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SanFran Chronicle: If they want to secede, let 'em
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 11/13/2012 | Caille Millner

Posted on 11/14/2012 1:05:46 PM PST by TheWryFederalist

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Oh, how I wish it were so.

Seven states have exceeded the petition limits that call for an administration response. Others will join them shortly.

Of course no one believes the statists in the White House would ever say 'go ahead, see you later". It will take a cataclysmic event like a financial collapse to get the ball rolling and for legislatures of states that oppose Obama's socialistic fascism to declare their state's independence.

Bring it on.

1 posted on 11/14/2012 1:05:52 PM PST by TheWryFederalist
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To: TheWryFederalist
Cute, but who'll bail CA's ass out when it hits the fiscal wall, genius?

Idiot.

2 posted on 11/14/2012 1:08:58 PM PST by skeeter
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To: TheWryFederalist
Seven states have exceeded the petition limits that call for an administration response.

I didn't know there were rules for secession already laid out. If Emperor 0bammy gives his go ahead, then is s state then out?

3 posted on 11/14/2012 1:12:06 PM PST by The Sons of Liberty (Remember the Heroic SEALs of Benghazi and DEMAND a Full Accounting!!!!)
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To: TheWryFederalist

It’s an opening, a crack in the anti-secession cabal.


4 posted on 11/14/2012 1:12:56 PM PST by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: TheWryFederalist

Is the size of the succession movement a warning?


5 posted on 11/14/2012 1:15:15 PM PST by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: TheWryFederalist

Actually, being a former leftist, I can say that they very well might be happy to let those states go. Remember, those states are a huge impediment to their plans and if they’re not part of the US, the resistance to their agenda will be much reduced.

Imagine if the California contingent in the House didn’t have to contend with the similar-sized Texas contingent telling them “no” every time they want something.


6 posted on 11/14/2012 1:15:48 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: TheWryFederalist

How would we ever be able to secure that much border?


7 posted on 11/14/2012 1:16:15 PM PST by Proud2BeRight
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To: The Sons of Liberty

I don’t think that there is any legal provision for states to secede. There are constitutional processes to admit new states, but none that I am aware of to allow states to leave.

If a state declared its independence from Obama’s rule, what would happen? That is uncharted territory.


8 posted on 11/14/2012 1:16:33 PM PST by Dilbert San Diego ('s)
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To: skeeter

Reading the responses on SF Gate are hilarious. They think that CA would prosper if the union broke up? What complete tools. Do they think our govt would magically change? CA would continue their spending ways. Only difference would be that there would be no one to bail CA out when they finally go over the cliff.
I so want something to come out of this secession movement. Just to see CA sink into complete anarchy after they go over the cliff.


9 posted on 11/14/2012 1:17:26 PM PST by hillarys cankles
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To: TheWryFederalist

What kind of a name is Caille? (any guesses about the sexual orientation) Anyway, Caille, let me interpret all these petitions to you: they are a referendum on the legitimacy of the governing authority of the Obama Administration (hint = there is none). When you falsify elections, the people refuse to recognize your governing authority. Martial law is Obama’s only other option (but will the military support him? hmmmm....)


10 posted on 11/14/2012 1:17:41 PM PST by veritas2002
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To: TheWryFederalist

States did not post any petitions

people did

If you want to secede you will have to do a real petition, on paper, and submitted to the state governments.


11 posted on 11/14/2012 1:17:45 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: TheWryFederalist

They can reform into: The Real United States.


12 posted on 11/14/2012 1:17:45 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (There goes the dominoes...)
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To: TheWryFederalist

Let those states that wish to leave secede from the United States
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/228/644/059/let-those-states-that-wish-to-leave-seceed-from-the-united-states/


13 posted on 11/14/2012 1:18:10 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: TheWryFederalist
The red states are where the United States stores all of its nuclear weapons. Thus, conservative states will have a major advantage in its dealings with the Unionized States of Marxism: we'll make them give us all of their resources, and in exchange we may spare them from the cleansing power of the atom.
14 posted on 11/14/2012 1:18:20 PM PST by Objective Scrutator (All liberals are criminals, and all criminals are liberals)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
If a state declared its independence from Obama’s rule, what would happen? That is uncharted territory.

Without being too flippant, wasn't this decided in 1861-65, where the answer was that the side with the largest army got to make the succession rules?

15 posted on 11/14/2012 1:18:53 PM PST by JackOfVA
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To: TheWryFederalist

“but I’m counting those knuckleheads only once.”

Mean spirited remarks have never fed even one hungry child.


16 posted on 11/14/2012 1:18:57 PM PST by Mark (For the first time in my life, I'm no longer proud of my country.)
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To: TheWryFederalist

The slave States are now the ones run by Democrats. The ones that have indebted their citizens and all others with Trillions of dollars of debt, abortion, loss of freedoms etc.


17 posted on 11/14/2012 1:19:52 PM PST by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
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To: TheWryFederalist

Secession is a bitter concept for a leftist.
The thing that rankles them most is that people will be escaping their fascist subjugation without being severely punished for it.
The second thing they fear is the exposure of the contrast between economic liberty and collectivism. Given the choice, the unproductive will choose to live off others, and the productive will chose liberty. They can’t survive with this choice available and they know it. That’s why they implement all their schemes at the federal level instead of in the states.


18 posted on 11/14/2012 1:21:42 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
There are constitutional processes to admit new states, but none that I am aware of to allow states to leave.

Well in that case:

Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

If a state declared its independence from Obama’s rule, what would happen? That is uncharted territory.

Didn't Santayana say "Those who do not remember Lincoln are condemned to repeat him" ... or something like that?

19 posted on 11/14/2012 1:21:49 PM PST by KarlInOhio (Big Bird is a brood parasite: laid in our nest 43 years ago and we are still feeding him.)
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To: TheWryFederalist

Signing the petiton is just asking for a visit from the Feds.

Don’t be stupid. Don’t be a target.


20 posted on 11/14/2012 1:21:49 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: TheWryFederalist

And the lord knows?

Well the writer of the article got that part right along with a few other things.

There is no way Obama is going to give any one permission to succeed from the union any more than what England did or than Abraham Lincoln did.

Obama has spent 4 years working hard to make himself a dictator, i don,t think he would give it up on any terms, even an election that went against him.


21 posted on 11/14/2012 1:21:53 PM PST by ravenwolf
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To: JackOfVA

Good point. The Civil War would be the “legal precedent” so to speak, that states can’t just decide to secede.


22 posted on 11/14/2012 1:22:03 PM PST by Dilbert San Diego ('s)
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To: skeeter

Cute, but who’ll bail CA’s ass out when it hits the fiscal wall, genius?
_____________________________________________________________
We’ll just have to nuke ‘em.


23 posted on 11/14/2012 1:22:03 PM PST by sanjuanbob
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To: TheWryFederalist

True, this is highly unlikely barring a cataclysmic event.
But like all such things, it also depends on having a seed planted out there, to make the unspoken speakable, if only to be dismissed. Many things that are absurd notions at one time have become inevitabilities. So, now, we have the notion planted. Should the time come it will be there.

As for the practicality of the option -

- If Texas goes, so will 20+ other states. These will be a viable economy by any measure.

- Unlike in 1861 the preponderance of industry will be in the seceding states.

- Unlike in 1861 there will be no likelihood of the Federal government being in a position to raise Union armies; the military class, which is huge now compared to then, would be ideologically unsympathetic to the Federal government. Its hard to believe that they would obey orders in such a crisis.

- More, even what militarily relevant industry exists in the new “Union” would be owned and operated by people unsympathetic to the “Union”.

- Federal tax revenues are not so lopsided as the author states; and in addition much of the disproportion in tax revenues is due to the nominal place that national businesses report their incomes. For instance companies make their profits in South Carolina but report it for tax purposes in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, California, etc. A new Confederacy would capture such taxes.


24 posted on 11/14/2012 1:22:32 PM PST by buwaya
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To: TheWryFederalist

Good. We’re free to go then?


25 posted on 11/14/2012 1:23:28 PM PST by Calpublican
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To: Mark
Mean spirited remarks have never fed even one hungry child.

Mean spiritedness and false outrage are hallmarks of the left.

26 posted on 11/14/2012 1:24:00 PM PST by Drill Thrawl (We have crossed the line from independence & liberty to dependency & servitude. We are doomed)
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To: TheWryFederalist

As long as the pot heads in CA have the hope that Obama will bail them out, all will be well. It would be great if sane states would not have to contribute to the Lost Cause on the West Coast, so secession would be a boon for those abandoning this sinking ship of state.


27 posted on 11/14/2012 1:24:05 PM PST by txrefugee
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To: redgolum

If enough sign, however, it would overload (cloward-piven) the goons.


28 posted on 11/14/2012 1:24:25 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: TheWryFederalist
Somebody needs to remind the writer that California liberals were all for it in 04.

Blue states buzz over secession
29 posted on 11/14/2012 1:24:33 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: veritas2002

That’s where I am now...

Yeah, he “won”, but it was obvious that fraud was involved, and I have accepted the fact that we’re now living in an illegitimate tyranny.

What to do about it? Haven’t decided. The revolution is you, though. Start in your own back yard and community.


30 posted on 11/14/2012 1:24:54 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: TheWryFederalist

Just so they understand, we will not pay alimony and child support. Looks like they’re going to have to get a job.


31 posted on 11/14/2012 1:25:45 PM PST by Toespi
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To: JackOfVA

[i]Without being too flippant, wasn’t this decided in 1861-65, where the answer was that the side with the largest army got to make the succession rules?[/i]

Does anyone actually think the United States would send its military to attack the government of the Republic of Texas? Does anyone actually think the military would obey such an order?

The cultural unity that makes secession unlikely is the very thing that would prevent a civil war in the case of secession. No citizen of the United States is going to tolerate the bombing of Houston over abstract principles of constitutional law, and there is no galvanizing moral issue here at play like slavery.


32 posted on 11/14/2012 1:25:51 PM PST by altsehastiin
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To: Berlin_Freeper

They could be the United States of America,
and refer to the former as the United State of America.


33 posted on 11/14/2012 1:26:04 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: buwaya

These are not your GGGF Yankees. There is no fight in them.


34 posted on 11/14/2012 1:26:29 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: TheWryFederalist

LOL Puerto Rico should reconsider their vote; they may end up being the United State of America.


35 posted on 11/14/2012 1:26:29 PM PST by Nickname
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To: sanjuanbob

from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.


36 posted on 11/14/2012 1:27:05 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

The unspoken fact is whole secession question seems to have arisen after 0bama stole the election. If he were removed, then would the secession movement be stopped? Also, if a state secedes, certainly 0bamascare is null and void and is the state no longer obligated for it’s share of the $16 Trillion debt?.


37 posted on 11/14/2012 1:27:38 PM PST by The Sons of Liberty (Remember the Heroic SEALs of Benghazi and DEMAND a Full Accounting!!!!)
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To: TheWryFederalist
Imagine living life in a new country where the original ideas expressed in the Constitution were the true limits of the federal government. Imagine living in a country where there is a tiny fraction of the violent crime our nation suffers today...after all, almost all of the violent felons in US prisons come from Democrat homes. Imagine a country where we celebrate education and achievement and truly ignore skin color and gender. Imagine having a military not hog-tied by idiotic, self-defeating regulations and policies that put a higher priority on political correctness than on the mission. Imagine a country where your children can grow up and learn true US history and celebrate the best of what it is to be an American, without some union teacher goon jumping down his throat and insisting he lives in an evil country. There is virtually no “bad” in this idea. Sure, there would be some initial confusion and pain. But in the long run we would create the most free and prosperous nation on earth, quickly overtake the old “liberal” states. And when they eventually collapse...and we know they will...allow them the opportunity to sell their assets back to us at pennies on the dollar.

If we only did this simply as a way to provide our children and grandchildren with the freedom and opportunity we had as children...to be able to grow up proud of their nation, secure as they lay in their beds at night, and safe to play in their neighborhoods everyday...that alone would be more than sufficient reason to endure virtually any pain or loss.

We still have time to save those things about America that are worth saving; those things that drew generations of immigrants to risk everything for the chance to one day be called An American. Liberalism is a proven gangrenous infection on the soul, on the heart, and the country. It has destroyed our school system, destroyed our economy, and is in the process of destroying our military and our medical system. We have one of two choices: we either separate ourselves from the infection or we suffer and die along with the infected part.

38 posted on 11/14/2012 1:29:04 PM PST by RavenATB
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To: TheWryFederalist
Is expressing the desire to secede an indication that a number of our fellow citizens want the left to understand that number of Americans can no longer live with the left?

Is the sucessionist expression a faint precurser of a coming Social War?

39 posted on 11/14/2012 1:29:13 PM PST by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

The social war is not “coming,” my friend. It’s here.


40 posted on 11/14/2012 1:30:42 PM PST by RavenATB
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To: The Sons of Liberty
The unspoken fact is whole secession question seems to have arisen after 0bama stole the election. Oh, to the contrary. Secession is attractive because Obama won the election, which suggests that we are at a tipping point where the unproductive have complete control of the government and can no longer be resisted by the productive.
41 posted on 11/14/2012 1:30:59 PM PST by altsehastiin
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To: skeeter

Cute, but who’ll bail CA’s ass out when it hits the fiscal wall, genius?
Idiot.


I doubt if there are enough people in California who are not socialists to get it done anyway, so why worry about the gays

You are not the only Idiot.


42 posted on 11/14/2012 1:31:11 PM PST by ravenwolf
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To: TheWryFederalist
Is expressing the desire to secede an indication that a number of our fellow citizens want the left to understand that number of Americans can no longer live with the left?

Is the sucessionist expression a faint precurser of a coming Social War?

43 posted on 11/14/2012 1:31:25 PM PST by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
Good point. The Civil War would be the “legal precedent” so to speak, that states can’t just decide to secede.

After the Civil War, the Supreme Court held in Texas v. White (1869) that there is no constitutional right for a state to secede.

44 posted on 11/14/2012 1:31:45 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: altsehastiin
Does anyone actually think the United States would send its military to attack the government of the Republic of Texas? Does anyone actually think the military would obey such an order?

The question then comes down to who is willing to shoot first. Let's say Texas does issue articles of secession. Will Obama pull the US military out of the new Republic of Texas? How about the EPA, OSHA, NASA or a thousand other federal agencies? Essentially Obama would ignore secession until United States facilities started being forcibly taken over by Republic of Texas forces. Pretty soon you would have a Fort Sumter situation where the Texans would have to shoot to remove US forces. Then after dozens of US troops have been killed by the Republic of Texas, would the rest of the military call for retreat or attack against the rebels?

45 posted on 11/14/2012 1:32:32 PM PST by KarlInOhio (Big Bird is a brood parasite: laid in our nest 43 years ago and we are still feeding him.)
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To: TheWryFederalist
But seeing as this country did fight the most bloody war in its history over the secession of the chattel slavery-holding states, it's sad to see that those are the same states that currently boast the most popular secession petitions.

Perfect Newspeak! Petitions are in protest of Federal oppression vis-a-vis tax slavery, i.e. we work so Obama supporters can 'share' the product. But he reverses the roles, and infers that we protest because we want our slaves back. Satan is the father of lies and its amazing how well his socialist followers apply his talents.

46 posted on 11/14/2012 1:32:32 PM PST by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: buwaya

“Many things that are absurd notions at one time have become inevitabilities.”

Just like the thought of Obama winning a second term. ;>)


47 posted on 11/14/2012 1:32:47 PM PST by Gator113 (I would have voted for NEWT, now it's Romney & Ryan.~Just livin' life, my way~)
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To: The Sons of Liberty

Obama’s not the problem, he’s the symptom and the result.

The problem is a bloated government that maintains its power by giving out freebies to people who vote for more freebies.

If not secession, then a strong application of the 10th amendment is necessary to provide a place where these freebies are not given out so freely, nor are the productive citizens penalized in order to provide them.

The sorting process would then begin.


48 posted on 11/14/2012 1:33:11 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: jeffc

“It’s an opening, a crack in the anti-secession cabal.”

I’m still waiting for someone, anyone, to propose a solution as to how you overcome, electorally, a majority now utterly dependent on government handouts and a political party determined to grow that majority to the greatest extent possible other than separation or surrender to it.


49 posted on 11/14/2012 1:33:23 PM PST by TheWryFederalist
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To: Dilbert San Diego

As I said, no one believes the Leviathan Moocher government will say have it your way and good luck to you.

It will take a precipitating catastrophic event.
like a financial collapse as some pretty smart money guys are saying is looming over the horizon.

When the USSR collapsed in the early 90s, its vassal states inside and outside of it declared their independence and the Kremlin was powerless to prevent it.


50 posted on 11/14/2012 1:33:38 PM PST by TheWryFederalist
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