Obama and Israel: Carom Shot?

The Israeli press is reporting that “The United States was behind the summoning of Israeli ambassadors by several European nations, Israeli sources with close ties to US administration officials said Monday. ‘The European move is essentially an American move,’ one official said. ‘The Brits asked the Americans how to act.’” The same story quotes an Israeli official saying “The Europeans got the green light to respond with extreme measures . . .”

No proof is offered and proof in these circumstances will be hard to produce. But the story has a great deal of logic behind it. The Obama administration has denounced the Israeli decision to build several thousand additional housing units in Jerusalem and the West Bank. In my experience, when we distance ourselves from Israel the Europeans distance themselves more; when we criticize Israel, they double down and criticize more, and more harshly. Is there any sport that most European foreign ministries enjoy more than denouncing what they view as Israeli aggression, expansion, discrimination, persecution? If they perceive the dimmest green light from Washington, they are off to the races.

The White House will be more restrained, at least in public. In private, the real emotions about Prime Minister Netanyahu and the government of Israel emerge, as they did last weekend in widely reported remarks by Rahm Emanuel to the U.S.-Israel policy conference called the Saban Forum. (Yes, the mayor of Chicago is no longer White House chief of staff, but literally no one believes his remarks were distant from the opinions of his former boss.) One can just imagine what is being said to egg on the Europeans.

This last is surprising, in that a good many of the theorists that expanded and developed the International Communist movement were themselves Jews, though not religious practicing members of that community, but thoroughly secular. -- alloysteel, it would be better to call them of part Jewish origin as most were partly of Jewish origin, and all were atheists and/or initially belonging to other faiths before becoming atheists

The Nazi trolls who claim that Jews were leading lights in this are false and do not see the whole picture -- how Jews were persecuted before this and with the rise of nationalism saw communism as one path -- the other paths being integration and the other being migration to Israel and the last being "let's keep things the way they were"

If a Nazi troll reads this, they must see the entire picture

I see no point in denying this, just as much as I see no point in denying that there were blood thirsty communists of every ethnicity -- blaming one is provably historically inaccurate.

Yehuda -- I really don't see why we should not talk about the basics behind this instead of letting the neo-Nazis talk behind closed doors and give their one sided stories

Let me give you an example -- when I lived in the UK there were many who had pretty heavy duty anti-American sentiments who would not talk about it if they knew I was American

The best way to combat such ideas was not to hide the topic but to confront it head-on with the FACTS.

In most cases this stopped many cold in their tracks, in all cases, those around me changed their views or at least moderated their anti-Americanisms

I see the same with the anti-Semites. Most will hide and swap lies in the dark knowing that the topic is taboo and they never see the truth, never see both sides

We bring the story out and show all sides and show them that their lies or even worse half-truths are just "Half"

Take the example of Trotsky and the Rothschilds -- one can hear about these as "proof", yet one must also be shown the poverty in the shtetls, the facts that the % of Jews in the communist party while above their % in society as a whole was by no means a majority or even a dominating minority

Shine the light on the lies and show the whole truth to people who have only seen the half-truth and you will get less anti-Semites

This last is surprising, in that a good many of the theorists that expanded and developed the International Communist movement were themselves Jews, though not religious practicing members of that community, but thoroughly secular. This cadre probably worked as hard to place their fellow Jews and many times, blood relatives, as much under the Soviet yoke, as the most militant of Cossacks. But by running under such protective coloration, they could and did penetrate much further into other nations as “refugees”, including the United States, thus the great number of Russian Jews in this country who are predisposed to the spread and adoption of Communist rule.
No communist is religious. Or rather, communism as an atheist religion, one dedicated to destroying Judaism and Jewishness. Few American Jews supported communism. Few European Jews supported communism. Socialism is another matter. Socialism was well supported by poor European immigrants, as well as many progressive WASPs.

My statement was “I really don’t see why we should not talk about the basics behind this instead of letting the neo-Nazis talk behind closed doors and give their one sided stories”

As I've said before, I'm not Polish by ethnicity or by nationality, so your little attempts at barbs fail

however, your attitude is precisely what will feed anti-semitic attitudes when you post a lie about "hundreds of thousands" -- that exaggerated number is every bit a lit as the myth of Judeo-Bolshevism

Each time some one makes a "hundreds of thousands" statement, it causes people who have no feelings about the topic one way or the other get riled up and then build anti-s attitudes -- so if you want your argument, stick to the facts

After all, it appears to be in the polish blood to kill Jews, to help nazis, and to work with communists. -- congratulations, Yehuda, you've right now caused every person of Polish blood to get the impression that you are blaming them for everything.

do you realise that with statements like that you are building anti-semitism?

you want to keep doing that, go ahead

I seek to point out the lies in blaming Jews for communism and you are getting hysterical and seeking to build up anti-semitism instead of demolishing it by shining the light of the truth on it?

Read rmlew's statement Socialism was well supported by poor European immigrants and this is a clear indicator of why Eastern European Jews AND Poles AND Ukrainians etc. supported socialism -- the history behind this is clear -- Eastern Europe was under the crushing autocracy of the Tsars and the "Socialism" of the 1800s was not the "socialism" that we see today, but more a reaction against autocracy

Let's see the difference in my post, alloysteels and yours:

alloysteel But there were legions who broke out of the constraints of the societies into which they were born, and managed, by sheer dint of will, to enter and excel at many professions and busimess enterprises, eventually becoming the “bankers of Europe”,....Because of these banking houses, “money-grubbing Jew banker” became the stereotype for ALL Judaism, whether the simple common Jew was part of it or not. and This last is surprising, in that a good many of the theorists that expanded and developed the International Communist movement were themselves Jews, though not religious practicing members of that community, but thoroughly secular.

Both statements are factual -- Jews were forced into banking as they could not own land and were forbidden from much trades. He is also giving the historical facts behind why they were FORCED into what they were later stereotyped for

and my post saying The Nazi trolls who claim that Jews were leading lights in this are false and do not see the whole picture -- how Jews were persecuted before this and with the rise of nationalism saw communism as one path and Take the example of Trotsky and the Rothschilds -- one can hear about these as "proof", yet one must also be shown the poverty in the shtetls, the facts that the % of Jews in the communist party while above their % in society as a whole was by no means a majority or even a dominating minority

Shine the light on the lies and show the whole truth to people who have only seen the half-truth and you will get less anti-Semites

and let's see your statement it appears to be in the polish blood to kill Jews, to help nazis, and to work with communists. --

What is this, a kind of reverse blood libel?

I see this as just a stupid way of creating or increasing anti-semitic feeling. It's like you are telling every person of Polish blood that you consider them genetically criminal. Your post is then going to build up a counter-reaction and then another build-up on both sides

Quit it -- you want to talk about the facts of Polish anti-semitism, let's do that, where are your facts for your "hundreds of thousands"? where is your proof for "it's in polish blood to kill Jews, help nazis"?

Are you saying that the Poles inviting Jews to live among them for 500 years is false? Are you seriously trying to build up anti-semitism?

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