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To: raybbr
God or the state?

While Christ told us to render unto Caesar that which is Caesars, and unto God that which is His,
And He said to them, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." Luk 20:25

Paul's was instructed by the Holy Spirit to add the following when he wrote the believers in Rome who questioned whether or not they were subject to Roman law,
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. Romans 13:1-2



14 posted on 12/17/2011 3:08:49 PM PST by OneVike (Just a Christian waiting to go home)
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To: OneVike

“For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. Romans 13:1-2”
I for one am glad our founding fathers thought otherwise of Paul’s instructions.


24 posted on 12/17/2011 3:30:40 PM PST by running_dog_lackey
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To: OneVike

re: “While Christ told us to render unto Caesar that which is Caesars, and unto God that which is His,
And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” Luk 20:25

Paul’s was instructed by the Holy Spirit to add the following when he wrote the believers in Rome who questioned whether or not they were subject to Roman law,
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. Romans 13:1-2”

This issue of God and the State is always controversial because many people do not “get” what Paul is talking about.

Some people think Paul is saying that you must obey the government no matter what - even if it means disobeying God’s law.

That’s not what Paul is advocating. It is a similar issue with husbands and wives. Some believe that wives are supposed to obey their husbands even if it means disobeying God’s commands/laws.

These ideas are perversions of what Paul is saying. Paul is teaching Christians that government, as an entity, as an institution, is given by God to bring law and order to society. Government exists to stop evildoers - to punish those who break the law. In this sense, government is a gift given by God to benefit all those who love good and want to live peaceful, quiet, prosperous lives.

When government fails to meet the purposes God ordained for it, then it is outside of God’s will and disobeying His law - even if they don’t acknowledge God per se.

Same thing with wives and husbands. Yes, in general, wives are to be voluntarily submissive and respectful of their husbands - but not to the point of violating God’s moral laws. Remember the story of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5?

Anyway, my point is that you have to look at the total context of what Paul is talking about - Christians are to be good, law-abiding citizens as a testimony to those around them. They are to respect those in authority because the role of that authority is to provide the rule of law, protect law-abiding citizens, to provide order for society as a whole - to punish those who do evil.

When you have a government that advocates turning Jews over to the state for extermination - then Christians are NOT to obey that law because it violates God’s moral law. If our government were to order it’s citizens that they CANNOT pray to or worship God - then no, we don’t obey that law.

In the story of Jericho where Rahab the prostitute hid the Israelite spies from her government - even lied to government officals - she did this because she believed in the God of Israel and knew that her city and people were about to be judged by God for their sins - therefore she helped the spies and she was blessed by God because of her actions (she’s even mentioned in the list of the Faithful in Hebrews 11:31).

Also, as long as our form of government allows for peaceful change through free elections, then we should abide by the laws of the land and try to change the bad laws through legal, peaceful means. There may come a time when that is no longer possible. I think the Founders felt they were at that point and they had to decide whether to submit or to resist what they believed to be unjust, un-Godly laws on the part of the British government.

So, be careful when quoting Scripture that you have it in it’s full context. Paul did not teach that Christians were to blindly follow all governmental laws to the point of disobeying God’s laws.


53 posted on 12/17/2011 6:43:17 PM PST by Nevadan
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