[SeekAndFind]

What I really want is for Cain and his staff to issue on his website, a Q&A on his 9-9-9 plan IN RESPONSE TO CRITICS ( many of them existing here in the FR forum ).

There are so many issues left unanswered which a 30 second response cannot do justice to.

For instance:

1) How does it affect the life of a low income at or below or even a little above poverty level wage earner?

He ought to put some good a solid sample tax calculations on his website for people like these.

2) How will it affect the total price of goods and services?

3) How will it affect small businesses, will it make it more expensive or less expensive for them to do business?

4) It adds a new tax, which is a temptation to congress to turn it into a complicated pile of dung.

NOTE: Cain’s answer to #4 above was three-fold : A) A 2/3 majority will be required to increase any of the above number ‘9’; B) It won’t happen as long as he’s president; C) The vigilance of the people will ensure that this won’t happen.

Many still have their reservations ( as Bachmann said last night, if you turn the ‘9’ around the devil is in the details ). Firstly, Cain won’t be president forever, so any future Congress can monkey around with it after he’s gone. secondly, the 2/3 clause can be waived by a future Democrat Congress. I guess that leaves our vigilance as the last line of defense.

If Cain does not do it, his plan ( especially the federal sales tax portion ) will be attacked. Ric Santorum already tested this last night when he asked the people of New Hampshire if anyone of them want a sales tax ( no one raised their hands ... or maybe just one ).

[BenLurkin]

She sounded very lame with that lame comment.

[DManA]

I was wondering when someone would notice that.

[Peter from Rutland]

I ignored the gaffes. I ignored the boring message repeated ad infimitum. Finally it all became too much and I pushed the “ignore” button.

This was just plain stupid. The woman is clearly a danger to herself and others at this point.

[SeekAndFind]

BTW, on the debates, I agreed with Hotair -— Cain had to prove that he could keep up with Mitt Romney and not get flustered while coming under attack. He did a much better job of both than Rick Perry has done in any of these debates, and kept cool under pressure. He continued to use his sense of humor, perhaps less than in previous debates, but his personality and warmth still came through.

Cain had a Reagan-like moment in the first half when he demanded and took some time to address a question — and then a Gerald Ford-like swan dive moment when he named Alan Greenspan as his model for a Fed chair (YIKES, an opening for Ron Paul to attack!!)

Overall, though, he had a good debate, and did nothing to damage his momentum. His rebukes to Ron Paul and to Karen Tumulty for misquotes were firm but not hysterical, and that demonstrated that Cain can control debate currents.

[DManA]

It still isn’t clear to me. Is his 9% sales tax a VAT or a point of sale tax?

[Buckeye McFrog]

okay....maybe NOW Michele has really jumped the shark

[RockinRight]

It was a lame comment on her part.

Regardless, I think a constitutional amendment requiring a 2/3 majority for ANY tax increase isn’t a bad idea anyway...

[DrC]

“The vigilance of the people will ensure that this won’t happen.”

These “vigilant” people haven’t been terribly effective in preventing the income tax and payroll tax from mushrooming to levels far higher than those initially promised by the politicians who championed these levies.

I like “out-of-the-box” thinking, but worry this particular idea may be too half-baked for prime-time.

[DManA]

One thing about Cain, for someone to succeed in Big Business, more than just succeed but really triumph, with that accent, well, there is a real solid person there.

Maybe he can turn it on and off but I’ve never heard him speak without it.

[heiss]

I think it is clear that Cain didn’t really think through this, nor did he expect to be the frontrunner (and the plan gaining real scrutinity).

Anyway, since it introduces new tax (sales) with no real protection of keeping it at 9%, it has zero chance of getting traction.

GOP will control congress, so president’s job is to sign whatever House and Senate agrees. Dems will filibuster everything, so nothing will happen.

999 was a nice talking point for a while, but let’s move on.
Cutting spending and lowering taxes is good enough for now.

GOP should use the opening Reid gave them (changing senate rules and using nuclear option) and expand nuclear option and passing everything with majority vote (repeal ObamaCare, and tax reform).

[heiss]

I think it is clear that Cain didn’t really think through this, nor did he expect to be the frontrunner (and the plan gaining real scrutinity).

Anyway, since it introduces new tax (sales) with no real protection of keeping it at 9%, it has zero chance of getting traction.

GOP will control congress, so president’s job is to sign whatever House and Senate agrees. Dems will filibuster everything, so nothing will happen.

999 was a nice talking point for a while, but let’s move on.
Cutting spending and lowering taxes is good enough for now.

GOP should use the opening Reid gave them (changing senate rules and using nuclear option) and expand nuclear option and passing everything with majority vote (repeal ObamaCare, and tax reform).

[Perdogg]

Every time in history, whenever the marginl tax rate has been lowered, economies and tax revenues have boomed. Every single time. You should know this.

In Canada, there is a 17% GST, NOT A VAT, half goes to federal govt and half to the province. 9% sales tax would not kill any one paired with 9% flat tax.

[the invisib1e hand]

Dear Geniuses: A "plan" does not matter. The "details" are what the cabinet is for.

The question is, does the candidate have unimpeachable integrity? has his character been properly formed? is the candidate an executive? is he a leader?

Plan, schman. It was a mistake to bring it up. Where is Romney's "plan?" WTF is Obama's? They're laughting at conservatives because any "plan" is an easy target.

Drop it now. Run on the character and experience of Mr. Cain. In that area, he can laugh at them.

[Safrguns]

The criticism of the 3rd leg of Cain’s 999 plan is valid.

The last thing we need to be doing is giving congress yet another avenue through which to fleece the American public.

It also encroaches upon state and local governments ability to raise revenues at their level.

However, with that said, I wish that Cain would remind his base and his critics that PRESIDENTS DON’T GET EVERYTHING THEY WANT!

No... 999 will NOT pass as he is proposing.
But... if Cain can win the argument and fight to throw out the current tax code, ironing out the details of 9-9-9, or 9-12-0, or whatever will be easy.

CAIN needs to re-emphasize that what he is proposing is a PLAN... not an all or none deal. Presidents don’t write legislation, but they are expected to lead on concept and propose a base framework to start from.

[sickoflibs]

“The business tax in the Cain plan bears no resemblance to the present corporate income tax. The tax would apply to gross sales less dividends paid and all purchases from other companies, including investment goods. Thus, there would be no deduction for wages.”
This is far more similar to a value-added tax than to a corporate income tax. And indeed, the description on Cain’s website matches Bartlett’s, saying the business tax would apply to “Gross income less all investments, all purchases from other businesses and all dividends paid to shareholders.” One question is what Cain means by “gross income,” but I think he has to mean something like gross revenue–anything that looks like a profits concept would already exclude “purchases from other businesses” and so they would not be there to deduct.
In other words, in effect he’s proposing both a sales tax and a de facto VAT that’ll operate as a second sales tax on top of it. I’m not sure Bachmann realizes that or else she would have nailed him on it right here. Bad enough that Congress gets to play with one new “invisible” tax on consumers, but two?”

9-9-9 ping! The above is worth discussion.

Santurum came up with two arguments that I found uninspiring against it:
1) Making the bottom 50% pay some federal taxes (in addition to entitlement taxes) is raising their taxes and that is bad.
(Well?? they get to vote dont they?)
2) Consumption taxes are bad because we are a consumption economy
(we are a nation of Grasshoppers like Greece depending on handouts and cant change so learn to live with it???)

[throwback]

For people with a biblical world view, the remark is not surprising. She followed it with the warning that it’s not wise to open another revenue stream for Washington. That was a legitmate shot to Herman’s plan. I think his plan got some significant scrutiny last night. For one thing, it made me think even if I did get money back from a lowered income tax, how would I deal with a 9% Federal sales tax added onto my local and state sales taxes that are over 8% now? That’s 17-18% tax. That’s a chunk.

[chris37]

Michelle,

Shut up,

You dummy.

[txmissy]

Great post. I agree with you and I’m a Cain supporter.

[cuban leaf]

I made that joke a few days ago here, but as a Cain supporter I was obviously kidding, and from a completely different perspective than her. Also, if I were a presidential candidate, there is no way in he** I’d have brought it up.

Talk about dumb.

[Sprite518]

Keep in my that Bloomberg DID NOT give Cain a chance to respond. Which was total B.S.!

2) I lost ALL RESPECT for Bachmann last night after these comment. I wondered is Bachmann just lying or is she THAT STUPID??? To Imply that this plan is additional tax to confuse people was complete B.S.!

I know longer trust Bachmann on the campaign trail. I am firmly in Cain’s camp too.

Yes Romney did the best job last night(Cain did good enough), BUT....

That does not mean I want a LIBERAL REPUBLICAN as my choice. NO WAY!

If Romney (the leftist choice) gets the nomination, then conservatives will have the choice in 2012 to vote for Liberalism or Communism.

If Romney gets elected... Obama Care for the most part will stay in place, illegal immigration will continue, taxes will not improve much, gays in the military will stand and more gun control.

For the record, I’m not voting for the best person in the debate. I’m voting for the candidate that best represents me and that will be Herman Cain.