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High-Speed Rail Is Definitely Green
East Bay Express ^ | 8/29/12 | Max Pringle

Posted on 08/29/2012 11:37:02 AM PDT by NormsRevenge

Opponents of high-speed rail contend that it's a boondoggle because of its $68 billion pricetag. But a recent UC Berkeley study provides evidence that a California bullet train might be a good investment, particularly when it comes to reducing greenhouse gases and fighting climate change.

The study, published recently in the journal Environmental Research Letters, was the result of two years of research by UC Berkeley civil and environmental engineering professor Arpad Horvath and Mikhail Chester, professor at Arizona State University's School of Sustainable Engineering and The Built Environment. The study analyzed the environmental sustainability of a high-speed rail network compared to flying and driving. The authors concluded that the high-speed rail system, when it's completed, will consume less energy and emit fewer greenhouse gases and less pollution than autos or planes, even after accounting for future improvements in auto and airplane fuel efficiency and cleaner, greener technology.

"We're not only looking at greenhouse gases, we're also considering things like the potential for smog formation as well as human health respiratory effects," Chester said in an interview. "What we've found is that high-speed rail would be a cleaner mode."

According to the nonpartisan Public Policy Institute of California, California's population will exceed 50 million people by 2040. ..

In 2008, voters approved $10 billion in bonds to pay for the start-up costs of high-speed rail. Since then, the proposed project has had numerous setbacks that have threatened to derail it. The price tag also has ballooned to at least $68 billion. Republican state Senator Doug LaMalfa, .. "Costs for high-speed rail will continue to rise even as public support plummets," LaMalfa said in a statement. "California doesn't have the money for this project."

(Excerpt) Read more at eastbayexpress.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: California
KEYWORDS: boondoggle; california; definitely; green; highspeedrail; hsr
Toot Toot Toot went the horn Clang Clang Clang went the bell

No one boarded the link going nowhere

but you didn't hear it here. (HSR in California? . it's enuf to make ya spew green.)

1 posted on 08/29/2012 11:37:04 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge

only if it’s made of Rearden Metal..........


2 posted on 08/29/2012 11:39:43 AM PDT by Red Badger (Anyone who thinks wisdom comes with age is either too young or too stupid to know the difference....)
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To: NormsRevenge

“...California bullet train might be a good investment, particularly when it comes to reducing greenhouse gases and fighting climate change.”

Sooooo, these writers have demonstrated that they are collossal jewels of monumental ignorance in both science and economics.

Must be liberals.


3 posted on 08/29/2012 11:42:31 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: NormsRevenge
good investment, particularly when it comes to reducing greenhouse gases and fighting climate change.

What utter nonsense. NOTHING is good investment that purports to change the weather. That is out of the realm of human control.

4 posted on 08/29/2012 11:43:38 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (My game is disruption. I will use lethal force --my vote-- in self-defense against Obama.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Well that settles it then. Build it. Build it everywhere. Damn the cost.


5 posted on 08/29/2012 11:43:42 AM PDT by bkepley
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To: Red Badger

Damn! Beat me to it.


6 posted on 08/29/2012 11:44:27 AM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Johnny Rico picked the wrong girl!)
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To: NormsRevenge
For $68 billion, they could buy 1,700,000 Chevy Volts and use those instead. Imagine pony express stations for state-owned Volts every 30-40 miles. Now THAT'S thinking green!

I got a million ideas just as good as that!

7 posted on 08/29/2012 11:44:42 AM PDT by VanShuyten ("a shadow...draped nobly in the folds of a gorgeous eloquence.")
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To: NormsRevenge
High-Speed Rail Is Definitely Green

Just ask Willie Green.

8 posted on 08/29/2012 11:45:02 AM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: NormsRevenge
High-Speed Rail Is Definitely Green

I prefer red white and blue.

9 posted on 08/29/2012 11:45:04 AM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: Lee'sGhost

I just watched Atlas Shrugged Part One last week.

I watched to see if they actually made Rearden Metal green.

They did...........


10 posted on 08/29/2012 11:46:29 AM PDT by Red Badger (Anyone who thinks wisdom comes with age is either too young or too stupid to know the difference....)
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To: Disambiguator
Just ask Willie Green.

I thought 'Choo Choo' Willie was banned!

11 posted on 08/29/2012 11:47:04 AM PDT by backwoods-engineer (My game is disruption. I will use lethal force --my vote-- in self-defense against Obama.)
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To: NormsRevenge

But, the industries that they skim from to support the railway’s deficits are greenhouse gas producing industries.


12 posted on 08/29/2012 11:47:50 AM PDT by Daveinyork
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To: NormsRevenge
Green technology is a good investment, and it results in tremendous wealth because changing the weather makes jobs magically rain down. You see, when a Democrat says it, it's very wise and sensible ...

But there is a thread nearby:

As Isaac Hits Gulf Coast, Obama Jokes That GOP Believes Jobs 'Will Magically Rain Down'

Republicans say the stupidest things -- especially when you put words in their mouths.

13 posted on 08/29/2012 11:48:40 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (I'm not voting for Romney. The Grand Old Whig Party doesn't own my vote and failed to earn it.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Given that any constructed item requires energy to create (e.g., from iron ore to polished steel), I would imagine that the $68 billion in construction accounts for huge amount of energy use, which I would imagine would overwhelm any modest decrease in greenhouse gases for a train versus car trip.


14 posted on 08/29/2012 11:49:40 AM PDT by Fractal Trader
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To: NormsRevenge

Maybe they could get like a million sasquatches and they could just carry everybody in California.


15 posted on 08/29/2012 11:52:56 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: NormsRevenge

Nobody ever gives me a lifecycle cost. I don’t give a damn if it runs emission free if the manufacture and installation is not also emission free. Tell me the whole story and then we can talk.


16 posted on 08/29/2012 11:55:36 AM PDT by jimfree (In Nov 2012 my 12 y/o granddaughter has more relevant&quality executive experience than Barack Obama)
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To: NormsRevenge

Maybe you know why a high-roller... ...like George Soros is interested in Rock Ridge.

Don't know. Got to do with where choo-choo go.

Mongo, why would George Soros care about where the choo-choo goes?

Don't know. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

17 posted on 08/29/2012 11:56:26 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: NormsRevenge
What are the unintended consequences of really fast trains. How many animals will they kill? What are energy problems? They have the potential to be as bad as windmills.
18 posted on 08/29/2012 11:56:58 AM PDT by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: NormsRevenge

19 posted on 08/29/2012 12:00:54 PM PDT by TheRightGuy (I want MY BAILOUT ... a billion or two should do!)
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To: Disambiguator

High-Speed Rail Is Definitely Willie Green


20 posted on 08/29/2012 12:05:14 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: NormsRevenge

21 posted on 08/29/2012 12:09:14 PM PDT by mc5cents
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To: NormsRevenge

well, dang, I would have expected a Professor from the Arizona State University’s School of Sustainable Engineering to come out in support of coal powered SUV’s. /sarc


22 posted on 08/29/2012 12:15:35 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: NormsRevenge
Who cares how green it is if no one is going to use it?!
23 posted on 08/29/2012 12:19:00 PM PDT by Tanniker Smith (Rome didn't fall in a day, either.)
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To: NormsRevenge
“two years of research by UC Berkeley civil and environmental engineering professor Arpad Horvath and Mikhail Chester, professor at Arizona State University's School of Sustainable Engineering and The Built Environment.”

Just another tainted study by academia to uphold their preconceived outcome. I wonder how much money (above the table and especially under the table)changed hands on this one.

24 posted on 08/29/2012 12:28:40 PM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again.")
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To: NormsRevenge

Green is the color of the mold growing on the tracks.


25 posted on 08/29/2012 12:41:58 PM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class!)
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To: NormsRevenge
High-Speed Rail Is Definitely GOING TO SPEND TAXPAYERS Green

Fixed it...

I'm a railfan, but HSR won't work in the US!!

I'd rather spend the HSR money and improve AMTRAK Service...CA Amtrak trains are good!!

26 posted on 08/29/2012 1:43:09 PM PDT by ExCTCitizen (Yes, Obama, I had help with my business. MY CUSTOMERS!)
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To: NormsRevenge
The choo-choo train is part of UN Agenda 21.

It's of no use right now, but once they clear the center of the country of human inhabitants and force them into high-rise containment facilities on both coasts it will connect all the containment facilities very efficiently.

Agenda 21 for Dummies

27 posted on 08/29/2012 1:51:12 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: All

It’s too bad that California didn’t accept the French offer to build HSR on their own dime but the Democrats who lobbied to make sure that HSR crosses their land opposed the idea as they each stand to make millions from the deal.

If government would simply stand aside private firms would build this thing, just as they wanted to do in Texas until Southwest Airlines lobbied to kill it.

That said, there are two arguments against HSR that make whoever use them look retarded and ignorant:

1. “Boondoggle”. Really? Is this the best you got? Then please STFU because you sound like my stodgy old grandfather who thought that everything he didn’t understand was a ‘boondoggle’. Seriously, LIBERALS phrase their arguments with pathetic names when they can’t come up with anything else, be better than that.

2. “The train to nowhere”. Unless you can come up with a way to build the entire system ALL AT ONCE then again, please STFU because you sound like an ignoramus and you make conservatives sound stupid by their association with you.

Unless conservatives can come up with cogent arguments against HSR then just let it go. Argue about the cost, argue that it should be privately built, argue that we can’t afford it, but at least make an intelligent argument, not just run around saying “BOONDOGGLE!!!” like a stupid wind-up-toy.

[/rant]


28 posted on 08/29/2012 1:55:53 PM PDT by MeganC (The Cinemark theatre in Aurora, CO is a 'Gun Free Zone'. Spread the word.)
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To: NormsRevenge

“But a recent UC Berkeley study provides evidence that...”

...studies that come from berkeley are worthless, politically biased nonsense.


29 posted on 08/29/2012 2:01:44 PM PDT by lowbridge (Joe Biden: "Look, the Taliban per se is not our enemy.")
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To: MeganC
Unless conservatives can come up with cogent arguments against HSR then just let it go.

My goodness. How about, 1)We are broke and can't afford it. 2) We don't need it. 3)The people of California don't want it. 4) contrary to your wishful thinking there are no "private firms" ready to cough up 70 or 100 billion to build a train no one cares to ride. If there is I'd sure like to hear about it--so I could short their stock.

30 posted on 08/29/2012 6:31:14 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: backwoods-engineer

If it were a good investment, somebody in the private sector would build it.


31 posted on 08/29/2012 11:34:55 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: hinckley buzzard

>>>contrary to your wishful thinking there are no “private firms” ready to cough up 70 or 100 billion to build a train no one cares to ride. If there is I’d sure like to hear about it—so I could short their stock.<<<

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-rail-advice-20120709,0,4539140.story

Anmd it looks like a private consortium is again trying to bulid the Texas HSR project despite the previous interference from Southwest Airlines.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/05/09/3949397/group-aims-to-raise-10-billion.html


32 posted on 08/30/2012 9:26:29 AM PDT by MeganC (The Cinemark theatre in Aurora, CO is a 'Gun Free Zone'. Spread the word.)
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To: Pining_4_TX

“If it were a good investment, somebody in the private sector would build it.”

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/05/09/3949397/group-aims-to-raise-10-billion.html


33 posted on 08/30/2012 9:29:28 AM PDT by MeganC (The Cinemark theatre in Aurora, CO is a 'Gun Free Zone'. Spread the word.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Just another government waste project whose true cost is unknown. Try $100 Billion Plus.


34 posted on 08/30/2012 9:31:28 AM PDT by Captain Peter Blood
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