricians swept up into the fearsome marketing buzz and fear and panic based marketing efforts.

2,202 posted on 09/13/2011 12:24:07 PM PDT by bvw
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To: Taxachusan

Mass has its fair share of illegals too...almost as many as Texas. Romney hired some to work on his yard (unknowingly) which was an issue during the last election. Not to mention Obama’s aunt lives in subsidized housing in Mass on the state dole. Perry stated it costs the taxpayers of Texas 400 million a year to guard 1200 miles of border..where are the feds?

2,203 posted on 09/13/2011 12:33:08 PM PDT by katiedidit1
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To: bvw

OK, I’ll give you that. Your use of “bold” on the first part misled me as to what you thought was difficult.

But I consider myself hyper-sensitive when I sign my name to things (I actually may my state’s “use tax”, one of only about 300 people who do — so you can see I take my oath seriously).

I would have no trouble claiming a conscientious objection to Gardasil, if I had such an objection. That’s what it means, I oppose it because I don’t THINK it is right to give it to my kids.

It wouldn’t be a religious objection, but that wasn’t the only reason I could claim. In fact, the form so far as I can tell doesn’t force you to explain your objection, you simply site the 2nd clause as the reason for your objection.

I probably would have instead gone to my doctor, to get sound medical advice, and then used the doctor for my objection (because I don’t object to the idea of vaccinating against STDs, I simply would object to the medical rewards vs the risk/cost of doing so, and that would be a medical opinion which I would reach in consultation with a doctor).

Oddly, when our state had mandatory Gardasil vaccine, it was for 6th graders, and since my kids were older, I never had to do anything about it. There was no attempt to “catch up” on the vaccinations. I still opposed it, and wrote opinion columns opposing it and calling for the repeal of the law in Virginia.

2,204 posted on 09/13/2011 12:36:00 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Brookhaven

When Romney was governor of Mass..under Romney care illegals were allowed to recieve care in the emergency rooms which is where they go for ANYTHING. Romney hired (unknowingly) illegals to work on his yard. Which was a big issue during the last campaign. Romney was pro choice? pro life? changed his stance. Soc Sec is broke and our young workers are forced to pay into it with no real guarantees...sounds like a scheme to me

2,205 posted on 09/13/2011 12:38:23 PM PDT by katiedidit1
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To: rintense
BTW, as an aside, Palin's comments on this issue did VERIFY a point i've been making repeatedly -- that Sarah Palin knew ALL ABOUT the Gardasil business WHEN SHE ENDORSED Rick Perry for Governor.

Here were her words on the subject:

Speaking about her reaction at the time, Palin indicated she had been startled by Perry’s decision to push for the vaccine mandate.

Sarah Palin: “And there had to have been something to that whole issue because it just didn’t sound like Governor Perry,” she recalled. “Governor Perry was, you know, the proverbial anti-government type of maverick there in Texas, and yet on this issue, he decided that he was going to know better than a parent was going to know in terms of what the health care or health benefit would be for their teenage daughters. So I knew there was something to it.”

Note that this both implies she thought he was unduly influenced, AND that she was it as out of the norm for him. Obviously, she did NOT think the Garasil incident was serious enough to make a point out of publicly at any time before now, nor did it bother her enough to change her opinion of Perry as a "true conservative".

This should put to rest the argument by a few people (don't know if you were one or not) that she didn't really know about Perry's Gardasil record when she endorsed him for Governor.

2,206 posted on 09/13/2011 12:42:11 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT
I still opposed it, and wrote opinion columns opposing it and calling for the repeal of the law in Virginia.

Thanks for correcting the record. I made a mistake by leaving the bold in. As I was composing my reply that used it my initial emphasis changed. I wanted to play up the medical excuse aspect since I had some familiarity with the intense marketing to the medical profession that went on with Gardasil. As I wrote I realized that was anecdotal, and I tried to make a more generally based, less anecdotal, point.

2,207 posted on 09/13/2011 12:57:01 PM PDT by bvw
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To: CaptainK

There were also deaths associated with those gardasil shots. Those are lives lost that would otherwise still be alive.

2,208 posted on 09/13/2011 12:58:27 PM PDT by Netizen (Path to citizenship = Scamnesty. If you give it away, more will come. Who's pilfering your wallet?)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

Just be a conservative and keep your hands off my child

2,209 posted on 09/13/2011 1:24:37 PM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: magritte
This is a classic contest of “debate society” candidates (Bachmann, Romney, Cain, Santorum) and “actually have a job where I have to deal with this crap” candidate Rick Perry.

Succinct observation.

Like Obama, Bachmann's never done it. Romney's been on all sides. Cain's not been in gov't. so much of it's theory for him.

Santorum showed his "debate society" cards pressing "opt in," ignoring the vaccine would no longer be covered by health insurance or medicaid meaning those needing it most, and can't afford, it won't get it because of cost.

Perry's a principled pragmatist.

She's not running, but I think Palin could fall into that camp as well. (Or I did until she signed on with Bachmann in throwing Perry under the bus.)

2,210 posted on 09/13/2011 2:47:31 PM PDT by newzjunkey (Will racist demagogue Andre Carson be censured by the House?)
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To: newzjunkey

Anyone else notice the facial expressions, demeanor, and behavior of Perry?

It scary similar to Bush and they were just discussing this on KFI Los Angeles and several others mentioned this last night, right here.

2,211 posted on 09/13/2011 3:40:05 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dragnet2

“It scary similar to Bush “
So what the hell is that supposed to mean?

Why are we tearing down the front runner in probably the most important election in our lifetime?

By making these kinds of comments, we give the Rats a free gift.

2,212 posted on 09/13/2011 4:25:25 PM PDT by pugmama
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To: Seattle Conservative

‘Not sure if it was because my dad was a lifer in the Air Force _____’

It could make a difference that you were ‘surrounded’ by military, therefore had a different experience.

However, in public all these years, singing the National Anthem, I cannot remember ever seeing anyone cover their heart. If some did, they did, but have not heard this was in the “Rules Of The Flag.” Guess I better look it up!
If it’s there, I will lead the way in promoting this.

Which reminds me of something else . . .
We are not to applaud the National Anthem, but most do . . . not me!
I realize they’re applauding the soloist, but if we were all informed, the soloist should not expect it, and wouldn’t feel weird if there were no applause.

Or change the Rules!

Well, fortunately, no one dies from ignorance of Flag/Anthem protocol. Most feel like doing whatever they want, and to heck with everyone else!

Our closeness to the military comes in the fact many in this family have worked and retired with Grumman, former headquarters, L.I., N.Y., maker of the great F-14 Tom Cat (Navy pilots loved it), and all the ‘cat’ warbirds.

(Conservative talk radio host Michael Medved, lives up your way, leaving L.A. years ago. Ever run into him)?!

2,213 posted on 09/13/2011 4:39:44 PM PDT by USARightSide
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To: kabar

Do you live in Texas?

2,214 posted on 09/13/2011 4:48:39 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: McGavin999

No. You can see that I live in VA. I do have a second home in AZ. I also am very involved with the Tea Party movement and a grassroots immigration group that lobbies on the Hill and in Richmond. I do have contacts with folks in Texas about immigration issues.

2,215 posted on 09/13/2011 5:25:11 PM PDT by kabar
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To: alstewartfan


The one that ticks me off the most is Kathleen Wiley. Her husband had JUST died.

Had I been she, I would have become the most lethal woman on the face of the earth at that moment.

2,216 posted on 09/13/2011 5:26:20 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: bvw; Allegra
Paul got some great points in,

Especially the one about gathering moths and using the honey that they make in their underground labs as fuel for the next Space Shuttle flight!

2,217 posted on 09/13/2011 5:33:07 PM PDT by Eaker ("If someone misquotes you, it's because they know you're right.")
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To: Eaker


Ron Paul is just plain aweful! He’s not true libertarian. He’s an anti-American confederalist.

I got to ask everyone:

Did anyone else feel that this debate was bizarrely a race to the center/left?

I felt like all the questions were liberals trying to force the candidates into bad sound bites to play on the MSM.

Each candidate, instead of trying to prove their conservative, T-Party creds, was trying to prove their Democrat/Socialist cred.

I felt really bizarre. It scares me...

2,218 posted on 09/13/2011 5:41:22 PM PDT by Individual Rights in NJ (Infidel Inside)
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To: Eaker
Nothing from nothing leaves nothing:
2,219 posted on 09/13/2011 6:50:37 PM PDT by bvw
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To: bvw

He needs a little blue helmet with lightening bolts on the sides.

Then it would be perfect.

I do know that I don’t have the patience required to make mead.

2,220 posted on 09/13/2011 7:00:11 PM PDT by Eaker ("If someone misquotes you, it's because they know you're right.")
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