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Kagan: ‘It’s Just A Boatload Of Federal Money,’ ‘It Doesn’t Sound Coercive To Me’
CNSNews.com ^ | March 28, 2012 | Gregory Gwyn-Williams Jr.

Posted on 03/29/2012 10:05:34 AM PDT by CNSNews.com

Video in Story...

Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan defended the expansion of Medicaid under Obamacare today by arguing that "It's just a boatload of federal money for you to take and spend" and concluding "It doesn't sound coercive to me."

Kagan made her comments at today's Supreme Court hearing while questioning attorney Paul D. Clement who was presenting an oral argument on behalf of 26 states seeking to have the federal health care law declared unconstitutional:

Mr. Clement: "Mr. Chief Justice and may it please the court. The constitutionality of the act’s massive expansion of Medicaid depends on the answer to two related questions. First, is the expansion coercive? And second, does that coercion matter?"

Justice Kagan: "Mr. Clement, can I ask you as just a matter of clarification; would you be making the same argument if, instead of the federal government picking up ninety percent of the cost, the federal government picked a hundred percent of the cost?"

Clement: "Justice Kagan if everything else in the statute remained the same I would be making the exact same argument."

Kagan: "The exact same argument so, so that really reduces to the question of: why is a big gift from the federal government a matter of coercion?

"In other words, the federal government is here saying: we’re giving you a boatload of money. There are no, is no matching funds requirement. There are no extraneous conditions attached to it.

"It’s just a boatload of federal money for you to take and spend on poor people’s healthcare. It doesn’t sound coercive to me, I have to tell you."

See more "Right Views, Right Now"


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: elenakagan; obamacare; scotus; scotusocareday3
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1 posted on 03/29/2012 10:05:38 AM PDT by CNSNews.com
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To: CNSNews.com

This women makes misogyny sound like a rather reasonable outlook on life.


2 posted on 03/29/2012 10:06:52 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: CNSNews.com

Just a boatload of money. I wonder where it comes from?


3 posted on 03/29/2012 10:09:01 AM PDT by goldi
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To: lastchance

Does Michael Moore make hating men seem reasonable?


4 posted on 03/29/2012 10:09:32 AM PDT by txrangerette ("HOLD TO THE TRUTH...SPEAK WITHOUT FEAR" - Glenn Beck)
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To: goldi
Just a boatload of money. I wonder where it comes from?

From Obama's "stash"?

5 posted on 03/29/2012 10:10:59 AM PDT by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: CNSNews.com

Is this woman a lunatic? The Federal government has no “gift” money to give. It doesn’t produce, it consumes! The coercion happens prior to the gifting!


6 posted on 03/29/2012 10:11:07 AM PDT by liberalh8ter (Barack has a memory like a steel trap; it's a gift ~ Michelle Obama)
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To: txrangerette
Does Michael Moore make hating men seem reasonable?

If he were a man, it might. Fortunately, he is just a pig that talks. So it's a moot point :)

7 posted on 03/29/2012 10:12:14 AM PDT by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man. Never trust anyone who hasn't been punched in the face)
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To: CNSNews.com
The money must be from Obama’s stash. It's free.
8 posted on 03/29/2012 10:12:40 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: CNSNews.com

“It’s just a boatload of federal money for you to take and spend on poor people’s healthcare. It doesn’t sound coercive to me, I have to tell you.” Which was followed by ...from his stash..OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA.....


9 posted on 03/29/2012 10:13:08 AM PDT by WinMod70
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To: CNSNews.com

Ya can’t fix stupid.


10 posted on 03/29/2012 10:13:43 AM PDT by oneolcop (Lead, Follow or Get the Hell Out of the Way!)
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To: goldi

You care where it came from. The left doesn’t care.

Her point was not even that...her point was, there’s no coercion.

All you have to do is spend it as we tell you, you don’t have to spend state money on this expansion, so where’s the coercion?

“spend it as we tell you to spend it”

And if you refuse, we will punish you by cutting off other funds.

DUH.


11 posted on 03/29/2012 10:14:19 AM PDT by txrangerette ("HOLD TO THE TRUTH...SPEAK WITHOUT FEAR" - Glenn Beck)
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To: CNSNews.com

That money gets phased out so is useless in the long run. The long run is what states are complaining about.

If that doesn’t make sense to you, then have I got a deal for you.

I am willing to sell you my house such that you won’t have to pay me any money for the first two years. After that, you need to pay me $50,000 a month for life.

Any takers?


12 posted on 03/29/2012 10:14:56 AM PDT by fruser1
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To: goldi
Just a boatload of money. I wonder where it comes from?

These Obama-bucks come from Obama-boats moored in Obama Harbor.

13 posted on 03/29/2012 10:15:09 AM PDT by Night Hides Not (My dream ticket for 2012 is John Galt & Dagny Taggart!)
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To: CNSNews.com

14 posted on 03/29/2012 10:16:26 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: CNSNews.com

From what I have read about Kagan’s background and outlook - I highly doubt she believes in the Constitution as worded.

I am sure she views it as an interesting document for the period in which it was created - and I am also sure she views the Constitution as irrelevant for our present age.


15 posted on 03/29/2012 10:16:41 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: CNSNews.com

16 posted on 03/29/2012 10:18:42 AM PDT by tomkat ( FU.baraq !)
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To: CNSNews.com

Reading this make me want to break into her house and take everything in it.


17 posted on 03/29/2012 10:20:05 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: CNSNews.com

Elmer Kagan thinks money grows on trees.


18 posted on 03/29/2012 10:20:05 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.)
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To: CNSNews.com

The government, by its very nature, cannot give except what it first takes.


19 posted on 03/29/2012 10:26:12 AM PDT by Mr.Unique (The government, by its very nature, cannot give except what it first takes.)
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To: chesley; lastchance

As between being a man, or a woman, which is Michael Moore?

I’ll tell you why using him as an example is a moot point, and it’s not because he’s a pig.

Justice Breyer will vote with Kagan.

He’s kind of a likable idiot.

John Paul Stevens is who Kagan replaced. He was a huge lib icon. They said people liked him. Another idiot.

So, are Justices Breyer and Stevens examples of why hating men is reasonable?

You get my drift.

I’ll flip the argument.

Margaret Thatcher.

Would she make a good case for misogeny, or would she destroy the case for it?

The making of this Kagan issue an issue of justifiable misogeny, which is against ALL women, is where the wrong turn was taken.


20 posted on 03/29/2012 10:26:51 AM PDT by txrangerette ("HOLD TO THE TRUTH...SPEAK WITHOUT FEAR" - Glenn Beck)
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To: CNSNews.com

All matching fund programs where the Feds tax the states generally and then offer the money back to the states on the condition that the state implement the Fed’s program is coercive.
It’s not something the state would do on it’s on. It’s not something the FED has power to legislate directly. So they use the power of the federal government to tax and hand out funds, to coerce states to do things the federal gov’t is not authorized to legislate on.


21 posted on 03/29/2012 10:27:15 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: PGR88

Other justices on the bench should have put pressure on her to have to recuse herself. She should not even be a factor in the decision.


22 posted on 03/29/2012 10:28:01 AM PDT by toolman1401
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To: txrangerette

He makes hating Liberals seem sensible.


23 posted on 03/29/2012 10:29:48 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: CNSNews.com

A Justice of the Supreme Court made this comment. Wow!

Let’s list the coercive affects (albeit indirect).

Insurance companies are coerced to compete.
Doctors are coerced into price fixing
Patients are coerced into government provided insurance
Taxpayers are coerced into accepting more debt or higher taxes


24 posted on 03/29/2012 10:30:09 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (With regards to the GOP: I am prodisestablishmentarianistic!)
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To: txrangerette
Clement is sharp, you just know he was biting his tongue not to embarrass Obongo’s girl.
25 posted on 03/29/2012 10:31:42 AM PDT by DAC21
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To: goldi
This is unhinged and disgusting. As others have written here, the government has no money other than that which it takes from us. It doesn't produce any products it can sell, it doesn't have factories, it doesn't do anything that generates revenue other than taking money from others.

Poor people have access to health care in this country. Further, because we have the most advanced medical care on the planet, they have had access to things they would never have access to in many if not most socialist countries (like redo heart valve replacements for IV drug abusers who have recurrent endocarditis).

I listened to a union protester on the radio today talking about how health care is a right. It is not a right. It is a blessing and a privilege. In this country you can be unemployed but have lots of children that someone else pays for, and at the same time you can be way overweight, and smoke, and find money for those extra calories and for cigarettes, and find money for a cell phone, etc. etc., and then claim that you have a right for the services of doctors and nurses etc., irrespective of your own efforts or responsibilities.

We cannot and will not survive as a nation unless and until we call out the ‘entitled’ and accept as a society that few things in life just exist for the taking, but instead have to be worked for. When you take without giving you are parasitizing others. That's not fair - to use one of the favorite words of the left.

26 posted on 03/29/2012 10:32:13 AM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: Tenacious 1

“A Justice of the Supreme Court made this comment. Wow!”

That’s because she was never chosen by merit.


27 posted on 03/29/2012 10:33:20 AM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: CNSNews.com
"It’s just a boatload of federal money for you to take and spend on poor people’s healthcare"

What an asshat.

She was put on The Court SPECIFICALLY to help re-distribute wealth, and Rule that to do so is Constitutional?

THERE IS NO FEDERAL MONEY!

It's taxpayers' personal money, that is TAKEN, to hand out to benefit someone else.

WHERE in the Constitution does it say that individuals can be "ENRICHED", by taking from one, and giving to another, at the GOVERNMENT'S discretion?

28 posted on 03/29/2012 10:36:33 AM PDT by traditional1 (Don't gotsta worry 'bout no mo'gage, don't gotsta worry 'bout no gas; Obama gonna take care o' me!)
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To: CNSNews.com
“A GIFT from the Federal Government.”

This woman is extremely dangerous, to be in such a high position of power. Her conflict of interest alone, in this case and her refusal to recuse herself is an impeachable offense.

If Congress fails to vote this woman out on that grounds, then we are doomed as a Republic.

29 posted on 03/29/2012 10:37:37 AM PDT by PSYCHO-FREEP (If you come to a fork in the road, take it........)
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To: CNSNews.com

What else do you expect from someone who has never held a real job? All money belongs to the government and, if you’re good, they may give some to you.


30 posted on 03/29/2012 10:38:16 AM PDT by pabianice (")
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

A fantastic part of the oral arguments was when Kagan produced a football from under her robes, stood up on the bench and spiked it - but my personal favorite was when she centered her defense of the Individual Mandate on the Mac-a-rena’s world-wide influence.

Clearly, we have ourselves an informed and serious Justice in Kagan.

oh.... and /sarc


31 posted on 03/29/2012 10:42:49 AM PDT by Noamie
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To: CNSNews.com
"Kagan: "'The exact same argument so, so that really reduces to the question of: why is a big gift from the federal government a matter of coercion?
"'In other words, the federal government is here saying: we’re giving you a boatload of money. There are no, is no matching funds requirement. There are no extraneous conditions attached to it.
"'It’s just a boatload of federal money for you to take and spend on poor people’s healthcare. It doesn’t sound coercive to me, I have to tell you.'"

This statement tells us everything we need to know about Justice Kagan's concept of "coercive power" versus "individual liberty" and the Constitution's protections for the latter.

America's Founders viewed "government" as "coercive" by nature.

America's Founders understood that "government" creates no money, has no money, and cannot "gift" money without first "taking" it from someone--a "coercive" act in itself.

Besides, this "boatload of money" is not "federal money." It is "the People's" money, and who is naive or uninformed enough to believe that "taking" it from the people, sending it to Washington, and then doling it out to the States is an efficient way to provide "poor people's health care"????Oh, how far we have come from the wisdom which gave birth to America's Constitution, America's liberty for all, and America's prosperity and greatness!!!

32 posted on 03/29/2012 10:43:49 AM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

I have a forty-something male colleague whom I feel very sorry for because he looks a whole lot like Elena Kagan...


33 posted on 03/29/2012 10:45:10 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: CNSNews.com

Some people really are as dumb as they look, and Kagan is one of them.


34 posted on 03/29/2012 10:46:20 AM PDT by AtlasStalled
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To: CNSNews.com

Kagan is either utterly stupid, or just a reflexively lying Commie.

Likely both.


35 posted on 03/29/2012 10:48:48 AM PDT by EyeGuy (2012: When the Levee Breaks)
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To: CNSNews.com

The money comes from taxes removed from the states. It is then offered back to the states with strings attached. If the states refuse the attached strings then the money formerly belonging to the states’ taxayers is not forthcoming. That sounds like coercion to me. In fact, it is at the very core of the problem with the federal income tax and direct withholding. The states effectively have ceded their ability to say “no” to the federal monster, lest they be extorted by the threat of no money.


36 posted on 03/29/2012 10:53:08 AM PDT by Paine in the Neck (Romney's judicial appointments were more radical than Obama's)
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To: CNSNews.com
why is a big gift from the federal government a matter of coercion?

And she is on the SCOTUS? Unbelieveable! This statement is a nice window into the mind of how a liberal, elite jurist views the taxpayer, poor people and, the Constitution, all in one sentence.

37 posted on 03/29/2012 10:59:11 AM PDT by capydick (''Life's tough.......it's even tougher if you're stupid.'')
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Kagan thinks money grows on trees.

Not al all. She knows where money comes from. It comes from the taxpayers whose every cent is a gift from government. This is how liberals think. If you hear someone saying that a tax cut "has to be paid for," then you know that the speaker thinks all money actually belongs to the government, and whatever the government allows you to keep is just a gift. They have noconcept that money is earned, since they're usually lifelong government parasites who've been growing fat of the labor of others as long as they can remember. They actually think that they're entitled to everything you make.

Example the Pelosi hag - She never worked a day in her life. Even as a child she was chauffered in a taxpayer funded limousine.

38 posted on 03/29/2012 10:59:24 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: CNSNews.com

Worst appointment ever

Next to The Wise Latina


39 posted on 03/29/2012 11:00:48 AM PDT by A_Former_Democrat (Hey "Unifier" and MSM: Demand Spike Lee apologize.)
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To: CNSNews.com

Scalia should have jumped in and said, “Mr Clement, where does the federal government ultimately get their “big boatload of money” from? (Hint: taxpayers).

Some “free” gift.

It’s FREE because everyone is forced to pay for it because we have to mandate they take it? This is the liberal illogic working here.

We are paying for all of it, the money is taken from us, by various means and routes, but all of it has to be paid by citizens. One way or the other. It’s NOT free.

Since when is it a “gift” if you’re the one paying for all of it? It’s such a great gift the government says if you refuse it we’ll fine or jail you? It’s so great the government has to use its coercive force to ensure you take it?

Some free gift.

Mandatory ponzi scheme (another one). Social Security is the other one. I didn’t even sign up for it personally, but I can’t get out of it and get back what was taken from me. Talk about a violation of contract law.


40 posted on 03/29/2012 11:10:17 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: A_Former_Democrat

“Worst appointment ever
Next to The Wise Latina”

Justice Sotomayor is a genius compared to this angry young man Kagan. I think she might (I stress might) actually strike down the individual mandate, but will honor her Fuerher and make a case that the rest of the law can stand. I think that’s what the libs want anyway ... they need this healthcare crisis to justify their miserable existence.

All apologies to Billy Joel, but when I think of Kagan, the song Angry Young Man comes to mind along with the flavor of bile :-) ). I can tolerate a Sotomayor on the USSC (I STRESS TOLERATE ... no, I’d never vote for someone like her were I ever in the Senate). Kagan strikes me as a miserable guy aware of his own failures, but too arrogant to address them. He knows he got where his is with his rugged looks and angry agenda ... nothing more ;-) .


41 posted on 03/29/2012 11:18:28 AM PDT by edh (I need a better tagline)
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To: A_Former_Democrat

“Worst appointment ever
Next to The Wise Latina”

Justice Sotomayor is a genius compared to this angry young man Kagan. I think Sotomayor might (I stress might) actually strike down the individual mandate, but will honor her Fuerher and make a case that the rest of the law can stand. I think that’s what the libs want anyway ... they need this healthcare crisis to justify their miserable existence.

All apologies to Billy Joel, but when I think of Kagan, the song Angry Young Man comes to mind along with the flavor of bile :-) ). I can tolerate a Sotomayor on the USSC (I STRESS TOLERATE ... no, I’d never vote for someone like her were I ever in the Senate). Kagan strikes me as a miserable guy aware of his own failures, but too arrogant to address them. He knows he got where his is with his rugged looks and angry agenda ... nothing more ;-) .


42 posted on 03/29/2012 11:18:53 AM PDT by edh (I need a better tagline)
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To: CNSNews.com

She is a boat load of fat head.


43 posted on 03/29/2012 11:21:05 AM PDT by bmwcyle (I am ready to serve Jesus on Earth because the GOP failed again)
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To: txrangerette

Well, although I don’t know what was in the heart of the original poster, I strongly suspect he was making a joke, and the comment shouldn’t be taken too seriously.

There’s probably a word for that, just as there are figures of speech such as a methaphor, or a simile. I can’t think what it is, though.


44 posted on 03/29/2012 11:25:09 AM PDT by chesley (Eat what you want, and die like a man. Never trust anyone who hasn't been punched in the face)
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To: oneolcop
Ya can’t fix stupid.

But, you can put it on the Supreme Court. :-(

45 posted on 03/29/2012 11:35:26 AM PDT by FreeAtlanta (Liberty and Justice for ALL)
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To: CNSNews.com

I saw the headline and thought this was Jon Semmons’s satire.
“why is a big gift from the federal government a matter of coercion?”
Because it’s taken from us peons, Kagan—you dishonest dyke bonehead. All of you federal parasites are just “useless eaters.” She really doesn’t have a clue. She’s just a flat political hack.
It looks like we’re close to the point of refreshing the tree of liberty. How did it come to this? A partisan knucklehead like this on the US Supreme Court.


46 posted on 03/29/2012 11:37:21 AM PDT by tumblindice (our new, happy lives)
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To: oneolcop

“Ya can’t fix stupid.”

That’s only because you haven’t tried using a big enough hammer.

The right size hammer will fix anything.


47 posted on 03/29/2012 11:50:34 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: CNSNews.com

Actually, if all they wanted to do was cover more people, all they had to do was expand Medicaid. That could have been done with the stroke of a pen, it didn’t require 2700 pages of legaleze to do it. Yes, it would have cost money, but they are spending the money either way and they obviously had the votes to do it.

They said they were worried about uninsured people. They had an easy solution at their fingertips. They chose to take over the entire industry instead because that was their actual intent.

They didn’t take over an industry to help poor people, because poor people were already covered. They didn’t take it over to help the uninsured working poor, because that could have been done by expanding Medicaid. They used the poor as an excuse to take over the industry because taking over was their goal.


48 posted on 03/29/2012 11:55:12 AM PDT by marron
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To: CNSNews.com

its magic,from unicorns....

why dont they just give us all millions and pay for everything then?

want to fly to Mars...no problem, justice kegan has the answer, here is a boatload of money...on your way...next, what would you like ?

who knew....santa exists....its name is kagan


49 posted on 03/29/2012 12:15:24 PM PDT by Irishguy
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To: CNSNews.com

If she had any class at all she would excuse herself from this case.


50 posted on 03/29/2012 12:44:00 PM PDT by GOPJ (Democrat-Media Complex - buried stories and distorted facts... freeper 'andrew' Breitbart)
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