Posted on 02/15/2012 3:30:52 PM PST by Toaster tank
I've had it, after 55 years, with the Catholic Church. No more of my money for these people. Every homily is like an Obama campaign speech. Hiding the homosexual scandal, promoting Obama Care........ on & on.
Is there a conservative alternative?
Orthodox Church maybe? Never been to one but I'm ready to switch.
We have many consistent visitors, regular attenders and members from the ranks of former Catholics.
I have a number of friends who left the Catholic church to attend the Episcopal Church but wound up going to the African Anglican Church and quite happy there.
I do dearly love bible studies learning for my self what the bible really says about such things as are found in the New Testament but also love learning about the history of man in the Old Testament.
If you're unable to part with the liturgical tradition, you might be comfortable at a Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod (the conservative Lutheran church as opposed to the very liberal ELCA - Evangelical Lutheran Church, which is anything but "Evangelical.")
I have found that most all of my childhood religious traditions can be found in a Southern Baptist Church, as so many other denominations have left Christian teachings and beliefs far, far behind.
You might try looking at things from the top down. Try the pope’s “Jesus of Nazareth,” in two volumes. Pretty much ignore the preface, which academic talk. Except that the pope makes it plain that he is writing as Joseph Ratzinger, not as pope. These are meditations on Jesus Christ as revealed in the Gospels, and it is all about Scripture.
I suggest that you start in the middle of Volume two, where he is discussing the Last Supper and the Eucharist.
Write to Tom Cruise, Hollywood, CA. He’ll set you up.
Without Jesus ONLY there would be no Bible or Christianity (the Bible pre-dates catholicism—see the Old Testament, of which Jesus is very much a part).
I’m sorry, but I will never agree with the strange doctrines of catholicism—things such as praying to dead people like the mother of Jesus and others, the pope’s “infallibility,” the false claim that the pope is God’s representative on earth (Jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and man—Jesus’ words, not mine), the worshipping of idols (bread, etc.), and the catholic claim that Peter was the first pope, etc. No, I will never accept these false teachings.
This is not meant to offend you two; it’s just the way it is here.
It's quite near the Greek Orthodox church (the big round one) where they have several festivals a year. About half that congregation doesn't have Greek surnames! Everybody's gotta' have a home eh!
Nonpartisan. Political in its broader meaning refers to public matters. The Church is not a sect, hiding behind walls.
Don’t know....
But then "Religious" folks killed Jesus......
They were first called Christian at Antioch.
That said, I recommend Tozer’s book precisely because it is a book that shows the way and invites the reader to follow. In my copy, each chapter was ended with a simple prayer. For me, in my time of discovery, the simple and powerful truths that Tozer brings to the reader were precisely what I needed to make the steps the Holy Spirit led me into. Moving from the laws, customs and edicts of men was the hard part and into the freedom and light of Christ was facilitated by the simple and powerful ideas he plainly put down on paper.
For the truly penitent soul, God will have no problem directing his path.
I agree with Zetman - find a Catholic Church that hosts an “Extraordinary Form” (Tridentine) Mass: the Mass is much more reverent, and the priests who have learned the old rite are quite conservative.
I have found refreshed and renewed after attending these Masses instead of the touchy-feely new Rite.
This web site can point you in the right direction
http://latinmass.com/latinmassdirectory.html
as can this site:
Pax vobiscum.
Any Missouri or Wisconsin Synod Lutheran Churches in your area? If you are used to a liturgical service, you may find the words of the litergy to be the same.
How can Mary be dead if she is with the Lord. Ditto the saints? Ditto your saintly grandmother? Hebrews 12 v. 1 speaks of a cloud of witnesses about us, It strains the context to think that the preacher is only talking about the good example. True faith never dies. As for mediation, the Lord means us to be mediators, to be witnesses of the faith. When our body dies, and we encounter Jesus, face to face, do we really forget all about those who remain behind? The soul longs for the body; hence, we expect the Resurrection of the body and taking our final place in a new creation.
None of that social gospel/social justice stuff. No donations get shuttled off to the leftist National Council of Churches. Bible-based sermons.
When the Catholic church went to English, I discovered the liturgy intoned by the priests were in many cases the same as we Lutherans sing at the beginning of our services.
Plus, you can't beat the hymns in the Lutheran Hymnal. IMHO, the best hymns of any denomination. They are beautiful, moving, many of them famous..... written by the best hymnists in church history. Lutherans love to sing during service, no pussyfooting, the congregation sings lusty and loud.
My favorite Lutheran hymn is the beautiful and serene "Be Still My Heart (the Lord is On Thy Side)"...... based on composer Jean Sibelius' great work, "Finlandia".
There should be a LCMS near you. Make an appointment with the church secretary to talk to the pastor. She will also happily give you a tour of the church on request.
Good luck and may your search be blessed.
Leni
former pastor here - stay away from Free Methodists no matter how conservative they look
I’ve seen liberal churches, conservative ones, and some in between. They pretty much reflect the neighborhood / community they are in. It is not specifically a Catholic thing either.
Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. Very conservetive and you will be able to follow the liturgy!
Lutheran - Missouri Synod. . . .
Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is very conservative and strictly adheres to bibical teachings. The services are quite beautiful, especially in the older church buildings.
you might be comfortable at a Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod (the conservative Lutheran church). . . .
I concur. I am a pastor in the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod. We are a socially/theologically conservative, liturgical, sacramental church body (although some of our congregations are not as liturgical as they should be).
If you'd like, Toaster tank, I can direct you to some information and websites of LCMS congregaations near you to check out. Let me know (on this thread or via freepmail) your town and ZIP code, and I can give you some recommendations. I've helped a number of people find good congregations in their area.
Within the communion of Rome: a Trindentine-rite parish, or any of the eastern rites (Maronite, Melkite, Greek Catholic, etc).
Not in communion with Rome: Any of the Orthodox...Antiochian tends to be English-speaking or multilingual; some Greek Orthodox are becoming bi-lingual at key points of the liturgy.
Of the Western traditions not in communion with Rome: the Anglican Church of North America; the Lutheran Church-Misouri Synod; any Lutheran congregation of any label pastored by a member of the Society of the Holy Trinity
Is there a conservative church out there?
____________________________________________
Here’s an excellent one:
http://deanbible.org/mission.php
Free live-stream over the internet:
http://deanbible.org/index.php
Extensive, free archives of audio and video
(a goldmine of solid, in-depth Bible teaching):
http://deanbible.org/andromeda.php?q=f&f=%2FAudio+Files
The pastor:
http://deanbible.org/bio.php
Have you made any effort to find a parish where this is not the case? Try an Eastern Rite Catholic church if every priest in your diocese is a flaming liberal. Talk to other conservative Catholics (Opus Dei is a good place to look) about where they go.
One of the priests at my parish is to the right of me -- and that's an achievement! -- and makes it very clear in his homilies, so don't tell me that it's that way everywhere.
See my post #67.
I interpreted Toaster tank as asking for a conservative Christian denomination, not just an address of a particular church building.
Robby, your claims contradict the words of Jesus.
In John 3:13, Jesus clearly says that NO ONE has ascended into heaven except the One who came from it—Jesus, Who is in heaven.
There are several places that reference the dead, which indicate that the dead are ASLEEP, as it is put, and that the dead will be called to life on the LAST DAY, the Day of the Lord, when the dead will be judged.
You are misinterpreting Hebrews 12:1. It does not refer to dead people actually floating around us. You must look back in the preceding text to understand the context of that verse, which has to do with faith and perseverance.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that when we die, we immediately encounter the Lord. Instead, it says we sleep until the Day of the Lord.
I agree! The words of some of those hymns are a sermon themselves, rich with doctrine.
Lutheran's also believe in the real presence.
See my post # 68 and compare the time stamp to your # 67 —great Lutheran minds think and post alike.
Also, it should be noted that the books of Maccabees WERE Sacred Scripture, at the time of Jesus on Earth.
Since Maccabees CLEARLY supported the ideas of Purgatory and prayers to and for the dead -— Martin Luther stripped them from the Bible.
It should be noted that Luther wanted to remove other Books as well, at least 2 Books which are currently in the King James version.
Yes, human beings are fallen beings. Yes, every Church will be harmed by human failings.
However, it seems odd to me that you can object to “infallibility” (which only happens when so stated, not every thing out of a Pope's mouth is infallible, no Catholic believes that) -—
Anyway, since the Bible itself DID NOT EXIST until the Catholic Church CREATED IT, and since the Canons of the Church which accepted and rejected the various separate works of Scripture as part of that first Bible, all operated under the direction of a Pope -—
You had better hope that the Early Popes were INFALLIBLE!
“Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. Very conservetive and you will be able to follow the liturgy!”
And you will not hear partisan political advocacy from the pulpit, most likely not even any urging to be sure to vote or get involved in the political process.
Independent Baptist-very conservative, fundamentalist, differing degrees of strictness regarding personal standards of holiness (though all have high standards), practice Biblical separation. Though it would probably be extreme “culture shock” for you, coming from the Roman Catholic tradition. The churches are autonomous, though there are loose associations and fellowships between like churches.
Thank you for your efforts, but you are wasting your time here.
My first comment on this thread was to the thread’s author. I did not engage the committed catholics to debate, because it is worthless to do so.
You will not change my understanding of the Word of God—understanding that is given by the Holy Spirit ONLY, and I will not change your belief in catholicism.
There is no need to engage in useless arguments (even though I have wasted plenty of time in my life doing so).
I attend an Evangelical Free church(EFree). My impression is that many of the affiliated churches may differ. The one I attend keeps it simple and to the point. Five worship songs followed by a biblically based sermon. Good stuff.
Actually, it was STN that kiulled Jesus.
The OPC espouses double predestination, which is clearly unBiblical.
Do any Freepers attend services online? Just curious.
I am not LCMS, but I would agree that Roman Catholic looking for a Bible-based church ought to investigate a LCMS congregation; that or an Orthodox Church.
While neither are my favorites, their theologies are well within the orthodoxy of the historic Christian church.
I came home to Orthodoxy just a few years ago. It is Christianity’s best kept secret. ELCA had become Christianity Lite, of which I had no interest in maintaining.
I came home to Orthodoxy just a few years ago. It is Christianity’s best kept secret. ELCA had become Christianity Lite, of which I had no interest in maintaining.
I second that.
I second that.
As I tell people, the LCMS are the Christian Lutherans.
Well here is my church concept, while we are talking ideas:
www.worldviewchristianchurch.wordpress.com
Translate....please.
But where in Catholic Documents can you find a statement that the Church does not believe in the Bible, which is what you asserted in post 6, and what I challenged you on, providing a link to a papal document on the Bible that certainly does serve to indicate that the Church believes in the Bible?
You may disagree with the Church interpretation, but that does not mean that the Church does not believe in the Bible, just that the Church doesn’t believe in your interpretation of the Bible. And unless you are infallible, don’t worry (though given your confidence in your interpretation, you do seem to be under the impression that you are infallible.
We don’t pray to dead people—some people that are physically dead are alive with God—thus in Matthew 22:32 our Lord points out that Exod. 3:6 supposes Abraham,Isaac and Jacob are alive—the Saints are as alive as Abraham, Isaac,and Jacob.
We don’t worship bread-I just composted a bunch of bread-we worship the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of the Incarnate Son of God. If I wanted to worship bread, I would go to a bakery. Do you see Catholics worshipping random loaves in the grocery store?
If Peter wasn’t the first Pope, who was?
ME, infallible? HA!!! What a horrible joke!
You miss the mark by a country mile.
Please see my reply to Kansas in post #79, which also applies to you.
You can certainly ease on down your catholic road, but I will never join you there.
There is no need for us to waste our time on each other.
I so agree with your statement regarding Jesus and share your views on the Catholic church.
12yrs of Catholic school with elementary part being in Latin. My Grandma was a Catholic all her life until my grandpa was dying in hospital and she called our local priest to come and give him last rights. He responded, well I would but I am heading out the door for a golf tournament. After the funeral, my grandmother attended Assembly of God until she died. This was a woman who made pilgrimages to Carey, Ohio ( A Catholic Shrine) every year (and took us as well)...
Raised our kids Catholic, etc. Then one day, our priest after the liturgy starts telling us how we need to join AMWAY, etc. We got up and walked out. Never been to a Catholic church since.
I have gone to the Church of Nazarene for the last 10 years and love it. Jesus was a Nazarene. I love the Bible classes, our soup kitchens, the food pantry for the poor, the outreaches, visiting people in nursing homes and hospitals, etc....
I never learned so much about the Bible and how to have a personal relationship with the Lord until I left the Catholic church. I am forgiven of my sins by confessing to Jesus, not another “man who is a supposedly go between”...I was 40yrs old when I found out that Catholics in Middle ages charged people to “pray” for the sick and the dead; and used that money to buy homes, land and entertain mistresses. I can’t get over the gold and the riches of the Vatican.
That is not what Jesus had in mind for his “church”....
My first comment on this thread was to the thread’s author. I did not engage the committed catholics to debate, because it is worthless to do so.
I find it amazing that non-Catholics argue that the doctrine that the Holy Spirit guides one individual infallibly in certain circumstances is unbiblical and undermines Christ, and then confidentally assert that they themselves are guided by the Holy Spirit without error in many wider circumstances. To each his own Pope.
I was 40yrs old when I found out that Catholics in Middle ages charged people to “pray” for the sick and the dead; and used that money to buy homes, land and entertain mistresses. I can’t get over the gold and the riches of the Vatican.
What about Elijah?
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.”
II KINGS 2:11
and Mary?
n the early Church the relics of saints and martyrs were zealously sought after and prized, but no one ever claimed to have the bones of Mary. In fact, St John Damascene tells us:
“St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon [AD 451], made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened, upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven” (St John of Damascus, in Migne’s Patrologia Graeca Cursus Completus 96:1).
What? Are you seriously saying that because of no presence of some bones, that means a woman ascended into Heaven?
Have you seen all the criminal cold cases of missing bodies?
Wait. Ignore that last comment. Instead, please see comment #79, which also applies to you.
(As for Elijah, perhaps you should consult Jesus on Elijah’s whereabouts, because what Jesus said in John 3:13 may cause you some confusion.)
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