Posted on 06/28/2012 10:07:31 AM PDT by pinochet
The late conservative sociologist and evangelical Christian, James Q. Wilson, made an interesting observation on the manner in which Blacks, Jews, and Evangelicals relate to one another. Here is his fascinating 2008 article: http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_evangelicals.html
Here is a summary of his article. White Evangelical Christians are the strongest supporters of Israel in America, and their support for Israel comes from their religious beliefs that Israel is a fulfillment of scripture. But most American Jews have never been great fans of evangelicals, despite great efforts on the part of evangelicals to reach out to Jews.
Jews are the one white ethnic group, that has the strongest record of supporting civil rights for blacks. Jews have a strong record of supporting affirmative action for blacks, despite the fact that affirmative action harms Jews. Despite this, ADL studies have shown that blacks have the highest levels of anti-semitism of any group, with the exception of Muslims. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have made anti-semitic remarks, but this has not harmed their careers. In fact, the anti-semitism of Sharpton and Jackson has made them national celebrities, and has led to them being celebrated as national figures.
Compare the treatment that Al Sharpton gets, hosting his own show on MSNBC, with the treatment that Pat Buchanan has received. Sharpton is much worse than Buchanan, with regard to anti-semitism. Sharpton helped incite the Crown Heights riots in 1991, which killed a Jewish Student called Yankel Rosenbaum. Then there is a long list of black anti-semites who are loved by blacks, such as Louis Farrakhan, Leonard Jeffries, Amiri Baraka, Andrew Young, Khalid Muhammad, Steve Cokely, Tony Martin, David Dinkins, Malcolm X, Cynthia McKinney, Alton Maddox, etc.
I’m not remotely pre-occupied with blacks.
Evangelical Chrisitans are fine people, I thank them for their support of Israel.
I do consider their constant attempts* to covert my family and me annoying, but I take it as sincere and so am as kind as one can be about something like that.
* As in, I was in a supermarket yesterday and was cornered and handed bible versus by some old lady. Worst was on a plane crossing the Atlantic ocean.
Jews in America are of the far left, great in power and influence, but small in raw numbers, blacks are their voting and street muscle, blacks vote for their political agendas but resent them and their hold over them, nonetheless.
Evangelicals are of the right and are the most powerful force of conservatism in America and Western Civilization.
Evangelicals are all-important for Israel but the American Jewish left naturally hates them anyway because it is a right/left war in America, it is about our politics, our nation, not Israel to American Jews.
I think the sympathy factor regarding slavery is a factor. We see ourselves as emancipated slaves. A large part of the founding of our religion is based on that. That would be the main reason for supporting blacks.
As for a distaste for evangelicals... well, the evangelicals tend to try to convert our kids. That’s a big no-no. It’s spoken of as a great tragedy when a young Jewish person leaves the tribe. The whole Messianic Jew movement tends to make most C’s and O’s hiss. (Along with the Reform movement... but that’s a different subject.)
Evangelicals support Israel and Jews NOW, but (not too long ago) that wasn’t always the story. Christians have labeled us “Christ killers” for a long time. Many still do. It’s sometimes hard to differentiate between the Christians who truly want to support us and Israel, the ones who say that they support us in order to worm their way in and convert us, and the ones who want our nation wiped off the map.
We have a long memory.
The whole topic of conversion is a sensitive one in general. I don’t think that the average Christian can grasp how much we shy away from it and why.
I heard a Rabbi speak a few years ago and he said that Christian conversion was the greatest threat to the Jewish people since the holocaust.
I'll say - I thought the "Jews killed Christ" meme went out with the Inquisition. Most Christians I know wouldd regard it as a medieval notion.
Most Jews are liberals who think that evangelicals are all ignorant. In part this hinges on the issue of evolution. Jews think that “inherit the Wind” is historically accurate. Won’t get into the famous confrontation between Darrow and Bryan; however, with regard to the cause of John Scopes, I must say that Scopes is nothing like the one that Dick York played. My mother was a good friend of Mrs. Scopes. When I was in In high school she showed me a Christmas card we got from her. In short, Scopes was an unemployed geologist who was promised a lot if he became party to the suit. Because the case was lost, and Darrow fell out with his clients over appeal tactics, Scopes never got the windfall he expected and felt he had been double crossed. Ended up working in the oil field , He had expected to become a national celebrity. Played for a patsy.
So what has this to do with Jews in particular? Jews are urban folks and when they end up in “outback”places like Mississipi, they are outsiders, as much as any Jewish peddler in old Poland. They don’t get Christian fundamentalism any more than the average evangelical “get” the liberal Jewish point of view.
The historian Barbara Tuchman pointed out that modern zionism owes its impetus to English evangelicals and Jewish banks like the Rothschild The zionists themselves were socialists and so didn’t get much help from Orthodox Jews, who waited for the Messiah to restore Israel. The Jewish state, of course, was made possible by the Balfour Declaration, which promised the Zionists a Jewish homeland. Then, later, pro-Arab British administrators did what they could to prevent Jewish immigration, even after Hitler began his persecution of Jews.
I'm a Christian myself, but I think that kind of behavior of certain Christians is very annoying. It's narcissism disguised as caring and extremely ineffective. I don't know a single person in my church who converted to Christianity because someone quoted them the perfect verse in a supermarket or an airplane.
Not in your church, but witnessing is very important and is one of the differences between California and Texas, Texas Christians witness to strangers and it shows.
It is important to care for one’s fellow man.
“I’ll say - I thought the “Jews killed Christ” meme went out with the Inquisition.”
Nah. I got the “Christ killla!” yesterday in the subway as I got off and the doors closed.
Nah.
Intermarriage, however, is a problem, as it results in water-down Judaism followed by no Judaism.
“I think the sympathy factor regarding slavery is a factor. We see ourselves as emancipated slaves. A large part of the founding of our religion is based on that. That would be the main reason for supporting blacks.”
I think this is true.
“As for a distaste for evangelicals... well, the evangelicals tend to try to convert our kids. That’s a big no-no. It’s spoken of as a great tragedy when a young Jewish person leaves the tribe. The whole Messianic Jew movement tends to make most C’s and O’s hiss. (Along with the Reform movement... but that’s a different subject.)”
Again, I think that is annoying, but no big deal. They are sincere. HaShem values sincerity above almost everything else.
“Messianic Jew movement”
As long as they are gentiles pretending to be Jews, what’s the harm? In fact, I think that is how several large groups of sincere Jewish converts got started.
“Evangelicals support Israel and Jews NOW, but (not too long ago) that wasn’t always the story.”
This is a concern. I think of Martin Luther, who started off very philo-semitic, but when his attempts to convert Jewish people failed, he turned into probably the most dangerous anti-semite outside of Pharoah, Haman, and Hitler -— writing “Of Jews and Their Lies” which was literally the 10-point plan for the Shoa, down to the concentration camps.
You are confusing Evangelicals with Catholics, Evangelicals are the Israel supporting, pro-life, anti-homosexual agenda, right wingers of modern AMERICAN history and politics, Catholics are the democrat voting religion of the old days and dark European history.
It seems chilling for you to express such intense 80% liberal voting tribal feelings against Christians anyway, that makes it sound like you are surrounded by enemies in America, whereas as a political conservative you should prefer your fellow conservatives.
Luther was a notorious anti-semite. The German Christians who tried to reconcile Nazism with Christianity were Protestants. The country even after the annexation of Austria was two-thirds Protestant. Both Catholics and Protestants were complicit in the Holocaust, but enough of this Black Legend Stuff.
Luther was a notorious anti-semite. The German Christians who tried to reconcile Nazism with Christianity were Protestants. The country even after the annexation of Austria was two-thirds Protestant. Both Catholics and Protestants were complicit in the Holocaust, but enough of this Black Legend Stuff.
At least they would become conservatives and start voting Republican which of course would be good for them, and everyone in the nation, and even for the world, as a conservative you know that.
The Rabbi sounds like a leftist.
None of that has anything to do with America and Americans, that is some old European stuff, Americans never thought much of those people and all their brutality and rivalries and just overall weirdness.
Of course it does. Anti-Catholicism has been a continuing theme in American politics. During its heyday, the KKK was far more militant against Catholics and Jews than against blacks. That’s when Oregon tried to shut down Catholic schools in the state and force all children to attend public schools. And of course, you have never heard of the Blaine Amendment.
You should start a thread about Catholics. This one is about something else.
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