Firearm instructor prepares to educate officers on open carry(OK)

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/bixby-police-officer-dontaye-carter/gBKKS5k72kipEppbDyQRDg.csp | 18 October, 2012 | Dontaye Carter

[marktwain]

In two weeks the open carry law takes effect.

Gun-training classes have been filling up and in some cases doubling their normal size.

One Bixby Police Officer says more education is needed, even for law enforcement.

"This is a shift in culture,” said Bixby Police Officer Michael Konshak. “Now we're going to have guns out in the open."

Konshak has been in law enforcement nearly 22 years. He's a firearm instructor certified by the Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training. Konshak is worried there hasn't been enough talk about this law.

"I don't have any fear,” he told FOX23. “I just am concerned that everybody gets educated that needs to be educated."

He will be teaching police officers across the state.

"When the open carry thing goes into effect, obviously the law enforcement officer will know the person is carrying out in the open. As a law enforcement personnel we can go up and ask them to prove their credentials, "show us your license to carry the gun," said Konshak.

But it gets tricky; Oklahoma law says law enforcement must honor the gun laws of Alaska, Wyoming, Vermont and Arizona. Those states don't issue gun licenses. Anyone from those states caught in Oklahoma must have a state I.D. or driver's license.

[marktwain]

A good incremental step toward Constitutional carry. Let us see how Oklahomans react to people from other states haveing a bit more freedom than they do.

The next logical step is to remove the requirement for a permit from Oklahoma.

[Hot Tabasco]

“Now we're going to have guns out in the open."

Michigan's had open carry for almost forever and I can't say that I've ever saw anyone exercise that right. I've seen guys with poorly concealed handguns but that was no big deal either.

[CPOSharky]

But it gets tricky; Oklahoma law says law enforcement must honor the gun laws of Alaska, Wyoming, Vermont and Arizona. Those states don't issue gun licenses.

I know for a fact that Arizona does issue a concealed carry license. Even though it is optional for concealed carry here, most other states recognize it.

[T-Bird45]

As an Oklahoman, I don’t have a huge problem with those from the no-permit/Constitutional-carry states being given recognition by the new OK law. It’s really no different that the way states recognize each other’s driver’s license. As the officer-instructor notes, this law transition shows a need for proper education for LEOs as the lack of it can be a source of problems (usually rooted in poor communication skills), especially as regards firearms. My interactions with LEOs when I’ve been armed have been positive in the normal roadside interactions (a total of two in the 15 years of having a CCL.)

[SJSAMPLE]

I work with a woman who spent considerable time and money getting her OK CCW permit.

The topic came up during some "Value Stream Mapping" training I was giving her facility in Edmond. A lot of gun owners in the group, so I suggested that we VSM the process she went through.

Three hours later, we were at 6 months and over $1200. I don't know if that is typical, but it was disturbing to see, laid out bare, the hassel that was constructed for her.

Somebody in the group made the wise observatiion; "That's not a licensing process, that's a discouragement process."

Maybe it's changing for the better.

[Abundy]

hmmm...unless there is a specific provision in the new law allowing law enforcement to accost/detain and ask for the permit I don't see how that issue won't be the first legal challenge...hell, even if the provision is there it should still be challenged

there's a serious 4th and 5th amendment issue here

is joe citizen free to ignore the officer's request? if not, then joe citizen has been detained without probable cause and ordered to self-incriminate (if they don't have a permit)

approaching simply because someone appears to be engaged in a lawful activity has turned policing on it's head

I also see the flip side of this...now every banger can just walk around strapped with impunity

and you can bet it will be the first banger that gets popped that will be the test case

ugh

[T-Bird45]

As a practitioner of VSM and consultant, I’m glad to see you were able to do this in a workgroup setting. I think the best learning occurs when people are able to connect it at an emotional level. I bet the insights from the group were most revealing, even for an experienced trainer/practitioner.

[ops33]

“...poorly concealed handguns...”

That was one of the motivations for passing this law. There were some overzealous police arresting concealed carry holders for accidentally showing their concealed weapon.