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Should Texas be allowed to secede from the union?
CNN ^ | November 14th, 2012 | Jack Cafferty

Posted on 11/15/2012 9:42:16 AM PST by Pfesser

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To: Sam Gamgee

Yep. Came back to TX after 8 years and we are surrounded by all sorts of undesirables. Not the same TX I left.


51 posted on 11/15/2012 10:23:02 AM PST by bonfire
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To: docbnj
But if you wish to indulge in fantasy, why not pick some better ones? How about expelling states? I don’t know whether this is possible, but perhaps it could be done as a conspiracy.

Or, since we purchased Louisiana, we should be able to sell it. Since we already owe the Chinese a ton of money, . . . ;-)

52 posted on 11/15/2012 10:23:11 AM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Pfesser
I find all this succession talk to be the opposite of what we should be doing. This nation belongs to those of us who honor its founders and principles. The interlopers should be driven off.
53 posted on 11/15/2012 10:25:19 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: SkyDancer

Very clever!


54 posted on 11/15/2012 10:25:40 AM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: all the best

The Constitution is a contract (between the sovereign states and the Federal government). The nature of the Constitution has been altered so much in the last hundred years that the Federal government has breached the contract. On that basis, each individual state (or portion thereof) should be able to declare the contract “null and void” and to establish [a] new contract or contracts.


55 posted on 11/15/2012 10:25:56 AM PST by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: all the best
Thus the whole Revolution [of 1775–1783] turned upon, asserted, and, in theory, established, the right of each and every man, at his discretion, to release himself from the support of the government under which he had lived. And this principle was asserted, not as a right peculiar to themselves, or to that time, or as applicable only to the government then existing; but as a universal right of all men, at all times, and under all circumstances.

BINGO!

56 posted on 11/15/2012 10:27:37 AM PST by tentmaker (Galt's Gulch is a state of mind...)
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To: SkyDancer

If they accomplish it, I’m moving to Texas, asap! ... Hurry up, Texas, kick this liar in the mouth and get out of the collapsing cesspool of progressivism.


57 posted on 11/15/2012 10:28:09 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: myrabach
That’s perhaps the biggest truth! Some other states need to come along so we have enough room for everyone!

Kansas-Oklahoma-Texas = KOTEX
58 posted on 11/15/2012 10:29:31 AM PST by crosshairs (America: Once the land of the free. Still the home of the brave.)
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To: paglia444

I have been saying for the past four years that we need to be divided into two separate countries. North and South. I am very serious.


59 posted on 11/15/2012 10:29:59 AM PST by ilovesarah2012
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To: all the best

“3. Secession is treason/unAmerican/craaaazy/for slavers only. Prior to the confederacy, there were some slaveowners who got together and seceded from their government. They were called Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. If you’re opposed to the secession of 1776, then that’s fine, you might be consistent on this issue, but if you’re one of these right-wing pundits who thinks the Declaration of Independence should be read aloud every July 4, and then says that secession is nutso, you might try actually reading that document you profess to love.”

Yeah, what is with those guys?

They wanted us to read everything from the founding fathers and oddly forget why they were FOUNDING FATHERS!

And the stuff they broke from England over were about 90% questionable and 5% made up.

And none of it compares to the many legit reasons Texas and others want to split.


60 posted on 11/15/2012 10:30:26 AM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: bonfire

I have always been curious what Texans think of illegal immigration. Sometimes I get the impression that Texans are just fine with it as it supplies them cheap labor. Certainly books like the “The Time it never rained” leave that impression.


61 posted on 11/15/2012 10:30:51 AM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd
I'm thinking if everything goes to pieces, the map will look a lot like pre-confederation Germany. Some big places, some really tiny enclaves and exclaves.


62 posted on 11/15/2012 10:34:35 AM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: VanDeKoik

Of course they stole most of the Eastern part from Poland.


63 posted on 11/15/2012 10:35:42 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: reg45
The Constitution is a contract (between the sovereign states and the Federal government).

The text of the Constitution indicates that it was a product of the "people" of the United States, not their state governments:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. "

64 posted on 11/15/2012 10:36:13 AM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Pfesser

I can hear it now- “We have not yet begun to quit!”


65 posted on 11/15/2012 10:36:27 AM PST by equaviator (There's nothing like the universe to bring you down to earth.)
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To: Pfesser

Texas NEEDS to secede. Just think how many productive people will flock to the state just to avoid Federal taxes. True, an independent TX would have to have some taxes, but it would be a pittance compared the the rest of the US. If Texas goes blue because of US amnesty, this opportunity for liberty will have been lost forever.


66 posted on 11/15/2012 10:41:16 AM PST by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est; zero sera dans l'enfer bientot)
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To: Pfesser

You know what is interesting is that whatever Romney ends up with (47, 48, 49% whatever), that number is far more passionately opposed to obama than anything in my lifetime.

No matter how you look at it, 100,000 signatures seems to be a big number.

I think this is a noteworthy development. Not as a “cause” of something that is going to happen as a result, but more of as an “effect”....which will eventually be another “cause” of something else down the road. That something else will most assuredly not be secession anytime soon. But...it will be something. Not sure what.


67 posted on 11/15/2012 10:41:34 AM PST by ConservativeDude
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To: grobdriver

Absolutely correct


68 posted on 11/15/2012 10:44:29 AM PST by Quickgun (I came here screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I can go out that way if I have to)
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To: Tau Food

Those “people” were organized into “states”. But, either way, the constitutional contract has been breached.


69 posted on 11/15/2012 10:45:27 AM PST by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: Tau Food

Texans are Texans first, Americans second. I voted on the whitehouse website, I’d vote for secession if it comes up for a real vote, and I wouldn’t have to think twice about it. It has nothing to do with hatred for the US. It has to do with a govt that is no longer accountable to the people, and outright hostile to people that want them to obey our Constitution.


70 posted on 11/15/2012 10:45:54 AM PST by Sporke (USS Iowa BB-61)
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To: ConservativeDude

Right, no winner is ever guilty of war crimes...


71 posted on 11/15/2012 10:48:03 AM PST by Quickgun (I came here screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I can go out that way if I have to)
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To: Pfesser

America is the world’s brightest example of what can come from the right to self-determination (the right to seceed). The power of the individual state to determine its own course is expressed rather clearly in our most famous foundational document:

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.


72 posted on 11/15/2012 10:48:19 AM PST by RavenATB
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To: Pfesser

I suspect most signers just wanted to make a statement.
The petition IS making quite a statement.

I’m a native Texan, and I wouldn’t want to leave the union.
I want the Marxist/Muslim out of our White House!


73 posted on 11/15/2012 10:51:06 AM PST by patriot08 (Native Texan)
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To: PGR88

We are used to 30/1 odds. We can hold our own.


74 posted on 11/15/2012 10:52:08 AM PST by Quickgun (I came here screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I can go out that way if I have to)
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To: uncommonsense

Please don’t forget we states to the east: Mississippi, Alabama and North Florida (north of the I-4 corridor.)


75 posted on 11/15/2012 10:53:38 AM PST by Mouton (Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)
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To: reg45
Our Founders knew the difference between "people" and "states.". Our Constitution was produced by the "people" of the United States. They bound themselves together into one nation, the USA, and they didn't provide for any procedure by which some state government could sever the bonds that the people of the United States of America have with one another.

The people of the United States did provide for a process by which their Constitution could be amended and even gave state governments a role in that process. The first legal step toward any secession requires an amendment to the Constitution to provide for the proper means by which there can be any legal "secession."

76 posted on 11/15/2012 10:56:34 AM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: SkyDancer

lol... perfect!


77 posted on 11/15/2012 11:01:01 AM PST by AAABEST (Et lux in tenebris lucet: et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt)
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To: Pfesser

If they want out, maybe more will follow. Look at the refineries and off shore drilling that would take place if say everything from Texas to Mississippi were to become independent. Talk about an oil rich nation not controlled by the Muzzies or Commies. Not that they would want it, but they could buy the remains of California in a couple of years.


78 posted on 11/15/2012 11:01:07 AM PST by Steamburg (The contents of your wallet is the only language Politicians understand.)
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To: Sporke
Texans are Texans first, Americans second.

That sounds like something you might put on a bumper sticker. How about "God, the Dallas Cowboys and Texas!"

79 posted on 11/15/2012 11:02:49 AM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Sam Gamgee

Many Texans around here prospered by allowing illegals to come and work. They kept a very low profile, and didn’t dare try to “milk” the system, they knew they would be deported. What has happened is the feds have unleashed the illegals on us, and they know they can get freebies now, with almost no chance of deportation.The arrangement as it was was good for Texas, and good for the Mexicans who really wanted to work. The low wages they were paid here bought lots in Mexico. Another case of the Fed Gov. screwing up the balance in Texas.Another reason we need to get out.


80 posted on 11/15/2012 11:02:49 AM PST by Quickgun (I came here screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I can go out that way if I have to)
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To: Venturer
Texas is a big State, but I doubt even Texas could hold all of the people who would be leaving the US for citizenship in Texas.

It's been mathematically proven that Texas could comfortably house all 7 billion of earth's inhabitants in three bedroom houses, with no more than three occupants per house.

Wouldn't be much land left over for farming or other purposes, but it could be done.

81 posted on 11/15/2012 11:03:32 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: PGR88

“Problem is - and Independent Texas will have enemies on two sides”

How is that any different from today?


82 posted on 11/15/2012 11:04:38 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: grobdriver

If we decide to go, we should just go and screw getting “permission”

Texas would not make it with out the federal welfare they get...much more than a lot of states.


83 posted on 11/15/2012 11:05:50 AM PST by napscoordinator (GOP Candidate 2020 - "Bloomberg 2020 - We vote for whatever crap the GOP puts in front of us.")
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To: massgopguy

“The dividing of or merging of states is prohibited by the Constitution.”

Texas is an exception!


84 posted on 11/15/2012 11:06:01 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: napscoordinator

“Texas would not make it with out the federal welfare they get...much more than a lot of states”

So we ship ‘em off at the border since they are wards of the US.


85 posted on 11/15/2012 11:10:53 AM PST by JCBreckenridge (They may take our lives... but they'll never take our FREEDOM!)
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To: napscoordinator
Texas would not make it with out the federal welfare they get...much more than a lot of states.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/fas-09.pdf

You were saying?
How about 8th from the bottom in 2010, and consistently at the low end?
I bet after adjusting to the situation Texas would fare better than any other state.

86 posted on 11/15/2012 11:17:09 AM PST by grobdriver
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To: all the best

If no secession is allowed, then the state of West Virginia should not exist as the Constitution specifically prohibits the forming of a state from within the boundaries of another state.


87 posted on 11/15/2012 11:20:04 AM PST by rfreedom4u (I have a copy of the Constitution! And I'm not afraid to use it!)
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To: MichaelAsher54

Perry has been merely tolerated here since before his last election. He may very well be shown the door this next time. If you want him in CA, you’re welcome to him and his hair gel.


88 posted on 11/15/2012 11:20:16 AM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: grobdriver

I’ll wager my next SocSec check (electronically signed by Baraq Hussein Obama, btw) that Texas will go blue in a POTUS election vs. seceeding from the union.


89 posted on 11/15/2012 11:21:19 AM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's bankruptcy: 2016)
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To: mkboyce

Not often you run into people promoting conquering America outside of Al Qaeda.


90 posted on 11/15/2012 11:22:04 AM PST by sakic
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To: rfreedom4u
If no secession is allowed, then the state of West Virginia should not exist as the Constitution specifically prohibits the forming of a state from within the boundaries of another state.

Agree.

91 posted on 11/15/2012 11:24:18 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: nascarnation
I’ll wager my next SocSec check (electronically signed by Baraq Hussein Obama, btw) that Texas will go blue in a POTUS election vs. seceeding from the union.

I think you may have just caused a sharp increase in demand for real estate in Idaho. ;-)

92 posted on 11/15/2012 11:24:35 AM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: grobdriver

http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/fas-09.pdf

Your just talking about the welfare money that you all get. I am adding all the federal land that drains our coffers. You would have to start paying for that land and all those millions of bases you have....Good Luck with that.


93 posted on 11/15/2012 11:25:44 AM PST by napscoordinator (GOP Candidate 2020 - "Bloomberg 2020 - We vote for whatever crap the GOP puts in front of us.")
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To: nascarnation
No bet, for 2016.

If something isn't done about the illegals by our state government and damn the feds, I think you'll be right.

The country is lost - the state will be next... unless we stop it.
Four years is both a long time away... and tomorrow.

94 posted on 11/15/2012 11:27:29 AM PST by grobdriver
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To: drew

I am as unhappy as anyone at the results of the November 6th election.

This IMO is not the answer.

If we believe Conservatism has a better set of ideals, then we should set about to sell those ideals more convincingly to others.

If we cannot do that, then we have to accept that our ideals are so severely flawed, they can’t win the day.

I’m not going to buy into that, ever.

What we win here, has to be better than what we lose here.

If we do win states that break away, we will immediately have a massive military power on our border, that will be our enemy.

We will no longer be able to bring stability to the world. And when we can’t do that any longer, we’ll be the planetary public enemy number one, without the ability to defend ourselves.

This has massive ‘fail’ written all over it.

That being the case, I salute Sam Houston, and line up behind him.


95 posted on 11/15/2012 11:30:05 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Hurricane Sandy..., a week later and 48 million Americans still didn't have power.)
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To: napscoordinator
You would have to start paying for that land and all those millions of bases you have....

Why?

96 posted on 11/15/2012 11:30:38 AM PST by grobdriver
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To: PGR88
Problem is - and Independent Texas will have enemies on two sides Mexico on the South, and the Federales on the North.

and this is different than it already is now ?

97 posted on 11/15/2012 11:31:37 AM PST by kingattax (99 % of liberals give the rest a bad name)
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To: Pfesser

“Allowed”?!

Don’t mess with Texas! haha


98 posted on 11/15/2012 11:36:51 AM PST by UnwashedPeasant
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To: grobdriver

Because they belong to the Federal Government. I don’t even know how it could happen. Social Security payments would stop. Income taxes would stop too but certainly state taxes would skyrocket. All those illegals you guys have would be a burden that you let the federal government help pay for. And the Governor is not even supporting the idea because he sees it could not possibly work.


99 posted on 11/15/2012 11:42:57 AM PST by napscoordinator (GOP Candidate 2020 - "Bloomberg 2020 - We vote for whatever crap the GOP puts in front of us.")
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To: grobdriver

Amen!!!


100 posted on 11/15/2012 11:53:27 AM PST by tayper (Granny told me, Saying it don't make it so)
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