Posted on 05/21/2013 6:58:39 AM PDT by Biggirl
MOORE, Okla. (CBS Houston/AP) — Search and rescue crews worked through the night after a monstrous tornado barreled through the Oklahoma City suburbs, demolishing an elementary school and reducing homes to piles of splintered wood. At least 24 people were killed and and that number is expected to climb, officials said Tuesday.
(Excerpt) Read more at houston.cbslocal.com ...
Yeah, I saw your post 27 about that. I hope this is a rumour and not true.
We know a couple at our church who tried to get their children out. The father went to the school 25 minutes early, but the school wouldn’t let him take their child. The mother and their three other children were at home in their private storm shelter. The father went into the class and sheltered with their child in the classroom. Both survived without injuries. Other families in our church have lost their homes, but no deaths or injuries reported. Thank God! Communication is limited, but we have internet/Facebook.
Amen! Does anyone think those children wouldn’t have felt safer with their parents? Were they crying for their teachers, or their mothers? If they were doomed anyway by the tornado’s path, better they would have been in their homes. I can’t imagine being their parents now. The school year is over, there should have been NO SCHOOL in light of the forecast from the night before for more tornados. Poor babies, poor parents. Those children might not have been safer in their homes,but every one of them wished they were. Just pray for them all, and pray that they learn from this and it never happens again.
***And showbiz “progressives” will mock the victims because they’re not from Vermont...or California...or Maryland but...GASP...OKLAHOMA!****
I remember the OKC bombing. The Eastern newscasters progressives began to wring their hands over the belief that those high-plains “rubes and rednecks and Okies” of Flyover Country could not deal with such a disaster!
They were shocked, SHOCKED! with the quick response of rescue teams because of their constant training for tornado disasters.
Moving during these storms is the exact opposite of what is recommended, seek shelter immediately is always the recommended course. Any shelter is far better than being caught in the open or in a vehicle. As you can see form the graphic above Tornadoes shift paths to some degree. Even with 15 minutes moving a large mass of people would never get them all out of the way in time, and the loss could have been worse. Even one full school bus picked up by the winds. Now if parents were there an hour or so before they should have been given their kids, but in the minutes leading up to the actual strike that too would have been an indeed distraction and a risk.
My daughter’s elementary school has over 400 children. My son’s high school has 3000 students. Since these in ground shelters can hold about 12-14 students, where do you propose to put 40 to 200 of these 6’x3’ rectangles? You would need a football field and unfortunately, most schools don’t have the space.
Mistakes are always going to be made in pressure situations like this. We learned a lot after the May 3rd, 1999 tornado that has saved hundreds of lives since and probably saved hundreds of lives yesterday. Hopefully, we learn more from this, that will continue to minimize the risk associated with living in OK this time of year. It’s just that today is not the day for armchair qb’s. Emotions are too high to be reasonable and constructive.
I grew up in Oklahoma - of course, this was 50 years ago. Everyone had storm shelters. I can remember riding with my Dad as he drove between churches (he preached at one in the morning and another in the afternoon because he had 7 churches) and spotting a funnel cloud. Dad, who loved storms, decided to give chase, which was fun for awhile. Then the funnel turned and we pulled into a farm just in time to join the family in the storm cellar. The thing sucked on the storm door so hard that both the farmer and Dad had to hold it. Oddly enough it missed the barn where the vehicles were parked, but took off one side of the farmhouse. We headed back to the main church because it was home to the Disaster Relief Van and we knew we would need to get it on the road.
I remember a safe room in our school. It was especially built as a storm shelter and would hold the school population. We drilled going there and the teachers would calmly teach right up until the sirens sounded and we’d march off. I understand leaky basements, I just don’t understand the lack of safe rooms.
Stop trying to second guess and arm chair quarterback. The people of Oklahoma are probably the most weather savvy people in the country. The National Tornado Center is probably 5 miles from Moore and they still had only 15 minutes notice.
It is much easier to reevaluate upward than downward, so the initial estimate will be low if there is any doubt. Just imagine trying to convince the media that it was only an EF4 after an initial estimate of EF5.
I looked through the documents which detail what level of damage match each EF level (a real snoozefest) and it was very detailed about how to analyze damage and what types of destruction match what level and how to do statistical analysis on the damage so that one freak collapsing building won't bias the estimate. The EF level is based on the damage (and therefore indirectly wind speed), not the width or the length of time on the ground so you can have a very small, short lived EF5 tornado or a large, long lasting but weak EF1 tornado. This one was big, long lasting and strong, but the first two don't control the EF level.
WHAT?? Parents TRIED to get their kids out of school and the school wouldn’t LET them go? PLEASE tell me I read that wrong.
She said she was just asking questions.
The school's believe they have authority over parents - and with good reason. The state has the authority to prosecute parents who interfere with the school, and the state can (and does) take children away from parents.
This isn't just an ethereal notion: there are court precedents and police records to back up the ugly truth that parents are on the losing end.
The Master - Servant relationship has been turned on its head. The government was meant to serve the people, not the other way around.
Yeah. They should have just shut down early. Hindsight is 20/20, but storm tracking is very, very accurate in Oklahoma City. They knew the conditions were perfect well in advance. I’m talking hours.
One could argue children are generally safer in the schools, but I still maintain parents should have the final decision on that. If a parent goes to a school in advance (as many did), that parent should be able to take control over their child. My daughter picked up our grandson early, and their school (not destroyed) allowed it, but all of the schools should have shut down early.
Oklahoma knew May 20 had the potential for very severe weather. There are certain conditions that make these huge tornadoes possible, and the weather reporting here is superb. Everyone had the opportunity to know what was happening. Storm trackers and weather radar had the tornado’s location pinpointed. I’m talking about down to a one mile square area.
My grandmother had an old cellar like that and it had windows and a vertical door. A tornado like this would have obliterated it, sending debris down into the cellar. Residential neighborhoods like these don’t have room for these types of storm shelters anymore.
Actually, there has been an exponential increase in the number of in ground shelters (in the garage) and safe rooms since the 1999 tornado. The state has even given tax breaks for installing the in ground shelters over the last several years. We are already hearing about hundreds of survivors that rode out the storm in one of these shelters and I bet there will be thousands more installed after this. Unfortunately, they aren’t practical for schools.
And, I answered.
I am wondering that myself. Heard two conflicting news reports on TV.
Both do agree that the school pancaked on top of the children, trapping them.
One report then stated that the trapped children drowned in puddles of water from rain that came with the tornado.
The other report stated that the water pipes in the school burst, drowning the trapped children.
FYI: If the drownings occurred due to burst pipes, ya'd think it woulda been prudent for maintenance to shut off the water at the main valve prior to the tornado hit ...
RDdB: “They were shocked, SHOCKED! with the quick response of rescue teams because of their constant training for tornado disasters.”
Yeah. The loss of life is terrible but property can be rebuilt. We cooperate here and don’t generally look to government to solve our problems. You’re talking about mostly God fearing conservatives here.
I agree we have more important issues than what kinds of shelters should be built in the schools. This is a learning experience. True. However, it’s possible to engineer structures that can survive direct hits from F-5 tornadoes. We will need to have a discussion at some point about rebuilding and what can be done to make the children even safer.
Very good points.
I am wondering though.... Since the day before there were tornadoes in the area, and the weather forecasters predicted similar conditions in the area, should that not play into any decisions made? I’m not criticizing, I am asking and wondering out loud.
I have dealt with schools who refuse to close under extremely dangerous conditions because they simply don’t want to make up days at the end of the year. Even when many students’ homes were under mandatory evacuation for a hurricane, they refused to close the school.
This is why I don’t always trust protocol. However, last minute in imminent danger decisions are difficult to judge unless you’re in their shoes. But when there is reasonable notice that a tornado is very likely (24 hours?), it’s better to make decisions then, rather than put yourself in the position to have to make an imminent danger decision.
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