Posted on 03/07/2012 5:42:45 AM PST by thackney
More natural gas-powered vehicles will hit the market soon, as rising gasoline prices, booming natural gas production and proposed tax credits make them a more attractive option. But they’re a long way from being a common sight in U.S. driveways.
Chrysler will sell a Ram 2500 Heavy Duty pickup that runs on compressed natural gas starting in July. The truck has both a gasoline tank and a natural gas storage tank, and its engine shifts seamlessly between the two power sources. The truck can run for 255 miles on natural gas and another 367 miles using gasoline.
Chrysler will have competition. Late this year, General Motors Co. will sell natural-gas versions of two pickups — the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra 2500 HD. The GM trucks will run on gasoline and natural gas for 650 miles. Ford Motor Co. has offered natural-gas ready pickups and vans since 2009.
Using the original gasoline engine and the only change is to feed it with a much less energy dense fuel like they did in the 70 is a joke.
It would be like cutting the gasoline fuel pump to half flow and expecting the same engine performance.
The new applications use an engine design for this lower energy fuel. That is why it cost so much.
Joke or not.....it worked.
I guess....it always seems to me...the MSM touts vehicles that run on natgas as something new...when they aren't.
Maybe that was more my point?
I realize how much the new engines cost...that work totally on natgas.
Thanks-
Some of the nuts here cannot understand the difference in the compression ratio of a diesel and a gasoline engine. An engine that runs on anything other than diesel has a much reduced compression ration, it becomes a low horse power motor, and will not pull a 80,000 pond load at speed. A diesel ratio is about 16 to 1, and as high as 20 to 1. A gas engine about 10 to 1, with high performance gas at 14 to 1/ currently only in racing .
Stationary Diesel engines have been dual-fueled with Natural Gas under compression for a very long time. This isn’t a new theory but the application into the transportation industry.
Natural Gas BTUs have been significantly cheaper than Diesel for a long time. The difference now is the savings have become so large you can pay off the new infrastructure in less than a year and still have savings.
What I would have expected...but glad to have the confirmation.
"That is why today Haynesville drilling has been falling off while Eagle Ford and other wet formations are booming. The liquids have become the money making target for much new drilling and the Natural Gas is a by-product."
No surprise there. Story may be apochryphal...some farm guy had a pretty "wet" natgas well (in Texas, as I recall) with not much remaining total flow. He rigged a "ambient temperature "still" to pass the C1 to C5, and condensed the "highers". The "highers" were almost a perfect gasoline fraction. He ran his farm vehicles from the "still".
That has been done by several but people really need to know the composition. Some fields produce more H2S (hydrogen sulfide) over time. In very low concentrations it smells like rotten eggs. Slightly higher but still relatively low cannot be smelled but kills rather quickly.
My point exactly...NG may be cheaper per volume, but you have to burn MUCH more of it to do the same amount of work, and in many applications it simply will not be able to do the same job a diesel engine can do.
It has it’s applications, for sure, but it will never replace diesel altogether. It’s foolish even to try.
You should apply your same logic to power generation.
Natural Gas is far cheaper on a BTU basis. I am talking about energy content, not volume.
Honda isn't the opnly one: "General Motors Co. (GM), the world’s largest automaker, plans to begin taking orders in April on pickups that run on both gasoline and compressed natural gas, potentially reducing costs for users. The Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra 2500 HD extended-cab pickups will be offered with a 6.0-liter, V-8 engine that can “seamlessly” transition between natural gas and gasoline, the Detroit-based automaker said today in a statement."
Those are interesting points. I was assuming, and perhaps wrongly, that the cost of natural gas as a fuel should be the biggest consideration. The energy properties of the two fuels I had not considered. I just assumed that a nat gas fueled engine would do the work as well as a diesel powered engine.
I do disagree that government tax incentives will play no part in the expansion of a nationwide natural gas distribution and fueling system. Whether or not is should is another discussion altogether. Properly applied governmental assistance is a quite legitimate role for the state to play - assuming they deal it out fairly where needed and don’t play political favorites.
You’re welcome. Wish I had some money - Westport stock up 6% since posting that yesterday.
In economic terms of delivery rotating horsepower, natural gas is far cheaper. That is why our electrical power plants long ago dropped the diesel and heavier oil fueled and built lots of Natural Gas plants over the decades.
The problem with natural gas is the mobile application to transportation. CNG and even LNG takes more volume and space has value in a vehicle. You either have to get bigger or give up cargo space or give up range.
So fleet service vehicles that can hold enough fuel for a reasonable amount of work before returning to a service center (like a municipal bus or garbage truck) it is gaining in popularity for the cost savings.
Once the infrastructure grows, the range will become less of an issue.
Crank damage and excessive damage to the drive train are also common. It just is not naturally engineered for diesel engines.
The current kits are just a sprayer that goes into the intake after the turbo, and it still causes the fuel to fire early, actually acts more like advancing the timing than anything, too much and time for a new twenty thousand dollar engine job.
Then don't tell that to Wesport who's stock has been on a tear and their LPG Direct Injector for diesels.
Look, Wesport and Orbital Engine out of AU both have the techology. OE is playing with adding LPG DI for off road heavy equipment. I had a discussion when he was alive with my diesel guru (RIP old friend) who was the ulimate diesel guy. We ran the numbers of LPG vs. Diesel for lets say a mining operation and it was huge. What they burn a day would shock you.
Also Clean Energy's 150 LPG filling stations at Pilot Truck Stops for Trucks that will burn LPG, the project to be done by the end of 2013.
It is coming and yes for Diesels...
Does a real good job at home heating and boiling water, not much else.
Yeah, that providing 25% of the nation's electricity is such a minor use.
You sound like a Luddite in 1920 describing electricity.
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