Did SCOTUS set up a new attack on ACA? Any tax must originate in House (vanity)

[TigerClaws]

Despite claims to the contrary, the SCOTUS has ruled the ACA imposes a "tax". With the SCOTUS ruling, this is ironclad.

What's also ironclad is that -per the Constitution- ALL taxation legislation MUST begin in the House. The ACA began in the Senate.

Since such a tax isn't really illegal until it's collected, the moment the IRS tries to do so someone will file against it.

quote: Article 1 Section 7 of the Constitution states "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives."

With that wording, the Mandate is definitely shot down but considering that it's just a part of the overall bill that introduced it, it's very conceivable that the whole bill will be struck down.

Thoughts?

[American Constitutionalist]

And 51 Senators to vote to convict Eric Holder of Contempt of Congress.
I say ? let the Democrats drag their feet on this until the next session of Congress starts by then ? hopefully after this election we will have 51 ? 52 Republican Senators.

[RobertClark]

I would suggest that the U.S. Supreme Court shouldn't be dealing with cases like this one brought by attorneys general in individual states. Asking the U.S. Supreme Court to hear a case filed by one or more states about Federal authority in any given matter is basically a concession by those states to the supreme authority of the Federal government.

Exactly. The Warren court expanded the authority of the judiciary and the federal government to such an extreme that it has become a run away beast. The states should never need to petition a court in opposition to any federal authority or statute, the 10th amendment merely gives each state the right to ignore that which it opposes.

The differences between the states gave Americans freedom; if I don't like it in CA, I can move to NV. With all states homogenized under an all powerful federal authority, freedoms are further restricted by the removal of choices.

Unfortunately, every conceivable rational argument against Obamacare and the ever expanding federal authority is muted by the apparatus that must be endured to get them heard. It is time for dramatic change - the government has become so distanced and out of touch with the population and today, by default, SCOTUS has rubber stamped unlimited federal authority (essentially rendering itself to be of no future use - the fed has the power, there is nothing further to render Constitutional opinions on.).

[savedbygrace]

Wrong. Reid took a House bill that had no chance of passing in the Senate, lopped off all of the actual text in that House-originated bill, added all of the ObamaCare text and passed it.

Thus, technically, the ObabaCare bill, at least the HR bill number, originated in the House.

It is a corrupt way to do it, but that, in a very small nutshell, is Harry Reid.

[montag813]

“The silver lining here procedurally is that, now that the mandate’s officially a “tax,” it falls squarely within the parameters of budgetary matters than can be dealt with in the Senate via reconciliation. That means the GOP will only need 51 votes to get rid of it, not 60.”

Does that include the 60 needed to usually bring a bill to the floor?

[American Constitutionalist]

Remember ? it was the Supreme Court that had to stop the runaway recount stealing of the election by the liberals and Al Gore in Florida back in 2000.... perhaps Roberts is keeping all his bases covered but yet at the same time leaving the door open for “ THE PEOPLE “ to take back their country.

[Principled]

Assume for the moment that the DHHS can continue to issue waivers, exemptions, etc. Then what is to stop any executive, at any level of government, from exercising the same discretion with regard to income taxes, property taxes, etc? Where does it stop?

It doesn't stop, which is why all federal tax laws must be passed by a legislative body representing a majority of the people. Sure, Congress has the power, but how are they going to wield it? Now that the cat's out of the bag, every exemption, every waiver, every rate increase, every kickback has to go through the House.

Since it's a tax, can't the R controlled house exempt everyone NOW?

[American Constitutionalist]

So he basically take's out of the Healthcare bill the very tool the Democrats use and abuse and say it's a tax and boots the ball back to the House's hand's and " THE PEOPLE " hands to do with it anyway they want with it and run with it.

NO MORE COMMENCE CLAUS hankypanky anymore.

Robert's Hail Mary quarterback pass to the wide receiver the house and " THE PEOPLE " .

[American Constitutionalist]

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES IN 2013 VOTE DOWN THIS NEW TAX ! WE CAN’T AFFORD IT WE ARE BROKE !!

[MissMagnolia]

I don’t know, just quoting what was at the link - earlier, Michelle Bachmann said we need 50+1, not 60 to repeal.

[kevao]

So he basically take's out of the Healthcare bill the very tool the Democrats use and abuse and say it's a tax and boots the ball back to the House's hand's and " THE PEOPLE " hands to do with it anyway they want with it and run with it.

All he's done is reward the Dem's dirty Machiavellian tactics that got this passed. It's still the law of the land for God's sake!

He should have "thrown it back" to the Congress by saying, "This law is stricken as an unconstitutional mandate as passed by Congress. If you want the law to stand as a tax, then pass it as a tax, which you didn't do the first time."

[Viking2002]

It all remains to be seen, once the thick veil of dust settles.......

"As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

--H.L. Mencken, The Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920

[onedoug]

You have your opinion. I have mine. Nice that all of the cowardly Supreme Court vetted Obama, huh?

Nice that they’re doing it now, huh?

Cowards all.

And our GD’d Congress isn’t going to do a damned thing about it either.

We are screwed!

Good-bye United States.

[IncPen]

Could you please limit posting of your viking graphic to once per thread?

Thanks.

[mlo]

"Obamacare was passed first in the House. The Senate then voted to adopt the House version through Reconciliation, thereby allowing the Democrats to avoid a filibuster and cram it through the Senate with only 51 votes."

Reconciliation was not used in the Senate. That was a repeated threat at the time, but it didn't happen. They got 60 votes.

The maneuvering was that after the Senate vote the House and Senate versions differed, which is normal. There would normally be a reconcilliation process and then a final vote in both houses on the common version. But after the Senate vote Scott Brown was elected and vowed to vote against it. So the Dems had to convince the House to accept the Senate version as-is, so it didn't have to go back to the Senate for a second vote.

[arthurus]

Actually this ruling effectively repealed that provision of the Constitution because the thing was ruled to be Constitutional just as Obama’s illegitimacy has repealed the natural born citizen clause. Even conservatives believe that that clause is no longer operational and are pushing Jindal and Rubio, neither ow whom is “natural born” as both have parents who were not citizens when the two were born.

[logic 37]

I was thinking about all of this last night as well.

Check this logic please:

1. If the Mandate is now a Tax that begs the question, “Are all Mandates taxes because they impose penalties for NOT abiding by the mandate?”

2. The ruling specifically said that the Fed Gov cannot impose a penalty on the States for NOT abiding by the Medicaid Extension...Because it is a TAX now and if I am not mistaken the Federal Government cannot directly TAX States.

3. In regards to waivers. A Federal Tax has to be implemented uniformly across ALL States, therefore all waivers that have been issued are now void because, as mentioned in many posts, a Federal Tax can not pick and choose when it comes to citizens???

4. Roberts and those who voted to “Uphold” the bill did the correct thing. The SC is not there to rule on Policy, only constitutionality. If they had struck it down in its entirety, it would have opened Pandora’s Box. So they ruled based on the fact that it is a TAX and therefore the Fed Gov has every right to TAX. Had Roberts voted the other way, this “MANDATE=TAX” ruling would never have come to light.

So the question is:

Did they just chop the B**ls off the Fed Gov by opening the door for All MANDATES to be considered TAXES, therefore, leading to a point in time where all MANDATES become TAXES and therefore, of not origionated in the House, are unconstitutional?

Think EPA, SEC, EDU, Energy, etc. All have there own Mandates.