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Madison, the Federalist, and Chief Justice Roberts
www.jerrypournelle.com ^ | June 29, 2012 | Jerry Pournelle

Posted on 06/30/2012 9:36:35 AM PDT by Bobalu

It is time, the Chief Justice said, for the will of the people to be expressed through the political departments. You should not try to make the Supreme Court the final arbitrator of such political matters. It has not the wisdom for that.

This election will now be held largely on the issue of Obama Care. If the President wins this will be seen as a vindication of that act and of the philosophy behind it. If the President fails of election the Act will be repealed, and there is an opportunity for the United States to turn back and forsake its former ways.

Now it is up to us. Mr. Roberts has said he cannot protect you from the consequences of your actions, and he has done so at a time and in a way that makes the question stark and clear. Whatever his intentions, this is what he has done, and I for one thank him for it.

(Excerpt) Read more at jerrypournelle.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism
KEYWORDS: johnroberts; obamacare; sourcetitlenoturl
:-/
1 posted on 06/30/2012 9:36:38 AM PDT by Bobalu
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To: Bobalu

Dr. Jerry’s rally call view right before this one, I think, is a must read as well.

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/


2 posted on 06/30/2012 9:39:54 AM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: Bobalu

Now, now didn’t you get the tweet? To take any negatives away from Hussein, it’s not called ObamaCare but Affordable Health Care which sounds so much more warm and fuzzy.


3 posted on 06/30/2012 9:40:01 AM PDT by bgill
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To: kingu

Pretty much everything Jerry writes is a must read! :-)


4 posted on 06/30/2012 9:48:53 AM PDT by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
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To: Bobalu

It is so extraordinarily naive to expect the federal government(scotus) to restrain the federal government.


5 posted on 06/30/2012 9:50:15 AM PDT by all the best (`~!)
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To: kingu; Bobalu; hoosiermama

My guess would be, this article comes as close to Roberts’ reasoning as anything I’ve read. But, it’s no longer time for retrospective analysis over what happened. It’s time to go forward and drive this abomination into the ash heap of history. It’s up to us. No one else can do it.


6 posted on 06/30/2012 9:51:46 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: bgill
...it’s not called ObamaCare but Affordable Health Care which sounds so much more warm and fuzzy.
Now it can truthfully be called Taxable Health Care!
7 posted on 06/30/2012 9:51:46 AM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Bobalu
"It is time, the Chief Justice said, for the will of the people to be expressed through the political departments. "

Dear Chief Injustice Roberts:

The people spoke regarding RobertsTaxation in the 2010 Congressional elections.

8 posted on 06/30/2012 9:55:57 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2
The people spoke regarding RobertsTaxation in the 2010 Congressional elections.

Then why is it still there? Why are we trillions more in debt? How many budgets has Congress passed during this time? Oh, right, I'm sorry, those were continuing resolutions and limited budget bills, not budgets. And the President's people believe that he doesn't really need Congress' permission to raise the debt ceiling...

Maybe Congress should do their job..someday.

9 posted on 06/30/2012 10:02:51 AM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: bcsco

Now here’s another article/commentary (and there’s been a slew of them) stating that the deviously super-shrewd Chief Justice ruled for Obamacare in order to make it look like a victory for the left when, in fact, he knew that it will turn out to be a gigantic victory for the right because:

1. On November 6th, the voters will rise up off of their couches, turn off the Jersey Shore episode on TV and, in their anger against the government takeover of health care, run to the polls and throw the bums (the Democrats) out and

2. Once the GOP controls the White House and the Congress, Obamacare will be rescinded and replaced. And all will be well.

I don’t know. If this is what actually happens, then I will take my hat off to the Chief Justice for being far smarter and far more prescient than I am. But if this does not happen, the nation is screwed.


10 posted on 06/30/2012 10:07:14 AM PDT by Signalman ( November, 2012-The End of an Error)
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To: Signalman

the only way it will turn out good is if the conservatives take complete control and repeal onerous laws AND pass a Constitutional amendment limiting taxation. Its time for the govt to get out of social engineering and raise revenue only for its stated purposes, not to modify behavior, no more tax credits deductions favoritism etc, take the power to tax from congress and give it back to the people. Its now or never. Fair Tax time or something similar.


11 posted on 06/30/2012 10:14:37 AM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Bobalu
Mr. Roberts has said he cannot protect you from the consequences of your actions,...

Mobocracy? I didn't vote for Barry, or Pelosi or Reid. That is why we used to be a Republic, to protect the liberty of the few from the unchecked will of the many. Thanks to Roberts and others of his ilk, it seems we have been unable to keep our Republic and now have the mob rule of democracy.

The French Revolution provides insight as to how that works in practice.

12 posted on 06/30/2012 10:18:19 AM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: kingu
"Then why is it still there?"

From the article:

"The purpose of the Constitution was openly stated more than once by the Framers to be the suppression of what is today known as plebiscitary democracy. "

Ruling it unconstitutional would have sent the issue straight back to the Congress and the electorate too.

It was all up to Roberts to try to make sure it was done correctly and he blew it. His decision didn't move the conclusion of debate forward in time at all. He just came down on the lib side. It is still a political decision on his part.

13 posted on 06/30/2012 10:18:37 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: bcsco
It’s time to go forward and drive this abomination into the ash heap of history.

The GOP landslide of 2010 is directly attributable to Obamacare.

Justice Roberts' ruling made Obamacare the central issue of the 2012 elections.

Any questions?

14 posted on 06/30/2012 10:18:45 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: Signalman

I’m not going to say he did it purposely, so that the public would rise up and do away with Obamacare. But I do think this could come as close to his reasoning on the court’s relationship in this as anything I’ve read.

I don’t buy into the blackmail crap. I don’t buy into the ‘give them a bone’ line of thinking, except as a secondary consequence. I suspect his having a split court allowed him to use this as a vehicle to express his views on the court not being an avenue for redress when congress doesn’t go according to the public’s wishes.

But as I said, it’s time we put all that speculation behind us. It does us no good, and takes time away from what we need to do; abolish this abomination. We need to stop looking back.


15 posted on 06/30/2012 10:21:20 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: Bobalu
Isn't it funny how Roberts didn't apply the same logic to Arizona's immigration law? Why shouldn't the people of Arizona, rather than the courts, decide whether that law is upheld, too?
16 posted on 06/30/2012 10:21:45 AM PDT by Kazan (Mitt Romney: The greater of two evils)
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To: kingu

We didn’t change the balance of Dems in the Senate and the Dim in the White House. They can’t repeal it if there are not enough in the Senate to vote for repeal and the President won’t sign it. (Unless there are enough votes to overide the veto.) Have to change that dynamic and it is up to us to do that in the ballot box.


17 posted on 06/30/2012 10:22:58 AM PDT by marsh2
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To: Signalman
Once the GOP controls the White House and the Congress, Obamacare will be rescinded and replaced. And all will be well.

Yeah, replaced by Romneycare...And, all will not be well.

18 posted on 06/30/2012 10:23:22 AM PDT by Kazan (Mitt Romney: The greater of two evils)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Justice Roberts' ruling made Obamacare the central issue of the 2012 elections. Any questions?

Yeah, I do. What makes you think the man that provided the blueprint for Obamacare is going to repeal it and replace it with something better?

19 posted on 06/30/2012 10:25:55 AM PDT by Kazan (Mitt Romney: The greater of two evils)
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To: Bobalu

Someone else is seeing the truth.

Roberts played the long game by putting this back in Obama’s lap, and making him and the legislature, and hopefully, we who will vote, the final arbiters of this matter.

Get out into your neighborhoods and register people to vote.


20 posted on 06/30/2012 10:27:10 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

No reason to get complacent. We have to act and act decisively. If we won’t, neither will Congress. Congress must learn it’s either repeal or revolution. There are no grey areas anymore. We want our country back.


21 posted on 06/30/2012 10:27:44 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: all the best

But roberts had the guts to do it with a backhand slap at Obama and Congress.


22 posted on 06/30/2012 10:28:53 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
"Roberts played the long game by putting this back in Obama’s lap, and making him and the legislature, and hopefully, we who will vote, the final arbiters of this matter."

Swatting 0bama/Roberts Care down would have had the same effect.

23 posted on 06/30/2012 10:33:25 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Kazan

Sounds like you should vote for Ubama, since you demand certainty.


24 posted on 06/30/2012 10:42:27 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: bcsco
No reason to get complacent.

Believe me, I am anything but complacent.

I still despise Rodney, and will not be giving him a cent.

And his sleazy "repeal and replace" slogan makes my leg tingle for the opportunity to kick him in the gonads, but he's the only play left at this moment in time.

The only "replacement" necessary is tort reform, and privatization.

If he gives us Rodneycare/Obamacare Lite, he is a one-term wonder.

25 posted on 06/30/2012 10:48:28 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: Paladin2

Did you read the part of Roberts’ opinion that called for smaller government?

Would being partison and voting against Obamacare accomplished that? I don’t think so.

Roberts also let state opt out.
Tied it to the commerce clause

Tied it to the dims and a tax.

That wouldn’t have happened if they had just voted against it.

Read the thread that compares Madison and Roberts.

There are also references in some articles to the Marshall Court and the Roberts Court. They both forced liberal presidents to toe the conservative line.......stay tuned.


26 posted on 06/30/2012 11:13:53 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Being partisan and supporting 0bama and the ‘rats didn’t put the issue back in 0bama’s lap. Swatting it down would have put it back on Zer0’s agenda. As it is now, The W0n can move on.


27 posted on 06/30/2012 11:17:43 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; hoosiermama

But that’s not enough. Sorry. I’m only responding to what you laid out.

We have to be proactive. We have to work in and out of Congress. I understand Judicial Watch may be initiating a lawsuit against the SC for their decision. Fine. Will it be effective? Who knows. But, fine. Someone here, or on some other thread, posted the timeline for judicial responses to SC rulings. That’s something that needs to be looked into quickly. I understood there is a 25 day filing deadline with fees involved.

We can’t let up on Congress. We have to teach them it’s repeal or the highway. And even should Romney get elected, repealing is one thing, what replaces it is another. And some form of Romney care will not do. It’s back to where we were, get the nation’s economy back on the right track, then take another look at healthcare down the line - with the focus being on improving what’s already there; not an overhaul.

Again, we have to be proactive. I’m pinging hoosiermama on this because she and I have had conversations about what to do...


28 posted on 06/30/2012 11:18:48 AM PDT by bcsco
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To: Bobalu

“This election will now be held largely on the issue of Obama Care. If the President wins this will be seen as a vindication of that act and of the philosophy behind it. If the President fails of election the Act will be repealed,”

Either way our Constitutional republic and with it our liberty is lost to the shifting despotism of democracy.

The very propose of the Constitution was to insure that Government remained limited in what it could do so that politicians either acting on behalf of the mob or their own vocation could not simply do whatever they wanted to us.

The founders knew thou-out history that this could only lead to the worse kind of despotism.


29 posted on 06/30/2012 11:19:12 AM PDT by Monorprise
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To: Salvation

“Did you read the part of Roberts’ opinion that called for smaller government?”

Anther moment of backstabbing hypocracicy eh?


“Would being partison and voting against Obamacare accomplished that? I don’t think so.”

There is nothing whatsoever “partison” about upholding the limits of the Federal Constitution. Even Kennedy did it. To call such a thing partisan is a sick dilution of partisan politics. LEFTIST partisan politics!


“Roberts also let state opt out.”

O thank you very much dictator John Roberts for drawing yet anther artificial line in the Text. Might I remind the dishonorable John that the Federal Constitution no more mentions the power of Washington to give our States money for Medicare than Obamacare? If he is to decide it is unconstitutional for Washington to alter its unconstitutional scheme perhaps he could do what the Original authors of that scheme failed to do and find its authorization in the Federal Constitution?


“Tied it to the commerce clause”

Before rendering the clause pointless.


“Tied it to the dims and a tax.”

The democrats and their voters could care even less about the “logic” of John than I do. The democrats like me care about the ends accomplished here not John’s means. Those ends are a boundless(constitutionless) Federal Government subject only to the shifting despotism of democracy.

Besides I thought Traitor John was being “non-partisan” *rolls eyes* at the hypocritical tyrant in Washington.


“That wouldn’t have happened if they had just voted against it.”

That wouldn’t have been necessary to even mention. As it is Robert’s dicta will not do one thing to enhance our position as the liberal injustice have never and will never respect any precedent unless they find it advantageous to advancing their ideology. Courting them serves no propose, and as Traitor John just demonstrated replacing them on the bench is equally useless.

It is the opinion of this traitor to our Constitutional law that we are condemned to the shifting despotic passions of democracy, and thus no longer a Constitutional(limited) republic of any meaningful form.

I’m sorry but as illustrated by the chief injustice there is no longer any reason to hope for our liberty under this “federal government”.

We can never hope to keep the mob’s shifting passions from trampling upon our liberty, without the protection of a Constitution. As much as you might like to the idea, winning every election is nether possible nor desirable. If it were we would have no elections and we would need no Constitutional republic.

Nor can we (as Traitor John demonstrated by HIS individual act) simply replace the ones that would permit such unbound(unconstitutional) power. The experience with John himself among many others exposes the fact that too many of them would rather stab us in the bag than give us the liberty Our constitution demands. We can win enough elections to appoint the majority of the Federal “injustices”(as we have) and still never have a real written Constitution of civil government under them, due to the high propensity of their corrupted treachery(like John Roberts).

Our one remaining hope for liberty involves the destruction of this “Federal Government” and rebuilding in its place or somewhere else(if secession be necessary) the foundation of liberty(a real Constitution).


“They both forced liberal presidents to toe the conservative line.......stay tuned.”

If Thomas Jefferson was a liberal than so am I, and Obama is not.


30 posted on 06/30/2012 12:15:04 PM PDT by Monorprise
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To: Bobalu

In addition to now being able to attend all those liberal cocktail parties, Benedict Roberts has earned back an invitation to Obama’s state of the union message in February unless, of course, if Obama is evicted in November


31 posted on 06/30/2012 12:34:55 PM PDT by kushnejz
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To: EBH

fyi


32 posted on 06/30/2012 12:43:31 PM PDT by hoosiermama ( Obama: " born in Kenya.".. he's lying now or then?)
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To: kingu

Congress’ approval ratings are even lower than Obama’s - -

because they won’t do the work they were hired to do in 2010!


33 posted on 06/30/2012 1:50:08 PM PDT by atc23 (The Confederacy was the single greatest conservative resistance to federal authority ever.)
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To: Salvation
Did you read the part of Roberts’ opinion that called for smaller government?

Now that's funny. Obamacare is going to become just like Roe v. Wade the Republican Party will say they're for overturning/repealing/restricting it but will do nothing when they have the opportunity. Don't you remember when the Republicans had both the Executive and Legislative? How many times was illegalizing abortion brought up??

34 posted on 06/30/2012 1:54:39 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Sounds like you should vote for Ubama, since you demand certainty.

I'm not going to vote for a socialist of either party.

If Romney get in and fails are you going to come to the realization electing Republicans like Romney and the Bushes is counterproductive to the conservative cause?

35 posted on 06/30/2012 2:29:55 PM PDT by Kazan (Mitt Romney: The greater of two evils)
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To: Kazan
If Romney get in and fails are you going to come to the realization electing Republicans like Romney and the Bushes is counterproductive to the conservative cause?

So, if you know how to snap your fingers and make things different, why don't you do it?

Otherwise it appears to me that you just like to play with your wee wee and pretend you're doing something.

36 posted on 06/30/2012 2:36:19 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: Bobalu

Jerry Pournelle is my favorite Science Fiction Writer. I don’t agree with him, but I respect his opinion. He thinks better of the electorate than they deserve. They will vote for “free stuff” until the country is destroyed.


37 posted on 06/30/2012 4:31:31 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Bobalu

The only thing standing between America and a Dictatorship is The Roberts Court. We have 3 branches of government. Obama has neutered Congress, and has been attacking the court since his first State of the Union. His intent is clear. Destroying 2 of the 3 branches leaves only the Executive.

The court maintains authority only so long as the country perceives it as legitimate. Roberts ruling gives the power to keep or strike Obamacare to the people while maintaining the integrity of the court, strengthening the 10th Amendment, limiting Federal Power, removing the teeth of the law, and, by accurately identifying it as a tax, providing clear procedures for repeal. Brilliant.

If America doesn’t want Obamacare we must get rid of Obama. What the Chief Justice gave us was the ability to use free will. There’s nothing more Constitutional than that.


38 posted on 06/30/2012 4:42:41 PM PDT by CelesteChristi
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
So, if you know how to snap your fingers and make things different, why don't you do it?

We make things different by voting for conservatives and conservatives only, preventing liberal Republicans from destroying conservatism from within the party.

It isn't that hard to figure out. Sadly, despite two failed Bush Presidencies, you haven't.

39 posted on 06/30/2012 6:49:02 PM PDT by Kazan (Mitt Romney: The greater of two evils)
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To: Kazan
So, what conservative should I vote for in November?
40 posted on 06/30/2012 6:51:25 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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