Posted on 11/28/2012 12:30:52 PM PST by TurboZamboni
Two weeks ago, I pointed out Section 1555, one of the major chinks in PPACA's armor according to an attorney at the Goldwater Institute. Section 1555 is in the law under "Subtitle G - Miscellaneous Provisions." Since bringing this up, I've heard from some who believe that this section is limited solely to those who sell ("issue") health insurance.
Here again is Section 1555: "No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendment), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs."
I've contacted Goldwater Institute's attorney, Nick Dranius, and other attorneys for more information and opinions. I've also transcribed Mr. Dranius's webinar comments so you can read them for yourself. See "News to Know" below.
(Excerpt) Read more at healthenews.cchfreedom.org ...
2) The language is ambiguous. There are two possible interpretations of the language:
Interpretation #1: The placement of the comma before the word "or" means that the words preceding it ("individual, company, business, nonprofit entity") are not modified by the words,"issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage."
Interpretation #2: If you disregard the placement of the comma, or otherwise disagree with the above interpretation, the entire opt-out section applies only to entities "offering group or individual health insurance coverage" -- including individuals, companies, etc.
3) Final interpretation may be left to judges if Section 1555 is used in a legal challenge.
4) Given all the mandates in the rest of the law (the totality of the law), some judges may dismiss this section, but others may not.
5) For states with health care freedom acts that challenge Obamacare in court, Section 1555's ambiguity may have to be considered and a legal interpretation made. But regardless of the interpretation of this section, the fact remains that states, employers and individuals can opt-out of compliance -- and in some cases may even be able to avoid the penalties for doing so (read Michael Cannon in Quotes below).
Individuals and employers still have power. As Justice Roberts ruled, no one can be forced to buy insurance. Likewise, no one has to sell insurance and no one is required to provide insurance. There are penalties for refusing to buy or provide insurance, but they are significantly less than the cost of buying or providing insurance. As the price of insurance skyrockets under Obamacare, expect more and more individuals and businesses to choose penalties rather than insurance.
It sounds like any business that offers health insurance to employees does not need to comply. Especially businesses that sell health insurance, such as insurers and brokers. Is that what you are saying?
...if you can sell it to the judge. sure.
I predict opting out will be as common and easy as making a union comply with the Beck decision and giving back the part of your dues back they use for electing rats.
According to this judge of the US District Court for the Western District of Oklahoma, the answer is NO. Judge: Obama Admin Can Force Hobby Lobby to Obey HHS Mandate
I hope Hobby Lobby, and thousands of other employers, can successfully opt out under Section 1555.
If ADF,Landmark Legal and other similar Constitution-upholding groups go to bat for people in need of help , I could see this working and spreading.
Death by a thousand cuts...like the leftard hoplophobes do with their gun control.
The options (as described by this article) are:
1) Not have any medical insurance coverage for yourself of your family.
2) Buy a stand-alone policy for your family. The cost of which will be in the ballpark of $20,000 a year (due to the new federal mandates in ObamaCare you will not be able to buy a high-deductable, catastrophic policy).
3) Buy a policy through an exchange (either your state exchange or the federal exchange if your state doesn’t set one up). Cost? About $5,000 a year.
$5,000 vs $20,000 vs no-insurance
These are the 3 choices you will face if your employer decides to drop coverage, pay the fine, and let their employees fall under ObamaCare (which a lot of employers are going to do in 2014, regardless of whether their state has set up an exchange).
No-insurance is a non-starter for me. Sorry, but I’m not going to put my family in a position to risk financial ruin to make a political point.
Paying an extra $15,000 a year to make a political point is also a non-starter for me—I simply don’t have the money. So, I won’t be purchasing a stand-alone policy.
Which leaves me with only one practical alternative: purchase health insurance form the govt pool.
I don’t like how this works out, but this is how ObamaCare is designed—to box citizens in and leave them with only one practical alternative.
*
Why would any business that is ALREADY offering health insurance to its employees opt out?
The cost of participating in ObamaCare will be LESS for them than opting out. The fine per employee is waaaaaaay less than they pay currently per employee for coverage.
They can wash their hands of providing health care. The administration costs, the employee headaches, all of it. Companies are not in business to provide benefits to employees. They want to concentrate on their business (printing, building trucks, or whatever it is).
If you are moslem I believe you can. Also Amish.
I'm a bit out of step with the church, having a razor, a car, electricity, a smart phone, and firearms, but I'm struggling to reconcile. No one can deny me my religion, no matter how much of a sinner I am.
Political correctness can cut both ways, if you're clever.
“If you are moslem I believe you can. Also Amish.”
The question isn’t if you can opt out, the question is what happens if your employer opts in?
You can’t keep your old insurance (which was a lie to begin with) if your employer drops its coverage and dumps all its employees into the government pool.
You forgot to add the fact that Obamacare will force people of faith to violate their conscience if they choose the exchanges. Paying for abortifacients and contraception for others may not be a deal breaker for you, but it is for millions of Catholics and Christians. And no one said you can’t receive treatment if you’re not insured. Maybe you shouldn’t be so quick to throw in the towel.
OK clever guy, you’ve discovered your Amish roots and opted out of ObamaCare.
Meanwhile, your employer (along with 90% of the businesses in your state) has decided to opt-in to ObamaCare, because (1) it’s cheaper for companies that were providing medical insurance to their employees to do so, and (2) since most other companies are opting in also, there’s no competitive disadvantage to them opting in. So, you can no longer obtain health insurance for your family through your employer.
Where are you going to get health insurance? Or, are you going to allow your family to go uninsured?
The Obamacare law actually says yes; however, the IRS goon that comes after you if you opt out will probably have a different opinion.
“No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendment), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs.”
http://www.coachisright.com/the-law-itself-says-virtually-no-one-has-to-participate-in-obamacare/
Even if all this stuff is true about the law, there is no way out—the Medicare law is also “voluntary” for those over 65!
I believe the Christian health sharing ministries also qualify for the opt-out.
These are great because they direct-pay and you can get discounts from the doctors and facilities... for now.
Since the left’s goal is to control your access to healthcare, this will not remain open long.
In the end, no one will be able to buy or sell without “the mark”.
Amd P.S. there is NOT one conservative group out there that has the GUTS or the FUNDS for such a lawsuit!
A Kentucky judge has ruled the Christian health sharing ministries can’t operate in Kentucky.
I doubt it. All of the lawyers who studied it and looked for a way to oppose it concluded that it constituted an unconstitutional individual mandate. If it was optional, the lawyers could not have even made that argument.
If you're under 65, I think that the only way to avoid Obamacare is to emigrate.
Hobby Lobby has not, so far, brought up this weakness in the law, as far as I know.
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