Common Threads between Islam and Mormonism

Townhall.com ^ | October 30, 2011 | Michael Youseff, The Church of The Apostles.

[driftdiver]

Repent and you can still be saved

[driftdiver]

I agree disagreement is not hate. Much of what gets posted on these threads is not mere disagreement.

People with arguments such as yours are tiresome. There are a myriad of reasons to not support Romney. Using religion as the reason and posting talking point after talking point is boring and ineffective.

Notice how anyone disagreeing with the tactics is then attacked. So quit your whining and go home.

[driftdiver]

my my you have thin skin

[Elsie]

Jock, the painter, often would thin his paint so it would go further. So when the Church decided to do some long needed maintenance, Jock was able to put in the low bid, and got the job. As always, he thinned his paint way down with turpentine.

One day while he was up on the scaffolding — the job almost finished — he heard a horrendous clap of thunder, and the sky opened.

The downpour washed the thinned paint off the church and knocked Jock off his scaffold and onto the lawn among the gravestones and puddles of thinned and worthless paint.

Jock knew this was a warning from the Almighty, so he got on his knees and cried: “Oh, God! Forgive me! What should I do?”

And from the thunder, a mighty voice: “REPAINT! REPAINT! AND THIN NO MORE!”

[Elsie]

Much of what gets posted on these threads is not mere disagreement.

True; most of it are FACTS.

[Elsie]

Using religion as the reason and posting talking point after talking point is boring and ineffective.

True; if it were 'the' reason.

It's merely 'a' reason.

[driftdiver]

opinions are not facts, even if you use big letters

[Elsie]

opinions are not facts, even if you use big letters

True; but FACTS are, even if they are RED!

[driftdiver]

not even if they are blue

[svcw]

[Eva]

No, it is not just the apron that is pinned on. The dress is also pinned on with straight pins from the neck down. I consider it to be child abuse. They put those pins on girls as young as 4 years old.

[Tribune7]

There is a huge difference.

The Mormons don't call their religion The Church of Joseph Smith of Latter Day Saints.

[Elsie]

The Mormons don't call their religion The Church of Joseph Smith of Latter Day Saints.

But they SHOULD!

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"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

 

 

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

 - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

 - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

 

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They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

 Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

[Elsie]

Abraham Lincoln told a lot of stories, usually to make a point.

One of his favorites was to ask someone,

"If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs would the dog have?"

More often than not, the person he was asking would ponder the question for a moment, then answer,

"Well, if you're going to call the tail another leg, I guess the dog would have five legs."

Lincoln would then make his point by pointing out that, "No, dogs have four legs, and merely calling the tail another leg does not make it so."

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So it is with a claim of 'opinion' in matters that a person either WILL not or CAN not defend.

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118	Quote
119	Quote
122	Scripture
124	Scripture
125	Quote
127	Reality
130	Reality
132	Whine
136	Quote
139	Quote & Scripture
175	Quote

[Elsie]

Golly!

I left out 193!

[Elsie]

I thought you could say stuff like that (#128) in the News/Activism forum.

Am I nuts?

[Elsie]

Common Threads between Islam and Mormonism

But did Muhammad use a HAT??

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"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."

---Joseph Knight's journal.

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"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.

(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),

"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

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"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,

as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,

and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

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In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."

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"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"

reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881

in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

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In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:

 

 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,

Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12

June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)

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Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:

 

"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"

("A New Witness for Christ in America,"

Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)

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"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."

---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.

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[Elsie]

Common Threads between Islam and Mormonism

But did Muhammad back down from a powerful Government??

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Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...

I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

[Elsie]

Common Threads between Islam and Mormonism

But did any of Muhammad's followers get blamed for killing GENTILES??

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"I am a true believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ, I do not believe everything that is now being taught and practiced by Brigham Young.

 I do not care who hears it. It is my last word - it is so.

 I believe he is lead­ing the people astray, downward to destruction.

 But I believe in the gospel that was taught in its purity by Joseph Smith, in former days.

 I have my reasons for it.

 

"I studied to make this man's [Brigham Young] will my pleasure for thirty years.

See, now, what I have come to this day!

 

"I have been sacrificed in a cowardly, dastardly manner." (Lee enun­ciated this sentence with marked emphasis.)

 

 

Excerpted from -->  http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mountainmeadows/leeexecution.html

[Elsie]

Common Threads between Islam and Mormonism

But do any of Muhammad's followers have to follow so many RULES??

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The Rules

1. Learn and obey all missionary rules.
2. Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.
3. Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.
4. Don't debate or argue.
5. Center your mind on your mission.
6. Dress conservatively. Elders: white shirts, conservative ties, and business suits. Sisters: conservative colors and skirts that cover your knees. No floor-length skirts or dresses.
7. Cut your hair regularly.
8. Keep your hair clean and neatly combed at all times in the approved style.
9. Be neat and clean.
10. Bathe frequently.
11. Use deodorant.
12. Polish your shoes.
13. Iron your shirt and business suit.
14. Arise at 6:30 A.M.
15. Study for 2 hours every morning.
16. Proselytize for 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M.
17. Turn off your lights at 10:30 P.M.
18. Exercise regularly.
19. Write in your journal regularly.
20. Follow the "Missionary Gospel Study Program" (31157) for your personal study.
21. Regularly study the Missionary Guide and the Discussions.
22. Attend Sunday priesthood or Relief Society meetings, Sunday School, and sacrament meeting.
23. Attend the general session of Stake Conference.
24. Attend general conference broadcasts if available.
25. Avoid all other church meetings unless you have a special assignment or are brining an investigator.
26. Proselytize as much as possible on weekends and holidays because this is when you'll find people home.
27. End your preparation day at 6:00 P.M. and proselytize from 6:00 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.
28. Wear your missionary uniform in public on preparation day while not engaged in recreational activities.
29. Arise at 6:30 on preparation day and study for 2 hours from the approved books.
30. Take care of your physical preparation for the week on preparation day: wash your clothes, clean your apartment, wash your car, get your haircut, and shop for groceries.
31. Write to your parents every week on preparation day.
32. Write less frequently to your siblings, friends, and acquaintances.
33. Don't communicate with any friends or acquaintances that are within or close to your mission boundaries, except as a part of official mission business.
34. Plan safe, wholesome, and uplifting activities for preparation day.
35. Stay with your companion during all activities.
36. Do not go on road trips.
37. Do not leave your assigned area without permission
38. Do not watch television.
39. Do not view unauthorized videocassettes.
40. Do not listen to the radio.
41. Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.
42. Do not participate in musical groups.
43. Do not participate in athletic teams.
44. Do not sponsor athletic teams.
45. Do not engage in contact sports.
46. Do not engage in water sports.
47. Do not engage in winter sports.
48. Do not engage in motorcycling.
49. Do not engage in horseback riding.
50. Do not engage in mountain climbing.
51. Do not embark on a private boat.
52. Do not embark in a private airplane.
53. Do not handle firearms.
54. Do not handle explosives.
55. Do not swim.
56. Do not play full court basketball.
57. Do not play basketball in leagues.
58. Do not play basketball in tournaments.
59. You may play half-court basketball.
60. Never be alone.
61. Seek advice from your mission president if your companion is "having difficulties".
62. Be loyal to your companion.
63. Ask your mission president for help if your companion doesn’t obey the rules.
64. Pray with your companion every day.
65. Study with your companion every day.
66. Plan your work with your companion every day.
67. Take time at least once a week for companionship inventory.
68. Seek to be one in spirit and purpose and help each other succeed.
69. Always address your companion as Elder or Sister.
70. Sleep in the same bedroom as your companion.
71. Do not sleep in the same bed as your companion.
72. Do not arise before your companion.
73. Do not retire after your companion. (apparently, being together is more important than getting the correct amount of sleep that your unique body requires.)
74. Frequently study with your companion the Missionary Guide section on companions.
75. Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.
76. Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don't mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).
77. Do not flirt.
78. Do not date.
79. Do not communicate via phone or letter with anyone of the opposite sex living within or near mission boundaries.
80. Do not visit a single or divorced person of the opposite sex unless accompanied by a couple or another adult member of your sex.
81. Try to teach single investigators in a member’s home or have missionaries of the same sex teach them.
82. Always follow the above rules, even if the situation seems harmless.
83. Use the commitment pattern to get referrals from members.
84. Keep your dinner visits with member briefs and during the customary dinner hour in the area.
85. Remember to say thank you to those who feed you.
86. Visit members and nonmembers only at appropriate times.
87. Do not counsel or give medical treatment.
88. Do not stay in the homes of people when they are on vacation.
89. Only write letters to family members and friends at home.
90. Do not telephone parents
91. Do not telephone relatives.
92. Do not telephone friends.
93. Do not telephone girlfriends.
94. Contact your mission president in case of an emergency.
95. Take problems and questions to your mission president.
96. Do not write to the President of the Church or to other General Authorities. Letters from missionaries to General Authorities are referred back to the mission president
97. Respect the customs, traditions, and property of the people who you are trying to convert.
98. Obey all mission rules.
99. Obey the laws of the land.
100. Do not get involved in politics.
101. Do not get involved in commercial activities.
102. Do not give any information about the area.
103. Respect the customs and cultures of those who you are trying to convert to your own customs and culture.
104. Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions.
105. Do not say or write anything bad about the political and cultural circumstances where you serve.
106. Do not become involved in adoption proceedings.
107. Do not suggest or encourage emigration. (This rule is a bit ironic, given the now-defunct doctrine of gathering the believers to Zion)
108. Be courteous.
109. Provide community service.
110. Do not provide community service that isn’t approved by your mission president.
111. Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.
112. Do not provide community service during the evening, weekend or holidays—those are peek proselytizing times.
113. Your mission president must approve your housing.
114. Keep your housing unit clean.
115. Do not live with single or divorced people of the opposite sex.
116. Do not live where the spouse is frequently absent.
117. Your living unit must have a private bath and entrance.
118. You may occasionally fast for a special reason, but generally the monthly fast is sufficient.
119. Do not fast longer than 24 hours at a time.
120. Do not ask friends, relatives, and members to join in special fasts for investigators.
121. Maintain your health.
122. Eat a healthy diet.
123. Sleep from 10:30 to 6:30.
124. Follow the approved exercise program.
125. Keep your body, clothes, dishes, linens, towels and housing unit clean.
126. Dispose of your garbage properly and promptly.
127. Follow the safety rules for all of your stuff.
128. Seek medical care if you are in an accident or become sick.
129. Be immunized.
130. Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.
131. Budget your money carefully.
132. Keep a record of what you spend.
133. Do not spend more than your companion.
134. Do not loan money.
135. Do not borrow money.
136. Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.
137. Pay your bills before leaving an area.
138. Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.
139. Do not waste money on souvenirs.
140. Do not waste money on unnecessary items.
141. Be a frugal photographer.
142. Do not accumulate excess baggage.
143. Obey custom laws and regulations.
144. Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.
145. Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.
146. Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.
147. Do not drive without a license.
148. Drive only Church-owned vehicles.
149. Do not drive members’ cars.
150. Do not drive nonmembers’ cars.
151. Do not give rides to members or investigators in Church-owned cars.
152. Use cars only on approved mission business.
153. Use cars only within the assigned geographical area.
154. Be conscious of safety at all times.
155. Drive defensively.
156. Wear your seat belt.
157. Pray for the Lord’s protection while driving.
158. If your companion is driving, assist him or her.
159. Do not tamper with the vehicle’s odometer.
160. Know bicycle safety rules.
161. Use extreme caution on your bicycle.
162. Do not ride your bicycle after dark.
163. Do not ride your bicycle in heavy traffic.
164. Do not ride your bicycle in adverse weather conditions.
165. Go directly to your new area when transferred.
166. Find your new companion without delay when transferred.
167. Have a maximum of two suitcases and a briefcase.