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AAA SAYS CERTAIN ETHANOL FUEL CAN DAMAGE CARS, ASKS EPA TO REMOVE FROM PUMPS
Human Events ^ | 11/30/2012 | Audrey Hudson

Posted on 12/03/2012 12:08:34 AM PST by neverdem

The recently approved use of E15 fuel made from blending gasoline and ethanol could damage vehicles and void warranties says the American Automobile Association (AAA), which is urging the federal government to ban it from the market.

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) approved the fuel earlier this summer, but AAA says only five percent of vehicles on the road are approved by the manufacturers to use the special blend they say causes significant problems such as accelerated engine wear and failure, fuel-system damage and false “check engine” warning lights.

The auto club conducted a recent survey it says identifies confusion among consumers as to which vehicles can use the fuel — 95 percent of those surveyed had never heard of E15, which contains 15 percent ethanol.

“It is clear that millions of Americans are unfamiliar with E15, which means there is a strong possibility that many motorists may improperly fill up using this gasoline and damage their vehicle,” said Robert Darbelnet, AAA president. “Bringing E15 to the market without adequate safeguards does not responsibly meet the needs of consumers.”

Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), former chairman of the House Science Committee, said the findings confirm concerns on Capitol Hill that the fuel can damage cars.

Gasoline blended with 10 percent ethanol is readily available at most gas stations nationwide, but E15 is only sold at a few stations in Kansas, Iowa and Nebraska.

“Concerns about E15 are not diminishing, they are increasing. That is telling,” Sensenbrenner said. “When an organization like AAA, a nationally trusted source for motorists, calls out the EPA, you would think the administration would listen.”

The EPA has not yet responded to the AAA’s request.

Several manufactures including BMW, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota and Volkswagon are refusing to cover vehicle warranties for damage caused by E15. More are signaling they will follow suit, including General Motors, Ford, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz and Volvo, according to AAA.

The only vehicles currently approved by automakers to use E15 are flex-fuel models manufactured in 2001 and after, including some Porsches, General Motors and Ford. The use of E15 is expressly prohibited in heavy-duty vehicles including boats, motorcycles, power equipment, lawn mowers and off-road vehicles.

“The sale and use of E15 should be suspended until additional gas pump labeling and consumer education efforts are implemented to mitigate problems for motorists and their vehicles,” Darbelnet said. ”Consumers should carefully read pump labels and know their auto manufacturer’s recommendations to help prevent any problems from E15.”


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: aaa; corn; e15; e15e10; e15gasoline; energy; epa; ethanol; ethanoldamage
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1 posted on 12/03/2012 12:08:52 AM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Mandated use of a substance that solves a non-existant problem, and does so in the least efficient and most damaging way possible.

F#%^ing brilliant.


2 posted on 12/03/2012 12:15:06 AM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: neverdem

And because the heat content per gallon in ethanol is lower than that of gasoline, your mileage goes down in direct proportion to the amount of Ethanol in the blend. Then there is also the problem with ethanol attacking plastic and rubber parts in the fuel system and the fact that alcohols are miscible in water so you can have problems with fuel system corrosion. Other than that, ethanol is a great fuel and using it drives up the prices on all the foods you eat that contain corn.


3 posted on 12/03/2012 12:22:35 AM PST by vette6387
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To: neverdem

They don’t care, I contacted them and I have to go haul empty plastic jugs to get my gas now for all my small engines and old cars.

These people really do have their blinders on “Forward”.


4 posted on 12/03/2012 12:29:52 AM PST by dila813
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To: Little Pig

You should see what *all* ethanol does to the guts of a Harley.


5 posted on 12/03/2012 12:41:04 AM PST by Salamander (If animals could speak, mankind would weep.)
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To: neverdem
LOL !

why would the enemy of liberty care about what method they use to destroy that liberty

their response to AAA would be "good we can see its working, thank you, now go away before we tell the IRS or insurance czar to shut you down"

6 posted on 12/03/2012 12:41:12 AM PST by KTM rider ( , you'd be lucky to get $7....LOL !)
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To: Little Pig
Mandated use of a substance that solves a non-existant problem, and does so in the least efficient and most damaging way possible.

Only Congress could arrive at such a construct.

7 posted on 12/03/2012 12:42:02 AM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA; Ignorance on parade.)
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To: neverdem
The use of E15 is expressly prohibited in heavy-duty vehicles including boats, motorcycles, power equipment, lawn mowers and off-road vehicles.

The warranty on my 2008 Nissan outboard "recommends not using fuel that contains more than 10% ethanol or 5% methanol". The warranty further states that "using fuel containing ANY alcohol may void the warranty".

The Ethanol Industry has spent a ton of money on lobbying, advertising and public relations for E-10, now they are pushing E-15.

NASCAR is sponsored by Ethanol and their cars use E-15. E-15 for races is not stored in underground tanks as fuel was for decades. If you look you will see 18 wheel tankers parked behind the pits at races. Of course NASCAR does not like to about the reasons this is done.

BTW we are now importing Ethanol!

8 posted on 12/03/2012 12:48:19 AM PST by TYVets
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To: neverdem

The chimpanzee in White House and his idiot followers could’nt care less about our cars. They hate oil. So they push ethanol made from corn. Ethanol is still hydrocarbon burning, generating as much CO2 as gasoline.


9 posted on 12/03/2012 1:17:42 AM PST by entropy12 (The republic is doomed when people figure out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: neverdem

Which is one reason I like one of the local gas chains, the “Liberty” stations. Pure gas. ZERO Ethanol. No idea how they get away with it, but they do. . .


10 posted on 12/03/2012 1:23:57 AM PST by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: Salgak
I have bad news for you. The ethanol is added at the tank farms where the gas tankers pick it up. The only difference between different name brands is the amount of ethanol in the gas. No gasoline is sold without ethanol added to it.
11 posted on 12/03/2012 1:39:20 AM PST by Nitehawk0325 (Credo quia absurdum, I believe it because it is absurd.)
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To: Salgak
I like one of the local gas chains, the “Liberty” stations. Pure gas. ZERO Ethanol.

You might look at the web site: Pure-Gas.org.

They list stations by state and city that sell gasoline with no ethanol.

12 posted on 12/03/2012 1:56:38 AM PST by TYVets
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To: Little Pig

I do a moderate amount of fixings on older snowmachines in Alaska and I see occasionally cases where the pick up hose in the fuel tank splits because of certain fuels coming from Anchorage years ago, they tried adding something to the fuel years ago to create less clouding in arctic temps, well it immediately screwed up several thousand cars and the oxygen sensors.

I bought an older Honda CX 500 some years ago, had some ethanol type of gas in it and was in storage, ate all the rubber diaphragms apart. Fortunately where I am in Wasilla we do NOT have to be forced to buy ethanol added fuel here, no two hose pumps with vapor bellows or febrile pumps that just trickle the gas in to reduce vapors escaping while fueling.

Ethanol is good for race cars and engines designed to run off it, you cannot even use that gas in older boats with fiberglass fuel tanks, eats the resin up.


13 posted on 12/03/2012 1:57:31 AM PST by Eye of Unk (A Civil Cold War in America is here, its already been declared.)
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To: Nitehawk0325; Salgak
No gasoline is sold without ethanol added to it.

Not true.

Oxygenated fuel is required only within metro areas with persistent air quality problems (which, in fact, amounts to just about every metro area in the country...according to the EPA).

However, rural areas beyond the bounds of the metro areas are not required to use oxygenated fuels. If those rural areas draw their gasoline from terminals located within the metro area, they may or may not receive ethanol in their gasoline -- depending upon the distributor's policy.

However, if they draw from terminals outside the metro area, there will be no ethanol added.

For example, whenever I drive from the small town in Texas where I live (in the DFW metro area), thru Western Oklahoma up to Western Kansas to visit family, the gasoline I buy in Clinton, OK (e.g.) and Hays, KS will not contain ethanol.

And I will get 15% better gas mileage from those tanks...

14 posted on 12/03/2012 1:58:29 AM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA; Ignorance on parade.)
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To: Nitehawk0325
No gasoline is sold without ethanol added to it.

Try Pure-Gas.org by state and city, you might want to revise that statement.

15 posted on 12/03/2012 2:00:48 AM PST by TYVets
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To: okie01

Fairbanks and Anchorage were the cities that tried using oxygenated fuels back around 1993, caused way too many problems back then. It can be absolutely terrible when you have hundreds of idling cars in th edead of winter running, even at stoplights it creates a mass of moisture laden fog in sub zero temps.

They think 02 enriched fuel will solve that, only made for people having their engines die in minus 40 temps and they themselves dying. That happened some years ago, a whole family froze to death, because of bad fuel.


16 posted on 12/03/2012 2:06:38 AM PST by Eye of Unk (A Civil Cold War in America is here, its already been declared.)
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To: KTM rider
"their response to AAA would be "good we can see its working, thank you, now go away before we tell the IRS or insurance czar to shut you down""

Right on. The AAA has committed the sin of Wrong Thinking. There will be consequences and pressure will be brought to bear to assure that the Regime's diktats are not questioned.

17 posted on 12/03/2012 2:34:22 AM PST by Truth29
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To: okie01; Nitehawk0325; Salgak
Our daughter has a brother in law that bought a Flex Fuel (E-85) pick up.

They were talking about mileage and she suggested he use regular gas, not E-85. He lives in the St Louis area and I assume he can only buy oxygenated fuel.

He started using regular gasoline and got 25% higher mileage. I ask her to repeat that number and she said 25% is what he told me.

I ask the local GM service manager about that big increase in mileage. He told me that "GM says 30% better mileage for a Flex Fuel (E-85) vehicles when the owner switches to regular gas".

okie01: I live in a rural area, my mileage increased 11% when I stopped using gasoline that contains 10% ethanol (E-10) and went to gasoline that does not contain any ethanol. Same highway, same driving style.

18 posted on 12/03/2012 2:36:27 AM PST by TYVets
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To: TYVets

okie01: I live in a rural area, my mileage increased 11% when I stopped using gasoline that contains 10% ethanol (E-10) and went to gasoline that does not contain any ethanol. Same highway, same driving style.
*************************************************
When I visit IOWA all the gas stations there give you a choice of 87 octane regular (no alcohol) or 89/90 octane mid-grade (with alcohol) , the “with alcohol” is always about $0.10 cheaper per gallon but as all here have noted it costs you a lot of mileage... The corn farmers aren’t stupid ,, I saw very few people choosing the corn pump...


19 posted on 12/03/2012 3:17:42 AM PST by Neidermeyer
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To: Eye of Unk
Ethanol is good for race cars and engines designed to run off it, you cannot even use that gas in older boats with fiberglass fuel tanks, eats the resin up.

I know 2 homebuilt aircraft pilots running auto gas who's fiberglass tanks did just that. One landed on a highway, the other limped along, called a percautionary landing and this was during the test flight phase. He has since had to do a major redue to remove the tank and put an all aluminum one in.

20 posted on 12/03/2012 3:39:47 AM PST by taildragger (( Tighten the 5 point harness and brace for Impact Freepers, ya know it's coming..... ))
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To: neverdem

Gasoline blended with 10 percent ethanol is readily available at most gas stations nationwide, but E15 is only sold at a few stations in Kansas, Iowa and Nebraska.

The gas mileage on e15 is amazingly low but since the people of these states consider ethanol and ethanol subsidies to be a patriotic litmus test, let them burn it.


21 posted on 12/03/2012 3:57:43 AM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: Nitehawk0325

No gasoline is sold without ethanol added to it.

That may be true in some areas but around here (OK)the number of stations carrying ethanol adulterated gas is dwindling.


22 posted on 12/03/2012 4:01:35 AM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: neverdem

Obama will simply have the EPA order mfgs to honor the warranties.

GM and Chrysler will certainly obey...


23 posted on 12/03/2012 4:09:22 AM PST by ltc8k6
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To: Nitehawk0325

No, you can get ethanol free gas in many states.


24 posted on 12/03/2012 4:11:01 AM PST by ltc8k6
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To: neverdem

I miss Sunoco 260. That stuff was good forever.


25 posted on 12/03/2012 4:31:01 AM PST by SueRae (It isn't over. In God We Trust.)
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To: neverdem
AAA SAYS CERTAIN ETHANOL FUEL CAN DAMAGE CARS


26 posted on 12/03/2012 4:33:44 AM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: Salamander
You should see what *all* ethanol does to the guts of a Harley.

Doesn't do the guts of a human any favors, either. ;-)

27 posted on 12/03/2012 4:40:48 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: neverdem

Burn the corn for fuel, don’t use it for food.
So if Obama “starves to death” the poor people of world, we won’t have as many illegal aliens sneaking into the US.


28 posted on 12/03/2012 4:52:57 AM PST by jacob allen
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To: Nitehawk0325
No gasoline is sold without ethanol added to it.

Very easy test. Put a quantity of gas in a clear container (jelly jar for example)and mark a line where the gas comes to. Add a quantity of water. Shake the container vigorously. This will cause the alcohol and water to mix. When it settles, see how much "less" gas you have.

29 posted on 12/03/2012 5:02:47 AM PST by IamConservative (The soul of my lifes journey is Liberty!)
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To: Nitehawk0325
"No gasoline is sold without ethanol added to it."

Not true. A station very close to me has gasoline without added ethanol. Or at least they have signage saying so. This is in an area close to Puget Sound where many folk have boat engines that cannot tolerate ANY ethanol.

30 posted on 12/03/2012 5:07:22 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: neverdem

(but E15 is only sold at a few stations in Kansas, Iowa and Nebraska.)
_______________________________
I don’t know where this writer is getting their info...
E-85 is in many states.
http://www.waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx?f=1&guid=6d4089d7-d50b-4be3-b2a4-f871b25d88a7&wo=True&wst=1&st=2


31 posted on 12/03/2012 5:13:28 AM PST by libertarian27 (Check my profile page for the FReeper Online Cookbook 2011)
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To: neverdem

And even though we have gobs of natural gas, a fuel that cars run well on, and actually will make engines last longer and the air cleaner, because it burns so clean..................................

PLUS NG would allow the US to keep the TRILLIONS of dollars that go to countries that hate us, HERE, in the US to make our economy stronger.


32 posted on 12/03/2012 5:16:39 AM PST by weezel
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To: Nitehawk0325
I have bad news for you. The ethanol is added at the tank farms where the gas tankers pick it up. The only difference between different name brands is the amount of ethanol in the gas. No gasoline is sold without ethanol added to it.

Other products rely on "blender" pumps; I'm pretty sure E85 stations have separate ethanol storage tanks. BTW, that's how most stations dispense mid-grade gasoline - blending regular and premium.

If it were all mixed as you suggest, the product would probably be more consistent. I've seen a number of articles about auto repair shops having fuel analyzed and discovering much higher ethanol content than 10%. Whether that is being done by design or by poorly calibrated blender pumps is the question.

33 posted on 12/03/2012 5:25:38 AM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: neverdem

I have located a small group of stations here in the Montgomery area that offer Ethanol Free gas. About 15-20 cents higher, but I am getting almost 2 MPG better mileage and the vehicles are running 100% better.


34 posted on 12/03/2012 5:29:30 AM PST by commish (The takers rule. Time to implement the triple G plan - GOD, GUNS, & GOLD)
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To: Little Pig

Part of their socialist plan to stimulate the economy by making people buy new cars because the new fuel destroys engines prematurely. The EPA is legislating through regulation and Congress is not doing a thing about it. Meanwhile the drones sleep....


35 posted on 12/03/2012 5:29:45 AM PST by toolman1401
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To: okie01
Oxygenated fuel is required only within metro areas with persistent air quality problems

That is only part of the federal EPA requirement. Some states also require Oxygenated fuel.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

In addition, the Renewable Fuel Standard requires a level of total percentage of the total gasoline used in the US. Although the metro area and state requirement contribute towards meeting this goal, it does not fulfill it. That forces companies to also add ethanol to their gasoline outside the metro areas or be fined.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-01-09/pdf/2011-33451.pdf

There still are locations without ethanol, but it is not all areas outside large metros.

36 posted on 12/03/2012 5:32:23 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: libertarian27
(but E15 is only sold at a few stations in Kansas, Iowa and Nebraska.)
_______________________________
I don’t know where this writer is getting their info...
E-85 is in many states.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

E15 is fifteen percent ethanol.
E85 is eighty-five percent ethanol.

They are not the same thing.

37 posted on 12/03/2012 5:35:23 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: neverdem

Why do state and federal governments really like ethanol blended fuels?

Adding alcohol to gasoline dilutes the fuel, and lowers the heat energy.
One US gallon of Gasoline (regular unleaded) = 114,100 BTU/gal
One US gallon of Ethanol (E100) = 76,100 BTU/gal [67% of gasoline BTU]
One US gallon of 10% Ethanol/Gasoline Blend (E10) = 111,300 BTU/gal [97% of gasoline BTU]
Adding 10% ethanol to gasoline requires burning 3% more fuel to accomplish the same task.

Ethanol blended gasoline requires buying more gallons of fuel in order to travel the same distance.
Highway fuels are taxed “by the gallon”, so governments collect more taxes with blended fuels.

Mandating the use of ethanol blended fuel is a disguise for a hike in gasoline taxes.


38 posted on 12/03/2012 5:40:34 AM PST by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: Nitehawk0325

Alas you’re wrong. I filled up this morning with the real stuff, 87 Octane, AND. . . .$3.25/gallon. . .


39 posted on 12/03/2012 5:47:23 AM PST by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: Nitehawk0325
Alas you're wrong. I filled up this morning with the real stuff, 87 Octane, AND. . . .$3.25/gallon. . .

http://pure-gas.org/station?station_id=7280

40 posted on 12/03/2012 5:48:16 AM PST by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: Salamander
You should see what *all* ethanol does to the guts of a Harley.

I miss leaded premium...

41 posted on 12/03/2012 5:51:37 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Salamander

Indeed. I only put Hi Test in my Harley, at great expense, i might add.


42 posted on 12/03/2012 5:55:20 AM PST by left that other site (Worry is the Darkroom that Develops Negatives.)
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To: neverdem

1. Ethanol is not as energy-rich a fuel as gasoline. When you dilute gasoline with ethanol, you get a poorer fuel.
2. Ethanol eventually separates from the gasoline, which causes the engine to fail. I talked to a repairman who works on outboard motors, who estimated that half his repairs are fuel-related, and that ethanol is most often the problem. If the ethanol content is raised to 15%, he thinks that outboard motors will have to go extinct, or run on propane. There were briefly diesel-powered outboard motors: very reliable, although expensive as an initial investment. They were made by the renowned Japanese company Yanmar. They are no longer available, partly because sales were banned in the US at the behest of Al Gore. They are legal in Canada, but no longer available there, and parts have vanished.
3. Ethanol costs more (in fossil fuels) to produce than the gasoline it supposedly saves. It is, simply put, a political swindle engineered by clueless environmentalists in unholy alliance with agricultural interests who should know better.
4. Ethanol uses up our invaluable soils, on which we (and future generations) depend on for food. So much for the cult of sustainability!
5. The bottom line is, if ethanol is so good, why can it not compete in a free market? Ethanol-diluted fuel is sold only because the alternative has been essentially banned. We are at the state where the federal government doesn’t much care if you smoke marijuana, but you cannot use the logical fuel in your automobile.
6. You could evade (I meant to say “avoid”) these regulations if you could get a supply of aviation gasoline, which contains no ethanol. So, one wonders, why have they not diluted aviation gasoline? The simple answer is that it would make the operation of engines for small aircraft unreliable, and shorten times between engine overhauls. I have never myself tried aviation fuel in a gasoline-powered car. Aviation fuel is relatively costly, but has no road tax.
7. Diesel is a good alternative. The latest diesel engines (on cars sold in the USA) are more expensive than gasoline engines, and have a complex additive system which is a costly nuisance. I suggest used diesel cars as a good alternative. When people realize this, good, old diesel cars will be worth restoring and keeping on the road. I myself have a 1996 Volkswagen Passat TDI. It shows signs of its age and is somewhat clunky, but is very reliable. Because it has manual transmission, it is less likely to be stolen (according to statistics). (Apparently many thieves cannot drive stick-shift cars.) It has low insurance costs. It does not need to be inspected, because here in NJ diesels 1996 and older cannot be checked, because the state does not have the proper instrumentation. The downside is that I am frequently pulled over because of the lack of a current inspection sticker. I carry a letter explaining the situation, and this gives me a chance to become acquainted with the friendly, local policemen.
In conclusion, ethanol-dilution of gasoline is a swindle, a scandal, and an outrage. Ethanol is a poor fuel for internal combustion engines. Ethanol is for drinking, or for use as a solvent; not as fuel for cars.


43 posted on 12/03/2012 6:02:17 AM PST by docbnj
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To: okie01

I set my MPG tracker on my car and compared results with a tank of E85 and a tank of 100% gas, I got similar results.

The savings in gas range easily trumps the lower cost of E85, 100% gas saves you money!


44 posted on 12/03/2012 6:04:12 AM PST by Brett66 (Where government advances, and it advances relentlessly , freedom is imperiled -Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: Brett66

This is typical of most “green energy” enviro-scams. There’s a lower price on the up-front costs, but it sneakily stabs you in the back with hidden costs.


45 posted on 12/03/2012 6:05:51 AM PST by Brett66 (Where government advances, and it advances relentlessly , freedom is imperiled -Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: thackney

My bad - I thought E-15 and E-85 were interchangeable.

I’d rather make a mistake and put E-15 in my car than that E-85 :>)


46 posted on 12/03/2012 6:07:22 AM PST by libertarian27 (Check my profile page for the FReeper Online Cookbook 2011)
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To: vette6387

I noticed the loss of mileage immediately and never bought ethanol again.


47 posted on 12/03/2012 6:14:26 AM PST by sarasota
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To: TYVets

Ironic because a few years ago I noticed a decreased MPG in my Taurus. I brought it in thinking I had a fuel leak. Guy laughed and said your decrease is in direct proportion to an increase in ethanol being used locally. Aggravated the heck out of me but from what I have been reading, it was the correct assessment.


48 posted on 12/03/2012 6:15:43 AM PST by Mouton (Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)
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To: okie01

Doesn’t it play back to Iowa corn crops?


49 posted on 12/03/2012 6:25:12 AM PST by sarasota
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To: Smokin' Joe

We do, too.

:(


50 posted on 12/03/2012 6:39:39 AM PST by Salamander (If animals could speak, mankind would weep.)
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