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Bond Hearing Testimony Reveals Huge Hole In State's Case Against George Zimmerman !
Sun-Sentinel ^ | Vanity

Posted on 04/20/2012 8:54:37 AM PDT by MindBender26

Among all the coverage of Zimmerman being granted bail, most reporters are missing the most important detail of the day. The State's investigator admitted, under oath, that they have no way to disprove Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon Martin started the flight and assaulted him.

The details are buried deep in the story, but they are crucial:

Gilbreath is the State's Investigator:
O'Mara is Zimmerman's attorney:

(from the story)

"During further questioning by O'Mara, Gilbreath admitted that the state has no evidence who started the fight. There is also no evidence that Zimmerman didn't walk back to his car after chasing Martin on foot, as the defendant has claimed."

That speaks to, make that screams Stand Your Ground, and combined with new pictures of a bleeding and battered Zimmerman taken three minutes after the police arrived, it's all becoming so very clear to legal observers that Zimmerman walks on a SYG motion or at the least a SD verdict.

(Excerpt) Read more at southflorida.sun-sentinel.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: blackkk; florida; georgezimmerman; trayvon; trayvonmartin; zimmerman; zimmermanhearing
AMF
1 posted on 04/20/2012 8:54:42 AM PDT by MindBender26
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To: MindBender26

Well we all knew that. There is no question that there is no evidence on that issue. All the evidence is circumstantial. (Typical)

Not a revelation. Well ... I guess not for attorneys. Not picking on the OP. Hope it doesn’t come off that way. =)


2 posted on 04/20/2012 8:58:31 AM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: MindBender26

Gilbreath makes the Keystone Kops look competent.

The investigator also admitted that he hasn’t seen or requested GZ’s medical report.


3 posted on 04/20/2012 8:59:12 AM PDT by maggief
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To: MindBender26

I wonder if you can still donate through therealgeorgezimmerman.com


4 posted on 04/20/2012 9:05:49 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: MindBender26

This opens the state up to a malicious prosecution suit.


5 posted on 04/20/2012 9:06:15 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: MindBender26

I happen to have today off from work so I watched the bail hearing. WOW..O’Mara was able to think on his feet with speed and accuracy- he nailed the state, NAILED them. He was not prepared to have a witness from the state- he asked if one was present in a kind of off-handed way when lo and behold...here comes the dufus!

Pray for rain all weekend to keep Sanford cool...


6 posted on 04/20/2012 9:06:39 AM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: MindBender26

ROR was out of the question but 15k is pretty darn close to that for a 2nd Degree Murder charge. Sure doesn’t sound like there was anything special about that prosecutor. I’m sorry that I was so taken in by the media barrage at the beginning of this.


7 posted on 04/20/2012 9:08:06 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Steyn: Obama sez: "Nice little Supreme Court you got here. Shame if anything were to happen to it.")
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To: All

What pisses me off are all the cowards who are kicking this down the road to the next guy. Starting with the governor appointing a special prosecutor so he can say he did his job. The special prosecutor filing charges so she can say she did her job. The first judge volunteering information so she could drop the hot potatoe (I believe all this info was there when she was named judge). Now they’ll give it to this judge and make him make the decision. I predict his decision will be to hand the potatoe to a jury.

None of these people are concerned about justice. Their only concern is not pissing off the blacks and causing a riot. Maybe it’s time the whites started acting like blacks but only to make sure justice is served.


8 posted on 04/20/2012 9:12:24 AM PDT by Terry Mross
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: SE Mom

The great thing about it is now that the testimony has been recorded, the dufus (as you kindly put it) will have to stick to what he said on the record. It’s now sworn testimony. He will be skewered later as well as he was today. Gotta love it!


10 posted on 04/20/2012 9:22:41 AM PDT by FamiliarFace
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To: MindBender26

AMF????


11 posted on 04/20/2012 9:30:12 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: RIghtwardHo

You think they have circumstantial evidence, as opposed to direct evidence, that Zimmerman committed murder, or even manslaughter?

They do not.

On another thread you claimed that he could be convicted of murder 2 if a jury believes he continued to “pursue” Martin at a key point in the narrative.

I asked you there, and here, what is meant by “pursue”? The defense will have a grand romp with that one. All evidence shows him to be watching Martin and trying to help police with the location so they could send someone. He observed suspicious behaviour which could easily have been Martin casing the backs of dwellings, in the dark and a rainstorm, and was trying to direct the police to his location.

Therefore, even if he continued to track Martin...not saying he did, after a key point...but even if he did, he was trying to id his location for police.

This is a dream defense case. WHo calls the police non emergency number and stays on the line with them, while intending to attack someone they are watching???

You tell me.

Circumstantial evidence, indeed!

All, PRO Zimmerman.


12 posted on 04/20/2012 9:30:31 AM PDT by txrangerette ("HOLD TO THE TRUTH...SPEAK WITHOUT FEAR" - Glenn Beck 3)
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To: RIghtwardHo

I wouldn’t even characterize the evidence as circumstantial...in fact, I am at a loss as to what the ‘evidence’ is. As far as I can tell, they have:

1. Martin’s mother says its his voice yelling for help. My response - if that were true, why isn’t this a First Degree Murder Case? Everybody knows its impossible to identify a top of the lungs scream, as heard through a window, as transmitted through a cell phone, as recorded bythe 911 system. Its useless as evidence. BTW - this notion that there is no existing recording of Martin’s voice, to compare with...none of his friends had any voice mails from him saved on their phone? Martin’s own voice mail greeting did not have his voice? Very unlikely.

2. The notion that Zimmerman ‘pursued’ Martin, even after being told to stop. I assume this is the ‘depraved mind’ inspired act, which constitutes Murder 2. My response - in the 911 call, you can hear Zimmerman’s breathing calm down, as he has clearly stopped jogging, and is walking. The operator asks him his home address...and Zimmerman won’t give it, because he says he dos not know where Martin is (and is afraid he might overhear the address). At this poitn, any problems resulting from the ‘pursuit’ are over. Contact has been lost...and Martin has had more than enough time to walk home. But another confrontation occurs. We have no idea who started it...but we do know that the ‘pursuit’ was not the ‘cause’ of this confrontation. So, we are left with a guy with a bloody head, saying he acted in self defense. The state has to prove otherwise...and they can’t.

3. They have soem testimony from a teenage 911 caller, who changed her original story...but admits to not actually seeing the confrontation. Useless as evidence.

So, I’m at a loss as to what the ‘evidence’ is.


13 posted on 04/20/2012 9:32:10 AM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: Vendome

With that statement, right there, the case should be dismissed with prejudice to remove any further legal attachments in the future.


14 posted on 04/20/2012 9:33:34 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: lacrew

Good post.

And, as I posted above, even if...not saying it happened...even if he tried to locate Martin after the kid ran, as he reported, he was CLEARLY not trying to locate him in order to harm him.

The whole thing, the actions, the call to the police non emergency number, the conversation, was about Zimmerman trying to help the police get to the location, as he thought the subject was possibly casing the backs of homes and he was a watchman for the neighborhood where break-ins had been occurring.


15 posted on 04/20/2012 9:41:09 AM PDT by txrangerette ("HOLD TO THE TRUTH...SPEAK WITHOUT FEAR" - Glenn Beck 3)
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To: maggief

i listened on the way to work this morning the actual bond hearing in progress...this investigator was squirming while being questioned....o’mara brought up some very good points from the probable case that was filed.....


16 posted on 04/20/2012 9:45:56 AM PDT by tatsinfla
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To: lacrew
Martin’s mother says its his voice yelling for help.

Regarding the screams, O'Mara asked the investigator if any independent forensics had been performed, and investigator mentioned some forensic analysis described in the local newspaper.

Apalling.

17 posted on 04/20/2012 9:50:06 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: SE Mom

it was a thing of beauty....i loved it...listened on the way to work myself.....


18 posted on 04/20/2012 9:51:27 AM PDT by tatsinfla
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To: lacrew
They have soem testimony from a teenage 911 caller, who changed her original story...but admits to not actually seeing the confrontation. Useless as evidence.

And admitted this person wasn't interviewed until 5 WEEKS after the incident.

19 posted on 04/20/2012 9:52:12 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: MindBender26

The damage has been done, even if Zimmerman walks. Some negro will murder him on the streets, thanks to the New Black Racists.


20 posted on 04/20/2012 9:53:17 AM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: SE Mom

Just wish O’Mara had objected when the prosecutor continually used the phrase “when you committed this crime” in his questioning of Zimmerman.


21 posted on 04/20/2012 9:55:47 AM PDT by Churchillspirit
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To: MindBender26

I think that photo was taken 3 minutes after the shot ws fired. NOT 3 minutes after the police arrived.
The person with the camera took a number of picx and was probably still here when the cops did arrive.

Thank God for this person & their cell phone.


22 posted on 04/20/2012 10:02:38 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: Terry Mross

What pisses me off are all the cowards who are kicking this down the road to the next guy. Starting with the governor appointing a special prosecutor so he can say he did his job. The special prosecutor filing charges so she can say she did her job. The first judge volunteering information so she could drop the hot potatoe (I believe all this info was there when she was named judge). Now they’ll give it to this judge and make him make the decision. I predict his decision will be to hand the potatoe to a jury.

None of these people are concerned about justice. Their only concern is not pissing off the blacks and causing a riot. Maybe it’s time the whites started acting like blacks but only to make sure justice is served.

**********

How about all those conservatives who jumped to the conclusion that Zimmerman was a redneck vigilante without hearing his side of the story?


23 posted on 04/20/2012 10:07:42 AM PDT by Socon-Econ (Socon-Econ)
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To: RIghtwardHo

“All the evidence is circumstantial. “

Did the witness reply, “The only evidence we have is circumstantial”?

Or was it that there was no evidence?

For example, suppose there had NOT been any powder burns on Martin’s clothing. That would strongly suggest the shot was taken at something other than contact range, and would be evidence about the start of the fight.

Or suppose they had conflicting witness statements, with someone saying they heard Zimmerman shouting racial slurs. That would be evidence that Zimmerman was acting as an aggressor.

But it seems they do not.


24 posted on 04/20/2012 10:11:18 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (A conservative can't please a liberal unless he jumps in front of a bus or off of a cliff)
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To: Vendome
AMF????

Adios Mother F------

25 posted on 04/20/2012 10:20:57 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell)
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To: Churchillspirit
Just wish O’Mara had objected when the prosecutor continually used the phrase “when you committed this crime” in his questioning of Zimmerman.

Yeah..but O"Mara likely wanted to keep his objections to a minimum - after all this was a simple bond hearing.

26 posted on 04/20/2012 10:23:00 AM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: TexasRepublic
Some negro will murder him on the streets, thanks to the New Black Racists.

Even worse; some innocent man who LOOKS like Zimmerman will get whacked.

27 posted on 04/20/2012 10:23:26 AM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: RIghtwardHo
"All the evidence is circumstantial."

A case in which there are no witnesses and all the evidence is circumstantial might be a burglary where there might be things like fingerprints, blood from a suspect getting cut from a broken window, shoe tracks, or tire tracks.

The Martin case has a subject who was shot, witness statements, a shooter and a statement from the shooter, blood and injuries to both the subject who was shot and to the shooter, tape recordings of the dispatcher and Zimmerman prior to the shooting, and observations of the police and medical personal at the scene. If the case goes to a jury, there is a lot of "direct" evidence here.

28 posted on 04/20/2012 10:29:02 AM PDT by Respond Code Three (Support Free Republic lest we eventually get a Republic which is not free.)
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To: MindBender26

“Prosecutor Bernie De La Rionda then questioned Gilbreath.”

All those who predicted that Ms. Corey would stick this sure-loser case onto some hapless underling, take a bow.


29 posted on 04/20/2012 10:36:57 AM PDT by Chewbarkah
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To: MindBender26

sfl


30 posted on 04/20/2012 10:37:13 AM PDT by know-the-law
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To: Chewbarkah

They are just trying to spin up a riot. It makes for good TV


31 posted on 04/20/2012 10:44:37 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: Chewbarkah
interesting isn't it......Corey really should be disbarred IMO.....Nifong did it and it finally caught up with him, and she should have known better...

yes..this is a sensitive case....she had to tread carefully...but maybe charge Z with something, and not be so gleeful about it on camera like an idiot...

32 posted on 04/20/2012 10:55:44 AM PDT by cherry
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To: PapaBear3625

Like

Stealing for my own.

thnx


33 posted on 04/20/2012 11:10:29 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: MindBender26
Here are the two losers, but since angela is the boss, gilbreath gets thrown into the lion pit.

He career is finito.


34 posted on 04/20/2012 11:20:54 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorists savages.)
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To: MindBender26

ping


35 posted on 04/20/2012 11:23:16 AM PDT by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...)
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To: Respond Code Three

Direct evidence for some elements of the alleged crime, but no direct evidence of who escalated the conflict into the range of lethal threat, which goes to both the depraved mind element and the self-defense argument. The jury will be instructed that they cannot convict on murder 2 without each required element being proven beyond reasonable doubt, and I don’t think the state has what it needs to get there, whether directly, circumstantially, or otherwise, based on Gilbraith’s admission.

However, a hole in the evidence of this kind actually serves the race baiters well. GZ will probably walk, but the troublemakers will, due to the lack of direct evidence on escalation, be able to project their racial stereotyping onto that blank screen. Those who would use this kind of event for political gain could care less about the fate of one or two individuals and their families. They only care about how they can leverage this into advancing their legislative and social agendas. They probably troll for cases like this on purpose; the greater the perceived injustice the better. Other, similar cases would be uninteresting to them if direct evidence precluded their ability to invoke the spirit of racial hatred from the haze of ambiguity.


36 posted on 04/20/2012 11:31:20 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: MindBender26

It will be impossible for the defense to disprove the eye withness testimony and the physical evidence of the bloddy nose and head wounds.


37 posted on 04/20/2012 12:43:46 PM PDT by Young Werther
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To: longtermmemmory

This opens the state up to a malicious prosecution suit.


Looks like Zimmerman’s attorney O’Mara is one tough defense attorney. After dismissal of the case they should pursue lawsuits against the special prosecutor’s office as well as against several of those CBC members that publicly stated that Zimmerman hunted down and killed Martin because he was black (as well as that bug-eyed NY Knicks fan that pretends to be a filmmaker).


38 posted on 04/20/2012 1:14:36 PM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (TeaNami)
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To: Springfield Reformer
"but no direct evidence of who escalated the conflict into the range of lethal threat, which goes to both the depraved mind element and the self-defense argument."

There are some things are critical to the case. A prosecutor must be able to establish the elements of the crime so a jury can convict beyond a reasonable doubt. And thus far, I have not read anything that convinces me that there is any hope of a conviction. Who escalated the conflict is a matter of utmost gravity. In a just society, Zimmerman would have not been arrested and he would not have been in a position to necessitate him posting bail.

39 posted on 04/20/2012 1:45:12 PM PDT by Respond Code Three (Support Free Republic lest we eventually get a Republic which is not free.)
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To: Young Werther
"It will be impossible for the defense to disprove the eye witness testimony and the physical evidence of the bloody nose and head wounds."

I know what you meant, but to the defense's case, these things are vital. What you probably meant is this:

It will be impossible for the defense prosecution to disprove the eye witness testimony and the physical evidence of the bloody nose and head wounds.

40 posted on 04/20/2012 1:51:07 PM PDT by Respond Code Three (Support Free Republic lest we eventually get a Republic which is not free.)
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To: Hotlanta Mike
>>Looks like Zimmerman’s attorney O’Mara is one tough defense attorney.<<

You can say that again. He basically ambushed Dale Gilbreath, one of the investigators who signed the probably cause affidavit. Gilbreath didn't even know he was going to be testifying. It was stupid on his part to even be there.

41 posted on 04/20/2012 1:54:54 PM PDT by Aunt Polgara
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To: Hotlanta Mike

I hope they do.

Not only that but the race baiters and the bpp for their bounty.

Imagine zimmerman owning their logo and trademark!

also a dismissal provides immunity from civil suit.


42 posted on 04/20/2012 2:21:56 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Respond Code Three

Actually, circumstantial means anything not eyewitness. No one saw the actual shooting (unless I missed that which is entirely possible). But, there is a lot of evidence to be sure. There were audio witnesses and witness after the fact, but no eyewitness of the shooting.

In fact, about 90% of all cases rely solely on circumstantial evidence.


43 posted on 04/20/2012 5:26:52 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: lacrew

Actually, circumstantial is not a bad thing. My fault for not clarifying what I meant by “circumstantial”. As I posted elsewhere, circumstantial is all evidence that is not an eyewitness to the shooting itself.

Sadly, television makes “circumstantial evidence” seem like some sort of lesser evidence. It is not and, in fact, is often much more reliable than eyewitness evidence.

My fault for not being more specific about what I mean.


44 posted on 04/20/2012 5:29:18 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: ridesthemiles

Who says this person doesn’t have a video or pictures of the actual confrontation.

If it’s John (as in John Doe) the description of the incident sounded like he had some experience giving details....Could be he’s LEO or military trained. Taking pictures to protect GZ position was quick thinking regardless.


45 posted on 04/21/2012 12:31:28 PM PDT by hoosiermama
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