Startup Envia battery promises to slash EV costs

CNET ^ | February 26, 2012 | Martin LaMonica

[AJFavish]

With the auto industry pining for a battery breakthrough to lower electric vehicle costs, Envia Systems has some interesting performance data to share.

The five-year-old company today is expected to disclose technical details of its batteries which executives say could lead to cutting EV battery pack prices in half in three or four years. Envia Systems' batteries are being evaluated by a number of automakers, including its largest investor General Motors, according to CEO Atul Kapadia.

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57384864-76/startup-envia-battery-promises-to-slash-ev-costs/#ixzz1ncFoCgDL

[zeestephen]

In most of today's electric vehicles, it requires at least 250 pounds of batteries to provide the energy found in one gallon of gasoline.

Did I mention it takes 8 hours to charge these electrical behemoths?

[Oldhunk]

The Chevy Volt’s batteries, which hold the energy equivalent of one gallon of gas, weigh 400 lbs.

[GraceG]

[ Where is the research into Thorium Reactors? At least, there is something we have a high degree of confidence in seeing a return for our investment. ]

The chinese are and will eventually be selling us electrical power from such reactors.

[BwanaNdege]

You might find this interesting:

http://www.redstate.com/brookhaven/2012/02/19/one-gallon-%E2%80%93-the-achilles-heel-of-electric-cars/

[Alter Kaker]

How do they propose to charge this battery?

Electricity

Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t we still dependant upon foreign (and generally hostile) counties for our energy needs?

You're wrong. Vast majority of electricity in the United States is generated from coal (domestic), nuclear (domestic), hydro (domestic) or natural gas (domestic).

[mt tom]

how much does it cost for the gieco pig to keep the pinwheel fan going

[Moonman62]

I wish I had a dollar for every promise of a better battery over the past 40 years that never happened.

[wolf78]

Soooooo not breaking news. Hope it works out though. I just like technological progress. Leave the rest to the marketplace.

Lower cost is not what’s needed. It’s higher capacity.

Both will make EVs more attractive. Higher capacity for those that are looking for something that comes close to a 1-for-1 replacement for their old car. Lower costs will make EVs interesting for commuters in metropolitan areas. EVs cannot replace diesel vans or pick-up trucks right now, but cheaper batteries can grow the niche.

What’s the average distance and electric can travel without a recharge?

Depends on whether you have a range extender (i.e. a gasoline-powered generator on board). Without usually around 100 miles or so. Enough for a half-hour commute and a trip to the grocery store, but you'll need to rent a "real" car for that 500 miles weekend trip. With a range extender and smaller batteries you have an electrical range of only 30-40 miles or so (still enough for a very short commute or the way to soccer practice), after which the generator kicks in, meaning practically unlimited range but gasoline consumption just like in every other car.

[Tunehead54]

Reference bump - LFTR

I’ll take three please. ;-)

[BfloGuy]

The five-year-old company today is expected to disclose technical details of its batteries which executives say could lead to cutting EV battery pack prices in half in three or four years.

And we can bring this to fruition if only the federal government will invest $500 million for the children, for women and minorities, for energy independence, for hope and change, for sustainable development, for undocumented immigrants, for voters without ID, for the children (oops, already mentioned them), for . . .

[KTM rider]

I want to believe in magic too ! Can I get a grant for a few billion ?

[traderrob6]

About what I thought, good article, thanks.

[Hodar]

I should have been a little less obtuse. We have marginally enough power, electrically speaking - in the US to meet current needs. That’s why we have rolling blackouts during peak demand in the Summer time.

Now, on top of an already exhausted electrical grid; how do you propose we charge the energy required to power our transportation needs, when we can barely meet our residential and commercial needs.

We are not addign new nuclear, hydro or coal fired electrical plants; in fact Obama has set of goal of “Bankrupting” these companies. Natural Gas electical production is very expensive, these are used as secondary ‘booster’ facilities to push through during peak demand times.

[Alter Kaker]

Hodar, I want to congratulate you on creating a post with the greatest number of non-facts I have ever seen. Only one sentence, your first, is correct.

I should have been a little less obtuse.

This is true! Everything else, not so much.

We have marginally enough power, electrically speaking - in the US to meet current needs. That’s why we have rolling blackouts during peak demand in the Summer time

FACT: On the whole, the US has plenty of baseload supply to meet demand. Some areas have challenges meeting peak demand (hence the need to build peaker plants and invest in transmission infrastructure). This has nothing to do with dependence on foreign fuels, your initial claim. Any future problems meeting baseload demand can easily be met by investments in new baseload power plants powered by domestic energy supplies, or proven investments in baseload reduction (efficiency, load management, etc).

We are not addign new nuclear, hydro or coal fired electrical plants;

This is simply inaccurate. I would add in addition to the above that we are also adding natural gas powered plants as well.

Natural Gas electical production is very expensive, these are used as secondary ‘booster’ facilities to push through during peak demand times.

Wrong.

[Hodar]

Obama shutting down Coal Power Plants: Google is your friend.

Power Grids at Capacity: Source

Nuclear Plants going up: As of 2010, demand for nuclear power softened in America, and some companies withdrew their applications for licenses to build.[2][3] Ground has been broken on two new nuclear plants with a total of four reactors. A reactor currently under construction at Watts Bar, Tennessee was begun in 1973 and may be completed in 2012. Of the 104 reactors now operating in the U.S., ground was broken on all of them in 1974 or earlier.[2][3] In September 2010, Matthew Wald from the New York Times reported that "the nuclear renaissance is looking small and slow at the moment".[4]"

Source

Plants being De-commissioned:

In the U.S. there are 13 reactors that have permanently shut down and are in some phase of decommissioning, but none of them have completed the process.Same source as above.

And speaking of Hydroelectric

Currently Hydro power is 7% of the total US Energy Budget. This has been going decreasing with time

Source

Finally, let's go to Natural Gas where we can read up on this for a few seconds.

However, high natural gas prices caused the cost of electricity from natural gas to be higher than that from coal. Because of this, and because in many regions there was surplus electricity capacity, electricity prices were not high enough to make natural gas generation economic. As a result, natural gas combined cycle (NGCC) units averaged about 40% capacity factors in 2007 compared to well over 70% in 2002.

Dept. of Energy

Where do you get your FACTS? Seems like you are making them up in your head, and then calling me a liar. Let's review, shall we? Obama and the EPA are shutting down Coal fired power production. We are decommissioning more Nuke plants than we are building. The ones coming online were started prior to 1974. Hydro is on the decline. Natural Gas is (gasp) just like I said it was "too expensive" - it's that whole Demand vs Supply law. AS we demand more Natural Gas, the price goes up - so it's not economical to use ... back in 2002.

Now, how to you plan to charge all those nice fancy car batteries?

But wait, it gets better. A gas motor gets ~20% efficieny. What do we get with a generator? Well, let's say we get 80%, then we have transmission losses, then we have transformer losses getting it from the 100KV range back down to 220/120, then we get more losses charging the battery, and more loss when we discharge the battery. Bottom line - gasoline engines may be more efficient from the get go.

[Alter Kaker]

You're a textbook example of the dangers of Google -- aka, just because it's on the internet doesn't make it so.

In no particular order, let's go down your syllabus of idiocy.

1. You cite a 15 year old home-made website from an astrophysicist (huh?) at the University of Oregon to argue some point about hydro power not being sufficient for something. The fact is that North American hydropower capacity is way up -- the Canadians are adding as much as 14,000 megawatts of generating capacity over the next decade.

2. Power grids at capacity? Really? Actually, that's not what the decade-old article you posted claims at all. Next time, try reading. I quote: "The system is not outdated, it is just misused,” says Casazza. “We should look hard at the new rules, see what is good for the system as a whole, and throw out the rest.” Some changes could be made before next summer, and at no cost to ratepayers. For one thing, FERC or Congress could rescind Order 888 and reduce the long-distance energy flows that stress the system. The article actually calls for FERC-rules changes to reduce some stresses on the grid that led to the 2003 NY blackout.

As for coal plants being shut down, according to the Energy Information Administration, coal generating capacity is at its highest point ever. And FERC won't allow a plant to be taken off line (do you even know what FERC is?) without sufficient capacity to operate the grid.

What's next? Oh yes, nuclear. You are apparently unaware that nuclear capacity is also at its highest point ever, or that a new nuclear plant is actively under construction in Georgia.

[Hodar]

We are NOT increasing our Power Grid - in fact we are decommissioning power production. We are not increasing our Hydroelectric, because of EPA, environmentalists and federal regulations.

However, our population is continuing to increase, as is our average daily consumption. It's not enough to build a power plant next door, you have to be able to move Megawatts across the country - without having avalanche failures like we have witnessed in highly populated areas.

Can you provide any sources that dispute this? Anything? The observable fact of the matter is that blackouts were unthinkable of just 10 years ago; but are now a part of life for many people in the USA every summer.

Can you site anything -that says our capacity is increasing, and outpacing our population growth and yearly increase in energy consumption? Because, as of today the electrical energy consumption in the US only includes heating/AC, residential and commercial consumption in any significant calculations. Electical cars, should they ever come into production - will mean a drastic increase in electrical energy consumption.

Think of it this way; let's pretend that an electrical car will half your transportation costs for fuel. If you are spending $400/month on gasoline - what happens to the grid if in a very short period of time (less than 10 years) the average cost of power per home goes up by $200?

Ain't no thing as a free lunch. That energy has to come from somewhere - the issue is that our energy consumption has outpaced our energy production capabilties. Can you show me anything showing otherwise? Being at it's highest point ever, well ... duh! Guess what? Our energy demand is at it's highest point ever too. And our population isn't decreasing either. We need much, much more than what we have.

[Cringing Negativism Network]

GM huh?

How’s that $4.25 gas price, helping General Motors’ vehicle sales?...

[UCANSEE2]

Peter Gleick thinks that once you get the car going, you can just stick a hand held generator connected to a pinwheel out the window.

Well, hopefully he got the auto instead of the stick, because he's not going to have a hand free to shift.

[UCANSEE2]

What’s the average distance and electric can travel without a recharge?

What's the average distance between your house and a remote charging station?