Posted on 06/07/2012 4:50:49 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
WATERLOO, Iowa — Joe Carpenter has more questions than answers about what happened on June 8, 1967 — but no question about the valor of his shipmates.
Carpenter, a 1965 West High School graduate, was a crew member of the USS Liberty. The U.S. Navy ship was attacked by Israeli forces during the 1967 Six Day War, in which Israel defeated a host of Arab nations and captured the Sinai Peninsula, Gaza Strip, West Bank, Golan Heights and East Jerusalem.
Thirty-four of Carpenter's shipmates were killed and 174 wounded — two-thirds of the crew of 294. Carpenter himself was reported to have been severely wounded when he was mistaken for another "J. Carpenter" on the ship.
Friday is the 45th anniversary of the Liberty incident. Peace organizations are planning observances in Iowa City and Cedar Rapids. Carpenter wants no part of anyone's political agenda.
"Some of the guys on the ship got consumed with this," he said. "I didn't do that."
He believes his shipmates — particularly those who fought fires, kept the ship afloat and tended to the wounded — should be remembered for their heroism along with those wounded or killed.
Though the U.S. was officially neutral in the conflict, Israel and the U.S. traditionally had been considered friends. Initially Carpenter thought the attack was from an Arab nation.
"Myself, I thought it was probably Egypt," Carpenter said. But the attacking planes and torpedo boats were identified as Israeli.
It was ironic, given the pro-Israel sentiments of much of the Liberty's crew
"We could see the war on the coast. We could see the planes," Carpenter said. "We were cheering the Israelis ... and then they came out and shot at us."
Israel claimed the Liberty was mistaken for an Egyptian vessel. Others have suggested the attack was deliberate. U.S. official reports say the Liberty was flying an American flag.
Now, 45 years later, Carpenter thinks the truth may never be known despite numerous investigations by both sides.
He believes Congress should have held hearings, "but the principals who were involved are all dead," Carpenter said.
"I would have liked to have seen McNamara grilled," Carpenter said. Robert S. McNamara, U.S. defense secretary under Presidents Kennedy and Johnson, died in 2009.
Some have suggested U.S. officials downplayed the incident to preserve relations with Israeli -- and may even have been negligent in a military response to support the Liberty.
"It was a spy ship" for the U.S., Carpenter said, conducting surveillance on the war in international waters near Gaza and the Sinai. Carpenter was a communications technician, transmitting encrypted messages.
But the Liberty was alone and significantly outgunned.
"We had four .50 caliber machine guns," Carpenter said, going up against French-made Israeli Mirage fighter jets and torpedo boats.
"It was pretty chaotic, to be sure," said Carpenter. He may have missed death by moments. He and a friend had just left an area of the ship when it was struck by an Israeli torpedo that was responsible for most of the deaths on board.
Much of the crew's efforts were spent putting out fires and keeping the ship afloat. Carpenter recalled one sailor who got separated from the group Carpenter was with and was killed by the attacking planes.
Carpenter enlisted in the Navy at age 17 upon graduation from West and had planned to re-enlist .
"That was before June 8, 1967," said Carpenter. He is now close to retirement from Tyson Fresh Meats in Waterloo.
Forty-three sailors received medals for heroism in the incident. Ship commander William McGonagle received the Medal of Honor.
I'd hate to be accused of being an anti-semite, because it would make me feel bad and stuff, but I sort of back the United States over Israel, and don't think it was very nice for our ally to napalm our sailors and fire on lifeboats in an unprovoked and deliberate act.
Even the Israel-Firsters are dropping that "tragic accident" bullsh*t because nobody believes it. The new meme is that the Liberty was spying on them and they got what they deserved. At least it's more honest.
Personally, I think we should have immediately shot every one of those jets out of the sky.
I believe the Israelis. The ship was in the middle of a war zone and closely resembled an Egyptian ship. It may have been flying an American flag, but that didn’t necessarily prove that it was American. False flags were frequently used in naval warfare during the two world wars and other conflicts.
Nobody sane wants to see a second holocaust inflicted on the Jewish people in that part of the world. But in the long run, lies do not serve anybody, neither America or Israel.
I don't have any idea what the truth is, but that theory has been out there for years. Google it.
It is no secret that the US and Israel spy on one another and the US has even arrested and jailed some Israeli spies, Pollard for example. So, they dont’ like the US telling their secrets, so they attacked the spy ship. How hard is that to figure out?
Ask USS Liberty Veterans Association for the evidence. The Association is made up of survivors of the attack. Their official position is that the attack was deliberate. The attack was carried out over a two hour period by aircraft and torpedo boats. Does that sound like an accident, especially when one sees men waving and yelling from the deck, the US flag flying high and the appropriate markings identifying the ship on its stern. A reconnaissance of the ship was made one hour before the attack was made. The aircraft was identified as Israeli by the men on the USS Liberty. No cause for concern as many of the men waved at the plane as warriors do when in the presence of an ally.
Lots of books on the subject are available written by people who are pro and people who are con. It is a mystery as to why the attack occurred in the first place. Decades of discussion among people who work in the field has not solved the mystery. We will not solve it today in this forum. But, IMHO, one needs to look closely at the Golan Heights for the answer.
To be considered in view of the fact that America’s foreign policy Establishment has always hated Israel and been predominantly northeastern liberal WASP Jew-haters.
Pretending the USA was a ‘strong ally’ of Israel in 1967 is just humorous.
We must have been doing something for the benefit of Israel in 1967 for Nasser and Syria to have no relations with us and to demonize us in their press.
As I said, the theory that the US was giving info to the Muslims is not a valid theory and is rejected by all serious works. Which Muslims would we be giving the info to - Egypt or Syria? How was this info being passed since we had little or not connections with any Muslim state at the time. I think the theory you are referring to is the one that we were handing over info to the Russians with whom the Egyptians and the Syrians were client states. I seem to recall reading a book that proposed this as the reason. We feared that the Israelis would go too deep into Egypt or Syria and the Russians would be forced to become involved. That seems like a possibility but the logistics of getting info directly to one of those two warring Muslim states would be insurmountable given the situation at the time.
Googling brings up more problems than it solves as one finds virtually anything one wants to believe with what appears to be evidence. Most of the stuff I know came about long before the internet existed. I Google but I always have a huge grain of salt next to my computer.
There were 37 American sailors killed for reasons that have not been satisfactorily explained.
I see no reason to forget that, regardless of who's feelings are hurt.
Pollard. Now there is a name from my past. I had the unfortunate experience of having to work for the Admiral who demanded that Pollard get his security clearance back when the Admiral was in charge of NIS. Pollard clearance had been revoked for cause but the Admiral demanded it be reinstated over the advice of his council.
Merchants of Treason, page 298, as I recall mentions the Admiral’s name as one of the reasons Pollard was able to steal all the stuff he did. The Admiral (I have a few pictures with him giving me an award) was easily the worst officer for whom I have ever had the displeasure of working.
Spying goes on but there are rules of engagement and running a humint operation against an ally within the borders of that allied country is heavily frowned upon. Pollard was a scumbag who was spying strictly for money.
Just some memories of my time at DIA I thought I would share.
I totally agree with your comments. I spent a year at FSI studying Hebrew (Special Arabic) with a bunch of die-hard Israelis. I have also spent some time in Israel. The Israelis are not my favorite people in the world but they are a heck of a lot better than the Palestinian Muslims I met.
Some of the greatest and kindest people I have ever met in my world journeys have been the Palestinian Christians in Jerusalem. To this day, they (as a group) are on the top of my list as wonderful human beings. They are hated by the Muslims and despised by the Israelis. They are, however, loved by me.
And I completely reject the anti-semite charge.
That is a load of horse crap pal.
Repeated radio calls to the Israelis were ignored as the attack lasted a very long time.
Seymour Hersch wrote a very interesting book. Was it factual? I’ll never know. When the attack ended a U.S. military officer came aboard and read them the riot act. I woula shot him right there. Probably no guns on the boat. Hard to believe the survivors would have kept their mouths shut after what they had been through.
well.. in their defense, flying an american flag doesn’t prove anything. flying false colors is more common than one might think..
“1). A mistake as the Israelis tried to say.
2). The Israelis were doing some human rights violations after their victory in the Sinai and the USS Liberty was sitting off the coast of Sinai and would pick up on these atrocities.
3). The Israelis were fearful that their plans to take over the Golan Heights would be found out and thus stopped. The Golan Heights is a sweet piece of very fertile land and strategically important to Israel.
4) The USS Liberty was passing messages back to a secret site (most would guess Cyprus) and then being transferred to our very close allies - the Russians.”
5.) USS Liberty intercepts Israeli transmissions indicating Israeli first strike against Egyptian/Syrian air forces provoking ‘67 War... despite Israel government political rhetoric that Israel is a peace loving nation.
***A hell of a lot more to this story than we’ve been told.****
many years ago, I remember reading right here in FR that the US and Israel had settled the USS Liberty issue.
I still remember when it happened back in 1967.
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