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Amtrak plans 37-minute train from New York to Philadelphia by 2040
Reuters ^ | Mon Jul 9, 2012 8:20pm EDT | Dave Warner

Posted on 07/10/2012 10:32:59 AM PDT by Olog-hai

Amtrak announced a $151 billion improvement plan on Monday that includes 37-minute trips from New York to Philadelphia at speeds approaching 220 miles per hour (354 km per hour).

However, the U.S. passenger railroad will need substantial financial support from both state and federal governments to make its ambitious plan to transform rail travel in the Northeast a reality.

The railroad predicted that super-fast train trips along the East Coast could be a reality by 2040. Travel times from New York to either Washington or Boston—both about 200 miles (350 km) in distance—would also be slashed, to 94 minutes, the report said.

Current travel times from New York to Philadelphia on Amtrak's sleek Acela trains are 1 hour, 15 minutes. Travel between New York and Washington currently takes 2 hours, 45 minutes and New York to Boston takes 3 hours, 41 minutes, according to Amtrak's website.

"The NEC (Northeast Corridor) region is America's economic powerhouse and is facing a severe crisis with an aging and congested multi-model transportation network that routinely operates at or near capacity in key segments," Amtrak's President Joe Boardman said in a statement.

The traditionally cash-starved railroad is funded by Congress, where Republicans have been reluctant to finance prior plans to develop high-speed rail in the United States. …

The newest Amtrak improvement plan also calls for direct links to airports and listed Newark, Philadelphia, Baltimore and White Plains, New York, as possible candidates for Amtrak service. Some are already served by local commuter rail lines, such as Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, which connects to the Philadelphia International Airport. …

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Government; Miscellaneous; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland; US: Massachusetts; US: New York; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: amtrak; baltimore; boston; districtofcolumbia; governmentpork; highspeedrail; maryland; massachusetts; masstransit; newark; newyork; northeastcorridor; pennsylvania; philadelphia; traintonowhere; whiteplains; williegreen
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Just two years ago, the same bogus plan was estimated to cost $117 billion. So it’s gone up from $260 million per mile (unheard of anywhere on the globe) to a whopping $336 million per mile (that’s assuming Washington to Boston), all for a duplicate of an existing railroad that is not doing badly as is (i.e. for minimal freight rail operations).

For comparison, back in the late 1960s when they were developing the Budd Metroliner cars, the promise back then was to have 160-mph operation on the extant railroad (former Pennsylvania Railroad). They regurgitated similar promises with the Acela Express, albeit with a slower top speed (“up to” 150 mph, to use their stilted ambiguous language). Amazing how they made a lie extend over four decades (almost five) . . . and they weren't spending colossal amounts for upgrading the railroad back then either ($335 million in 2012 dollars for the 225-mile stretch between New York and Washington DC, and now they want multiple billions).

Oh yeah: White Plains?!? Why don’t they just rebuild the old NY Central all the way to Chatham NY and run Amtrak there en route to Albany while they’re at it? (Oh sorry; another rail-trail conversion north of Wassaic.)
1 posted on 07/10/2012 10:33:08 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Make New York and Pennsylvania PAY FOR THE G*DD***ED THING!!!!


2 posted on 07/10/2012 10:42:20 AM PDT by Huebolt (It's not over until there is not ONE DEMOCRAT HOLDING OFFICE ANYWHERE. Not even a dog catcher!)
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To: Olog-hai
The newest Amtrak improvement plan also calls for direct links to airports ...

If you're going to an airport, why not fly ... at 600 mph?

3 posted on 07/10/2012 10:44:05 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Huebolt

Pay for what? My point was that the planned new railroad ain’t necessary. Nobody should have to pay $336 million per mile for any railroad at all, even a subway line.


4 posted on 07/10/2012 10:45:13 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Huebolt
Amtrak plans 37-minute train from New York to Philadelphia by 2040

The headline is misleading (it IS Reuters, after all!). 2040 is when Amtrak's version of a high-speed train is supposed to arrive in Philly!!

The train left NYC yesterday!

5 posted on 07/10/2012 10:45:56 AM PDT by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for white collar criminals!!)
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To: Olog-hai

If American travelers absolutely want, need, and are willing to pay for and support “high speed rail” on the “north east corridor” from Washington, D.C. to Boston (if it is economically legitimate) then it can best be achieved by selling Amtrak in an IPO, supporting it in government when it comes to trying to develop “rights of way” and letting private capital investment, technology and the “inter-modal” transportation market place decide how it will all work out.

In other words, get all the politics off the table and let the private sector try to work it out.

That is the only kind of “high speed rail” development that Conservatives should be supporting.


6 posted on 07/10/2012 10:46:29 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: Olog-hai
Hmmm Let's see if anyone else is planning on doing something stupid like this.....

"PAGING CALIFORNIA, PAGING CALIFORNIA. PLEASE PICK UP THE WHITE PAGING PHONE!"

7 posted on 07/10/2012 10:46:53 AM PDT by China Clipper ( Animals? Sure I like animals. See? There they are, right next to the potatoes!)
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To: Olog-hai

Not to worry. Doubt if we even have a country left by 2040.


8 posted on 07/10/2012 10:47:10 AM PDT by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: DuncanWaring

They already have stops at EWR and BWI. That’s more than enough airports, really. The EWR station contributes to making average speeds slower (especially that of NJ Transit) and doesn’t pull in all that much revenue.


9 posted on 07/10/2012 10:48:23 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Wuli

Maybe they should have left the railroad in question in the hands of the Pennsylvania Railroad and New Haven Railroad companies, and removed the tangle of taxation and ICC regulation that they were strangling them with?


10 posted on 07/10/2012 10:51:12 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

I’m confused by this articles assumption that Amtrak will be around in 2040.


11 posted on 07/10/2012 10:51:17 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Future generations will curse what we've done to them.)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

Of course it will be, unless the DNC disappears. It’s one of the DNC’s favorite political footballs after all, even though they didn’t make it law (Nixon did).


12 posted on 07/10/2012 10:53:10 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: China Clipper

At least NYC to Philly makes more sense than Bakersfield to Madera lol...


13 posted on 07/10/2012 10:54:35 AM PDT by neodad (USS Vincennes (CG-49) Freedom's Fortress)
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To: Olog-hai
$336 million per mile
For that amount you could Design it, Build it and run the thing for the next 10 years.
Call in the Japs,French or Germans for a quote.
14 posted on 07/10/2012 10:55:23 AM PDT by moose07 (The truth will out, one day.)
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To: Olog-hai
It isn't about value, it isn't about efficiency, need or return-on-investment. It is precisely about Union Jobs, and all the stealing that is concomitant with it.

Politicians will get paid, Unions will get paid, Government will get paid; taxpayers will get raped.

Just what the hell is it for? So the typical welfare recipient can shuttle quickly between two states to apply for, administer and arrange for doubled-dipped welfare checks....

Don't think I'm joking; this has been done before - a lot!

15 posted on 07/10/2012 10:57:05 AM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Olog-hai

Just believe really, really, really, really hard that you will be in Philly from NYC and it will happen! They teach us that in school! You can do anything you believe you can!


16 posted on 07/10/2012 10:58:06 AM PDT by WKUHilltopper (And yet...we continue to tolerate this crap...)
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To: Olog-hai
Nobody should have to pay $336 million per mile for any railroad at all, even a subway line.

I only meant that a train service should be financed by the people who benefit from it.

A federally funded train is unfair to the other 98% who have to pay but don't ride. AMTRAK is a federal welfare program for the East coast.

17 posted on 07/10/2012 10:58:09 AM PDT by Huebolt (It's not over until there is not ONE DEMOCRAT HOLDING OFFICE ANYWHERE. Not even a dog catcher!)
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To: moose07

Probably longer than that. France builds LGVs for a lot less than $20 million per mile. But we don’t even need a duplicate railroad; if the costs were kept under control (yeah, imagine that), it ought to cost a minuscule fraction in order to get average speeds into the triple digit range like they were talking back in the 1960s. Of course, nothing “out of the box” in Europe will be permitted to run in the USA thanks to the Federal Railroad Administration’s regulations regarding crashworthiness and other things . . .


18 posted on 07/10/2012 10:58:40 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Gaffer
Well, consider that the present-day Acela fare one-way between New York and Washington costs between $136 and $145 one-way. Not exactly geared towards lower-class welfare recipients, but more likely a different breed of recipient of federal welfare. (The highest fare on the old Metroliner from 1969, in 2012 dollars, works out to $79.84 one way.) The Acela fare between New York and Philadelphia is actually higher than between New York and Washington (checking Amtrak.com, I got a whopping $156 one-way).
19 posted on 07/10/2012 11:06:58 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Cripes, if our gov’t wasn’t doing everything in its power to kill innovation and capitalism, by 2040 we ought to have the technology to BEAM someone from NY to Philadelphia in 37 milliseconds!


20 posted on 07/10/2012 11:08:29 AM PDT by bigbob
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To: Olog-hai

I defer to your knowledge of prices currently to/from wherever. I submit that when the debacle is instantiated, all that goes out the window for Obama’s people. Done before, will be done again.


21 posted on 07/10/2012 11:15:32 AM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Olog-hai

again?

this report / projection is recycled every time amtrack feels threatened by budget cuts.

Trains are pointless except for cargo.

Driverless cars are the future.


22 posted on 07/10/2012 11:16:06 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Grams A

If the politically correct stay in control and ignore the Elephant named “Islam’, it will be a high speed rail line between two smoking, radioactive holes in the ground.


23 posted on 07/10/2012 11:20:13 AM PDT by Never on my watch (I'd rather light a candle than curse the flatulence.)
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To: DustyMoment

if its Reuters its WRONG.


24 posted on 07/10/2012 11:20:19 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Never on my watch
If the politically correct stay in control and ignore the Elephant named “Islam’, it will be a high speed rail line between two smoking, radioactive holes in the ground.

In Philly's case, it would be an improvement.

(ducking for cover)

25 posted on 07/10/2012 11:21:45 AM PDT by dfwgator (FUJR (not you, Jim))
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To: Gaffer
if you imagine railroads require a lot of employees, I suppose part of this is about "union jobs", but at the moment railroad employment levels are nowhere their peak ~ which was 1917 when they employed 1.8 million people and operated 254,000 miles of track and right of way.

Today there are about 200,000 railroad employees ~ most of them employed in freight operations. Rail right of way is probably nearly 140,000 miles, but active mileage is cited as low as 45,000 miles ~ depending on who is doing the counting, there are great differences in the mileage estimate.

The expectations are for even less employment as the roads adopt labor saving mechanization, automation, computerization and robotics. The need for miles of track will continue to drop as improved work methods and analysis will combine with intermodal technology to eliminate the need to operate less than optimal right of way.

26 posted on 07/10/2012 11:22:37 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Olog-hai

British and French HSTs have amazing crashworthiness specs and record.
But alas i know you are right, on all counts.
:)

We shall breakout the Popcorn,eh?


27 posted on 07/10/2012 11:23:09 AM PDT by moose07 (The truth will out, one day.)
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To: muawiyah
if you imagine railroads require a lot of employees, I suppose part of this is about "union jobs", but at the moment railroad employment levels are nowhere their peak

Nice historical research but I'm not talking about 'employees'....think construction, BIG DIG, WTC Memorial.....UNION. YEARS OF IT. Trillions by the time they're done if you're talking $260 Million/mile.

28 posted on 07/10/2012 11:26:40 AM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Huebolt
Highspeed rail does nothing to eliminate the greatest detriment to rapid travel ~ local congestion.

Automation technology currently being developed for cars, trucks and buses will most likely reduce local congestion substantially.

Now, not to defend Amtrak, but the highest costs and lowest income from fares occur everywhere but the East Coast between Boston and Washington.

The subsidy is in "the West" as seen from Hyannis Port.

29 posted on 07/10/2012 11:27:38 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: WKUHilltopper

You left out the part about clicking your heels together.


30 posted on 07/10/2012 11:30:08 AM PDT by Erasmus (Zwischen des Teufels und des tiefen, blauen Meers)
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To: Olog-hai

So who paid for the roads for the RR’s competitors?


31 posted on 07/10/2012 11:30:20 AM PDT by ex-snook (without forgivness there is no Christianity)
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To: Gaffer
Construction has changed since your days on the shovel. Today it's a fascinating daisy chain of machines doing all sort of things with a dozen guys watching them go by.

There's little real employment to be had in building railroads ~ ballast gets hauled in and dumped by machines. It gets tamped by machines. Concrete is mixed by machines. Steel is laid down and manipulated by machines.

The big bucks are made by non union analysts and designers!

32 posted on 07/10/2012 11:30:20 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Yea....like I’m gonna believe that.


33 posted on 07/10/2012 11:32:10 AM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Olog-hai
Amtrak plans 37-minute train from New York to Philadelphia by 2040

Will the unionized conductors still have to be paid 2.5 hours for each trip?

34 posted on 07/10/2012 11:33:15 AM PDT by Cementjungle
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To: muawiyah

Machines, huh? Automated machines, I guess. Machines that don’t need concrete truck drivers, drivers for pilings, drivers for bed gravel, drivers for ties, steel for bridges, welders, fitters and all the digger crews/operators.

I’ve actually studied railroad maintenance and replacement. Sure the machines are as automated and as efficient as you can get - at least here in Georgia where the Unions don’t control the support infrastructure support. In the northeast, it will be much worse. You only need look to Boston’s Big Dig to see that. Automation is great, if you can remove the human, and by human I mean UNION component from it. There, you cannot.


35 posted on 07/10/2012 11:41:14 AM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Cementjungle

It’s how they’re gonna keep Pennsylvania a blue state.

The imported voters will be able to cast multiple ballots in Philly and be back to the Bronx before the Knicks game tips off.


36 posted on 07/10/2012 12:00:24 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Olog-hai

The current rail route won’t support those speeds so new land will have to be acquired/seized and/or the track will be elevated. Between the environmental, safety, aesthetic and other lawsuits, it will never happen.


37 posted on 07/10/2012 12:27:34 PM PDT by mikey_hates_everything
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To: Olog-hai

The problem with trains is that you either have to fork out for first class, or you are stuck in steerage with the most disgusting people! $200 for first class Acela, or $90 for steerage? I go with first class every time.


38 posted on 07/10/2012 12:36:32 PM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: Olog-hai
Amtrak plans 37-minute train from New York to Philadelphia by 2040

I can walk and be there long before 2040.

39 posted on 07/10/2012 1:00:23 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Congrats to Ted Kennedy! He's been sober for two years now!!)
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To: longtermmemmory

I shall never get in a “driverless” car.


40 posted on 07/10/2012 1:12:12 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Gaffer

The union problem ends at the Potomac River at this end.


41 posted on 07/10/2012 1:22:24 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: bigbob
I signed aboard this ship to practice medicine, not to have my atoms scattered back and forth across space by this gadget!

— Dr. McCoy, from Space Seed
Even if a matter teleportation device is ever invented, I think I would want to travel in some old-fashioned way, rather like Bones.
42 posted on 07/10/2012 2:07:41 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: muawiyah
Now, not to defend Amtrak, but the highest costs and lowest income from fares occur everywhere but the East Coast between Boston and Washington

The actual situation is that there IS BASICALLY NO SERVICE anywhere but the East coast.

To take a train anywhere else will cost a huge amount and take longer than any other form of transportation except maybe a bicycle.

It is a total rip unless one is an East coast commuter.

43 posted on 07/10/2012 3:10:02 PM PDT by Huebolt (It's not over until there is not ONE DEMOCRAT HOLDING OFFICE ANYWHERE. Not even a dog catcher!)
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To: Huebolt

Best bet for Amtrak is to shut it down while selling off the East Coast service pak to a private operator.


44 posted on 07/10/2012 3:23:34 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Today it's a fascinating daisy chain of machines doing all sort of things with a dozen guys watching them go by. There's little real employment to be had in building railroads

The dozen guys watching are enough "jobs-creation" justification for Democrats.

45 posted on 07/10/2012 4:04:50 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: BfloGuy
That is true ~ there are Democrats who'd sell a billion dollars in bonds to get one job for one of their friend's worthless brothers in law.

They've done that recently.

Notice, though, those jobs have no staying power. Everybody else ends up going bankrupt and gets put on the street!

46 posted on 07/10/2012 6:50:58 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

That may be so. I believe you. It just boggles the mind when, as somewhere in the article mentions that estimated costs are ~$260 million per mile.

And as you say, automation in track maintenance, repair and re-laying is highly automated and few people are needed, at least out on the tracks to do it. I’ve sat and watched them for years - amazing, replacing ties, rails and grinding and leveling in one pass of a couple-three ‘machine trains’. But, somebody has to ‘load the magazine’ so to speak.

I’d say a good portion of the $260 million will be going somewhere it doesn’t need to be.


47 posted on 07/11/2012 2:00:45 AM PDT by Gaffer (NOVEMBER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Gaffer

No doubt Ol’Jer Brown and his cronies have in mind men lifting pickaxes and others turning jack, but that’s not what’s going to happen ~ there will, of course, be lawyers ~ thousands of lawyers!


48 posted on 07/11/2012 5:24:25 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Olog-hai

And the Federal government, should not have, in that same era, used a massive new government program to establish a condition - the Interstate highway system - that made for government sponsored competition against the private railroads, in both freight hauling and commuter trains, and was a boon to bus companies and those who made buses, as well as the truck-hauling industry and those who made trucks. Private toll roads could have done the job, and maybe the pace at which they could have done that, the routes available, and the tolls might have left more room for the railroad industry to adjust, improve and still be efficient and economical for passengers. We’ll never know; the option was not taken.

At the same time, in the major freight transportation and largest commuter market of New York City, two sets of huge new tunnels for roadways (not rail) were built and operated by a new government agency, one crossing the Hudson river between Manhattan and New Jersey, and the other crossing the East River between Manhattan and Queens - actions which were part of the changes that helped put the New York metropolitan commuter train lines into bankruptcy; with ICC and Union shackles still in place, and motor vehicles given brand new government provided options.

It must be hit home all the time - whenever the government intervenes in the market place, it gives with one hand and takes away with the other.

Now, a half century later, the state governments of New York and New Jersey are looking at large new train tunnels - at taxpayer expense - to help the commuter train lines they are still operating (at multi-million$ deficits), because they want to help kill more of the automobile traffic that their earlier tunnel projects helped produce.

The cycle repeats.


49 posted on 07/11/2012 3:47:46 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: Olog-hai

The real question is whether it is worth it to travel from NYC to PHI in 30 FEWER minutes. The existing trip isn’t horrible (although there’s not too much demand for it). Do we really want to allot a quarter TRILLION dollars to making the trip a half hour shorter for a few thousand folk? Millions of folks with a 90 minute commute times each way in their cars might be feeling otherwise.


50 posted on 07/11/2012 4:02:50 PM PDT by Teacher317 ('Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss.)
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