Skip to comments.FR Exclsv: Italy's Oldest & 4th Largest Bank CUTS DEPOSITORS OFF - not a single News story.
Posted on 06/12/2012 3:04:26 AM PDT by AAABEST
I don't often put stories in "breaking." I post vanities even less often. Hardly anything surprises me any longer, but I find this absolutely astounding. If you follow the financial threads or the situation in Europe, you really need to read this. Actually anyone with a bank account needs to read this.
I'm going to ask the mods to leave this here, unless they really feel I'm all wet here. I don't, however, believe I am. Follow me here.
BNI (Bank Network Investments) is Italy's oldest and forth largest bank. In other words, it's a biggie.
Anyway, the bank went into receivership last November. as of late last week, without any notice whatsoever to depositors, eureka, BNI suspends all payments and withdrawals. In other words the very first European bank goes on holiday. Furious depositors are left with no way to access their money or pay their bills. They will be on "holiday" (nice term btw) until at least July.
This is quite alarming in its own right on many levels. It's not, however, what is astounding. What's astounding is that there is a total media blackout. NOT A SINGLE ENGLISH SPEAKING ONLINE PERIODICAL MENTIONS THIS. Not one. Nobody. This happened last week, and we're going into Tuesday.
Don't believe me? Here is a Google News search of the terms "BNI" and "Italy" (no quotes).
Nothing. Zero, zilch, nada. Goose egg. Really?
The story is not a hoax, it was confirmed right here on FR at this thread. An astute FReeper, (Kartographer) picked up on it and worked the translation.
It's also on the bank's own website.
The only English speaking source I've been able to find it is right here on Kartographer's barely noticed FR thread, after which I found bits and pieces on a regular (not news) Google search at some other third rate websites.
Here is a site that has several stories on the matter translated from Italian.
Again, this went down last week, today is Tuesday.
I'm not a tinfoil hat kinda guy, but this makes me want to buy a roll of Reynolds Wrap and get to work.
This seriously calls for the WTF Tree. WTF Tree says:
On Sunday, Barbara Simpson mentioned the Italian bank holiday on her KSFO radio show. Haven’t seen it printed anywhere, though.
Ping to those on the first thread and other interested parties.
Thank you...I did see the the other article here...
They didn’t print some of the shenanigans I heard here in 2008, either.
Wouldn’t want to start a stampede I imagine. Think I’ll start carrying that extra bag to work now.
Yeah got to keep my eyes and ears tuned to see if this kind of thing grows. Thanks again FR and JimRob.
Yes, people tend to s*** bricks (depositors and investors alike) when banks start sticking it to depositors.
Still though, I would think the very first major bank to go on holiday since the crisis began would get mentioned somewhere in the English on the English-speaking earth.
Keep your vehicle’s gas tank topped off and you’ll already be ahead of 3/4 of the population. I imagine gas stations will become very dangerous places once the SHTF.
Looking at my posts - I’m writing like a complete imbecile. I’m going to email my wife and tell her to keep a half tank of gas at all times - then go to sleep.
If the MSM didn’t report it, it didn’t happen strategy. What’s on The View?
It was on the Drudge Report on Sunday, June 10th; the original story (in Italian) dates to June 7th.
I think it only stayed up for about 12 hours or maybe less.
Here’s from the DR archive: http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/data/2012/06/10/20120610_212411.htm
It’s in the middle section, just above the photo of Lindsey Lohan. Not a big screaming headline, just a normal one.
I see you got ping’ed to this one already, but isn’t this an indicator?
"The announcement was posted and the bank gave customers 7 days to act before the Bank of Italy approved freeze went into effect"
This morning we have the Chinese news agency xinhuanet.com reporting Italy may be next to request EU bailout. We have some news from Australia about Monti's mounting Italian challenge , but not much else in the English speaking press.
I'm thinking I agree with you. The English speaking press understands that Italy is not "too big to fail", it's too big to save. If Italy defaults, then not even the combination of EU plus the US can save the EU system from collapse.
And that scares the crap out of them.
I agree that Italy is “too big to save”.
For me, the question is will a systemic banking failure trigger an EU-wide systemic banking failure (owing to European banks being generally quite under-capitalized) which in turn triggers a global systemic banking failure?
That’s the SHTF moment. And as the Circle Jerks once sang, “’We all gotta duck when the s**t hits the fan’”.
Oops. Make that a “systemic banking failure in Italy” triggering a systemic EU-wide banking failure, etc., etc.
Glass Steagal is the key to protect customer accounts. Unfortunately we have the illusion of Frank Dodd which does not address an MF Global type bankruptcy that allows the failing bank to last minute ransack customer accounts to pay off big powerful creditors before folding. Leaving the customers robbed and last in the line of creditors during a bankruptcy procedure. Even worst Pres Obama via exec order placed US taxpayers on the hook for any derivative losses incurred by Wall Street bankers in the future.
Wall Street Bankers are assuring the US public that they are financially strong to withstand the EU shock waves. What they don’t tell you is how much derivative exposure they have on the books that can incur heavy losses if their leveraged schemes go wrong like MF Global. Many of these derivative schemes are hidden and off the books until they implode. In these times trust no bank.
It isn’t just Obama; politicians worldwide seen to have come to the conclusion that their respective taxpayers are the penultimate “lender of last resort”.
This will not end well.
There is one thing that many on the left argue, and I do agree with them in principle on it, which is that the people themselves shouldn’t be left picking up the tab for business failures.
That’s the nature of the free-market economy, after all. If I run a business that goes bust, it’s hardly up to you, or the guy down the street, or my next-door to neighbor, or some part-time waitress in Tokyo for that matter, to compensate me for my losses. C’est la vie.
And numerous threads/discussions on the Belmont Club, while everybody else was giddy about WI Recall and Obama “Private Sector Is Doing Fine”.
“Easy...any news source who is the first to lead with this will be accused of spreading panic. In other words..the editors are askeered of getting taken to the cleaners..or worse.”
Correct. No different than when crimes occur in Baltimore or New Orleans (or just about anywhere else) - not a peep in the media if the racial makeup of perpetrators and the victims follow the usual trend.
One could only imagine what would happen to Harbor (or whatever they call it in Baltimore) or the French Quarter, if tourists only knew that they were visiting some of the most dangerous real estate on Earth...in cities where politicians seem to derive their strength by reading reports of violent crimes.
I forgot who it was who originally said it, but he (or she) called derivatives “financial weapons of mass destruction”.
From what I’ve read, the nominal value of derivatives floating around out in the electronic ether is in the trillions. Some numbers have it pegged as more than the actual global GDP value.
When the Wall Street bankers say anything, I take it with a grain of salt. A very big grain of salt. I certainly don’t trust any bank, no matter how seemingly well-managed and run it is: after all, no one really knows how much off-books exposure they may have to derivatives, and horribly enough, the banks themselves may not even have an idea of their overall exposure level.
Italy's (and the world's) oldest bank is Monte dei Paschi di Siena (~"cowpats of Siena").
Italy's 4th largest bank (by assets) would be UBI Banca or Banco Populare.
Not saying that things are rosy in Italy - just that this story has grown in the telling.
I would say yes. One reason I posted two threads on it one here:
and one here:
Estimates are 1500 trillion. Since derivatives are traded in secret no none really knows the total amount. If 1500 trillion is an accurate number, the ENTIRE WORLD GDP is 60 trillion. If it collapses, all the nations of the world would run out of paper and ink just printing money to cover the losses. One small derivative office in JPM London office caused 2 billion in losses (new numbers indicate it can go as high as 17 billion. JPM is one of five large US banks and they are all involve in London (where there is no limit on how much you want to leverage your money) and each bank have more then one small derivative investment team. Secrecy and not knowing what is happening behind the scenes is the most dangerous aspect of derivatives. Since these bankers know they are too big to fail, will not stop them from taking high risks with US bailout money.
on the news there?
What about FDIC insured accounts here in this country? Even if one of our major banks in the US went on "Holiday", wouldn't FDIC insurance eventually cover depositors?
This reminds me of the guy I saw in a video a few years ago that claimed he owned the same number of shares in a particular small publicly traded company as the company claimed to have released, yet the stock was still being traded on the Nasdaq.
It was a video about stock fraud and the possibility that a lot of stock shares being traded in the major markets are actually the equivalent of check kiting, and don’t actually exist. Very interesting, actually.
You nailed it! ;-)
What a world we live in when the corner three card Monte dealer is more honest than most of the Too Big to Fail banks and investment houses. And face it the Monte deal who scams a few hundred is a thousand times more likely to go to jail that the banksters that are stealing millions.
The game is so rigged now that the fraudsters don’t even know how its going to play out. We are head for some bad times, which is one of the reasons I’ve been sounding the alarm. Its time that you either prepare to stand on your own beholden to no one or accept that you will be a ‘serf’ dependent on others to provide your basic needs.
As for me I dont want to be beholden to anyone for providing what is needed for me and mine. I certainly dont want to have to kiss some gubberment third class bureaucratic to try and coax some help from them, I dont want some jack booted thug herding me in line and telling me where to stand, sit, eat or sleep. And last but not least I dont want to be shut up with a bunch of zombies and have to worry about not only trying to get basic necessities but having to fight to keep what I manage to get.
Some seem to think that prepping is foolish, so I ask you whats easier telling your children and loved ones why you prepared or explaining to them why you didnt?
But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5:8
But then someone has to stand on the bridge waiting for FEMA to bring them a bottle of water, an MRE and a warm blanket so as to provide the Network Anchors their background Money Shot. I wonder how that will workout for them?
I am not saying that things will turn Mad Max/Book of Eli, (With the possible exception of a brief time in a few of the larger big blue cities) but things could easily breakdown for 30 to 60 days during which basic supplies, goods and services stop, banking stops (No checks No Credit Cards, No Debit Cards so on...) now how many people do you think are ready for such?
And between those not ready and those who have always had the ‘gubberment’ hand them everything what do you think the reaction will be?
Their reaction I think can be summed up in one of my favorite quotes:
Quark: Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. Theyre a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You dont believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes. ‘Star Trek: Deep Space Nine’: The Siege of AR-558 (#7.8) (1998)
For those who are just starting or are old hands at prepping you may find my Preparedness Manual helpfull. You can download it at:
NOTE! THIS IS A FREE DOWNLOAD. I DO NOT MAKE ONE CENT OFF MY PREPAREDNESS MANUAL!
For those of you who havent started already its time to prepare almost past time maybe. You needed to be stocking up on food guns, ammo, basic household supplies like soap, papergoods, cleaning supplies, good sturdy clothes including extra socks, underwear and extra shoes and boots, a extra couple changes of oil and filters for your car, tools, things you buy everyday start buying two and put one up.
As the LDS say When the emergency is upon us the time for preparedness has past.
Or as the bible says: A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
NIV Proverbs 22:3
Lastly this for the doubters and the scoffers.
There is no greater disaster than to underestimate danger.
Underestimation can be fatal.
When that bank went into receivership (that’s how Europeans describe bankruptcy proceedings), it was only a matter of time before the bank is closed. I wonder why there there wasn’t an attempt to return money to depositors even at as little as 40% of the original value?
any news source who is the first to lead with this will be accused of spreading panic
BobL continued to further explain and nothing was found in the post (by BobL) where disagreement was warranted (imho). (imho) the dominoes began to be lined up over fifteen years ago in Europe. The first domino to start tilting was Greece, then Spain, and now Italy. People in Europe and the United States have lived (with government help) beyond their means. Governments eventually run out of bullets (or money) to combat failures on the scale of entire countries defaulting. Bailouts are useless (imho), for once the money is gone, from the bailout, the only solution is to print more money causing inflation and devaluation of the printed product (money). A complete and full reset is one solution, yet nobody wins except those who were fiscally extravagant. All parties (imho) are looking to create some winners in this situation. As all parties (or countries) are looking to make those decisions on what institutions win and prosper from the probable coming collapse, unrest is growing in the streets by the people who will be funding the winners. Am having trouble with countries deciding who wins and who loses (myself) while the people (worldwide) are being asked (and perhaps later told) to foot the bill. The world, and the nations of the world who prospered during the illusion and spent beyond what was prudent and wise are seeking someone to blame. When all is said and done, governments will hold someone else responsible besides those who created the problems by being in power within the government. The king or queen, throughout history, has never claimed credit for a disaster, except in rare instances, and should the king or queen claim credit for the disaster, what difference will it make; the disaster will not be lessened, and each of us are being primed to take responsibility for any and all failure. Where the first dominoes will fall are known. What happens next is anyones guess. History may teach us, but most all of mankind never learns.
” I wonder why there there wasnt an attempt to return money to depositors “
Simple - in the eyes of the Bankers and their tame Governments, depositors - especially small retail depositors - are merely sheep to be fleeced at need, or at will...
The fact that more than a few financial services knocked at the door: the idea is to measure the liquidity of the group of about 125 million euros, whereas the path of restructuring was not feasible because of the poor agreement between the partners . At this point, as is evident in Bluerating, the most sensible option seems to be that of a separate sale of the assets that make up the bank's assets.So they don't seem to be a trivially-small bank, and they were having visible problems since November 2011.
Among the names of the institutions involved, there would be Banco Popolare (shareholder), and MPS Fineco. Besides, there would have to manage the network of financial advisors which now has about 400 people. On this, the institutes would Fideuram and BPM. But could spuntarne third whereas before, unless of orders from above (see Bank of Italy) Matteo Colafrancesco sees very little interest in this as they know sources interviewed by Bluerating really familiar with the matter.
As to the topic, I think the general sentiment of it being "too big to save" rings true. It's amazing in the information age how much easier it is for stories to get flushed down the memory hole.
Keep it the good work.
I agree totally about preparation. It’s always good to be prepared.
My employer (here in the Czech Republic) pays me in cash, which is always nice. I also do freelancing work, and with that, my other employers offers me the option of being paid in a wide basket of currencies, whichever offers the best exchange rate to the Czech crown. With that, I usually take a portion of what I make monthly and buy gold ingots, which are conveniently available at forex stands, or even the post office.
As far as the stock market goes, I’d likely be better off investing in one of the ubiquitous casinos around here. Like you said, the three-card-Monte dealer is more honest than the majority of banks and investment houses.
Thanks for the link to the video; I’ll definitely check it out.
Searching "BANCA NETWORK INVESTIMENTI" in Italy in Google Maps turns up it having ten branches across Italy. So it's not trivial, but also not huge (as you note). What puzzled me in the first thread was how hard it seemed to find info about it. Doing a similar map search for "Banca Popolare" in Italy turns up a lot more offices, which is appropriate for a major bank.
“Even worst Pres Obama via exec order placed US taxpayers on the hook for any derivative losses incurred by Wall Street bankers in the future.”
Really? How did he do that?