Posted on 12/10/2012 7:56:08 AM PST by Kaslin
I was shocked by something I heard from one of my friend’s sons the other day. He is a college graduate with a business degree and fortunately has a job. We were all talking about the fiscal cliff and how it would affect people making over $250K a year. His reaction to the top rate rising to 39% along with the California State tax increase due to Proposition 30 prompted him to say, “Whew, I think I dodged a bullet! I was up for a promotion with a pay raise but someone else got it. I’m pretty sure my taxable income will be under the level where I would have gotten punished.” PUNISHED.
He was basically saying that he would rather earn less and stop advancing in his career than be hit with massive taxes. I asked him to explain and he said that basically he didn’t want to work and then fork over 50% or more of his earnings to the government. He said that he had gone to school, studied hard and gotten a job but was still burdened with excessive student loans and he felt that with that hanging over his head he couldn’t afford to pay more in taxes.
As for buying a home and starting a family, well that was not even an option for him. He said that if they were talking about taking away the mortgage home deduction then why buy a house anyway?
This is where we have come in this country. It is now a better option to take a lower paying job, rent a home or live with mom and take government benefits than it is to climb up the ladder to success. The American dream is fading folks. Like an old photograph from a Polaroid instant camera, the picture is slowly disintegrating.
Our entitlement society is out of control. It is a sad fact that a head of a household of four making minimum wage has more disposable income than a family making $60,000 a year. In an article in August 2010 this issue was discussed in The National Review.
“In many cases, economists have calculated, welfare recipients who enter the work force or receive pay raises lose a dollar or more of benefits for each additional dollar they earn. The system makes fools of those who work hard.
“Recently the chairmen of two important subcommittees on Capitol Hill convened a hearing on this issue. The hearing elicited some revealing testimony from one of the chairmen’s congressional colleagues.”
“The more benefits the government provides, the stronger the disincentive to work,” Representative Geoff Davis (R., Ky.) pointed out. The great irony, he added, is that although federal welfare programs “are designed to alleviate poverty while promoting work,” collectively they have “an unintended side effect of discouraging harder work and higher earnings.”
Less work and lower earnings, in turn, translate into greater dependency on the government — and zero or even downward social and economic mobility for those mired in poverty.”
Working women who are single with children often forego a raise because it would push them into the dilemma of losing Title 20 daycare if they made more money. There are over 70 Federal welfare programs right now and the list will continue to grow under Obama. If a person works and climbs the ladder, they will become disqualified for these programs and lose all of the benefits that they have become so accustomed to.
This creates a moral dilemma. When good people continue to stay on unemployment because taking a job would not pay them as much as their benefit, how can you really blame them? We don’t live in a culture where people are embarrassed to ask for a handout. It is so easy just to file for benefits by computer, have the funds deposited directly into your bank account or take your EBT credit card to buy anything you want. There is no shame in taking government assistance, you are entitled to it.
“Today, more people than ever before—67.3 million Americans, from college students to retirees to welfare beneficiaries—depend on the federal government for housing, food, income, student aid, or other assistance once considered to be the responsibility of individuals, families, neighborhoods, churches, and other civil society institutions. The United States reached another milestone in 2010: For the first time in history, half the population pays no federal income taxes.” - National Review
So the tipping point has been reached and now the government is scrambling to grab any and all money that working people make just to pay these entitlements. Unfortunately, the American people are waking up and becoming more like the young man I talked to. They are seeing that their hard work and effort is not benefiting their own families, but being redistributed to others; some who need it and others who just don’t bother to work. Look at the major companies that are paying out dividends before the huge taxes kick in. They can see the writing on the wall and are preparing for it.
The young already know that they will probably never see social security or Medicare benefits in their lifetime yet they see it withdrawn from their checks every week. They are the ones sensing the “unfairness” of all of this, not the people reaping the benefits.
This is NOT America, this is not who we are as a country. If we don’t stop punishing success and achievement, future American generations (if there are any) will be content to sit at home and count their government goodies but will never excel at anything, never strive to be anything. There will be no incentive to achieve success. Why should you? It will just be taken away.
Once the so-called “rich” have been drained dry the only option left for the government will be to just keep printing money. That lasts until the economy collapses in on itself and by that time the country we knew will be just like that fading Polaroid, a memory.
Morgan Brittany
Politichicks.tv
@Morganbrittany4
My point was that if he seriously considered himself lucky, he'd made the author's point.
I know you like to be argumentative, but you do know that this nation got along quite well without any Federal income tax for a long time. Then, when the Federal income tax was introduced we were promised it would only be imposed on the top 2% of wage earners.
How's THAT working out for ya'?
I did what your Dad did. I took early retirement and didn’t work a year because of taxes and the inability to shelter basically a year’s plus salary.
Then, I became an independent contractor/consultant, and made good money. However, due to the taxes including both sides of my FICA, I was clearing about 48%. My wife came up with the concept of depositing every other check into a money fund to pay my quarterly taxes.
Part of my retirement plan/pay was I got my estimated SS pay early until I turned 62. Then, I lost that monthly payment and actually went on SS at age 62.
Our cpa was an anti tax hawk, and she told my wife and I that if I continued to consult, with the penalties re levels of income and FICA pay, we would be really penalty/taxed with my pension, fica, my wife’ income other incomes.
My wife wasn’t ready to retire, and our CPA told her that if both of us worked and got paid at the same level, it would be like having her ride in the back of my pickup and throwing money away.
So for the first year, I only worked to the level before getting penalized by SS.
About halfway through that first year, we decided to that I would stop the consulting as the air travel had gotten hard to take and we didn’t need the income.
In the meantime, my CPA said to enjoy the time off and to study hard to become my own financial advisor for my wife and I.
So I stopped consulting and became our financial advisor, which has worked so far.
My wife opted for more vacation time and a 3 day week at her work.
When she turned 70.5, she went to working one day a week as she had to start taking withdrawals from her iras. This is/was a hard concept/adjustment for most of us. Instead of maxing out payments to your IRA or 401k, you have to start withdrawing on a regular basis.
So, we in your words of wisdom have been kinda going Galt for awhile, and now we are see our capable younger relatives/friends doing the same thing.
“This is the kind of “Going Galt” that I’ve been seeing (heck, I’ve been DOING) for a number of years. Lots of people not completely off the rails like in Rand’s novel ....but only pulling along at about 50% of their capacity. “
“Is this really why a bunch of people oppose the Bush tax cuts expiration, because they think they will take less home if they take a raise and get pushed into the >$250,000 tax bracket? Because if it is then you are wrong.”
I forgot I was dealing with a moron.
Ya think some company in todays America is going to give ya a 25% raise, and not assume ownership of you and make ya dance on the head of a pin on a daily basis?
I have found that to be the case in the majority of my dealings with people making more than $200k/yr.
I heard a guy on a Boston talk radio show the other day.
The man is a contractor, and he got fed up paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes. He started to do some business under the table, for cash. I’m assuming he doesn’t declare that income. It was his way of rebelling. If he gets caught, then he has another set of problems.
It's a difference without distinction. In either event I have someone taking money that I have earned and giving me back almost nothing. Taxes are theft (so I guess they'd be closer to punishment)
Oh, I know they are. Heck, if they deign to pay you minimum wage they assume ownership of you and make you dance on the head of a pin on a daily basis.
This is 2012, things have changed.
Guess what we’ve learned in our family? Preemie babies are Medicaid babies...even when you have good insurance. They have two years of care that is unbelievable- including private nurses at your home who can only take care of one baby so if twins, you get two nurses. There are therapists galore and then a visitor each week who brings supplies. This is what insurance company lobbyists and government employees have negotiated for the others of us. Many of the formulas and drugs are so costly that WIF pays for those.
I can count on more than one hand people who cheat the system by marrying across state lines to avoid giving up benefits from one state (disability), divorcing to get and keep benefits, a fake disability, hoveraround wheelchairs for those who can walk but a retirement home doctor gets a nice cut when he writes the prescription (and, my senator cannot tell me if we get these back and refurbished or if the family gets to sell them on ebay), preemie babies with full care, those who look for work and vacation when they are on unemployment, altering hours you work to try for extra grant money, limit your credit cards and then claim bankruptcy, get health insurance when you know something big is wrong, get appliance insurance when you know something big is about to go out, etc. The tragic list goes on and on. 2Corinthians 7:14 is a joke in America but we want God to Bless America!
Some things have changed. I suspect the Congressional game of introducing something as applying only "to the rich" and then having it apply to all is still the same. And if you DON'T think that was the plan with Obama's call to raise taxes "only on the top 2 brackets" I have a bridge for sale that might interest you.
I don't know, someone making hundreds of thousands of $$ a year has way more options to fix his situation than the minimum wage Amazon warehouse stocker.
Well, that is a fair point. Every man has his price.
I doubt that my skillset would command a salary high enough for me to make that trade-off again, though.
If you'll indulge me in a little history.... Long ago, I had a job where I was a real road warrior. Travelled near 100% of the time. Mostly was on both coasts - NYC and SF. Pay was excellent, and the fact that I was on the company nickel all the time meant that my personal expenses were pretty danged low.
The tradeoff? Weeks at a stretch without being home, and 80-100 hour weeks even if I was around. My health was ruined. I had ulcers and high blood pressure. Nearly cost me my marriage.
The wake up call? Mrs WBill wanted to have kids. We tried (when I was around) for a good while...nada. I went to the doc to make sure that everything was, erm, "functioning properly". Everything checked out OK but before I left, the doc said - kind of tongue in cheek, half serious, half joking - "You know, if you want to have kids, generally you need to be around your wife in order for that to happen."
Talk about a wake up call. I had a new job in six months, kids not long after that. New job was for a lot (a whole lot!!) less money, but included less hours, less travel, less stress. Also less high blood pressure (immediately went back to normal) and less ulcers (I'm not drinking Maalox straight from the bottle anymore :-) )
Mrs WBill and I have trimmed most of the fat out of our budget. We don't go out to eat, hardly ever. Vacations are rare. Up until just recently (I got an offer that I couldn't refuse) I drove a 10+ year old car with 150,000+ miles on it. Mrs WBill clips coupons and shops consignment sales. We squeeze every bit out of every penny that I make.
But, other than cutting out the "Fluff"...my lifestyle is much, much better than when I was making more money. So, having seen both sides of the coin, that delta where I pay 40 or 50 or more percent in taxes for every dollar I earn, has got to be awfully big in order to make it worth my while.
End of story, thanks for listening. :-)
That's a good story, and I congratulate you for making what I believe was a wise but difficult choice.
So the reason you don't try for more money has nothing to do with income tax policy, which was my point. In order to be part of the original discussion on this thread, you'd have had to make the point that it was only the lack of value of money for time that would keep you from taking the raise, not the impact of new responsibilities on your lifestyle.
“Rational man theory” only applies to rational people, not Obama voters.
I also don’t see the point of working to grow the gubmint so they can steal more $.
But the reality is, today, instead of raises, many employers will offer all kinds of worthless incentives, commissions and prizes in lieu of an actual raise. It's a con job. Either way they're screwed.
Sounds like he made a rational choice. I may disagree with him, but I can see why he did that.
It's been awhile, but my dad cleared 40% at his margin, if memory serves. Being an independent and paying both sides of FICA is a real backbreaker, for sure.
Otherwise, you and he could have been interchangeable.
I just got off the phone with him. He and my youngest (who goes to visit at least a couple of times a week) are playing "Matchbox cars and Green Army Men". Sounds like a far better way to pass the time to me, than sitting in a cubicle farm somewhere spitting out code.
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