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Medicinal marijuana stops seizures, brings hope to a little Black Forest girl
The Gazette (CO) ^ | June 9, 2013 | Barb Cotter

Posted on 06/09/2013 7:05:03 PM PDT by neverdem

Photosview all photos

Photo - 6-year-old Charlotte Figi takes 120 mg of CBD 2 times per day. The CBD is extracted from the plant and mixed with olive oil. Photo by Nichole Montanez, The Gazette Photo - 6-year-old Charlotte Figi sits with her mother, Paige Figi at their Black Forest home Monday, May 20, 2013 Photo by Nichole Montanez, The Gazette Photo - 6-year-old Charlotte Figi uses her "talker" at speech therapy Friday, May 17, 2013 Photo by Nichole Montanez, The Gazette Photo - Charlotte Figi looks out the window of her Black Forest home Monday, May 20, 2013 Photo by Nichole Montanez, The Gazette Photo -  Charlotte Figi plays in her Black Forest home Monday, May 20, 2013 Photo by Nichole Montanez, The Gazette Photo - Charlotte Figi scoops dirt from the medical marijuana plant that was named for her. Charlotte suffers from Dravet Syndrome and is using MMJ to control her seizures. Monday, May 27, 2013 Photo by Nichole Montanez, The Gazette

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Six-year-old Charlotte Figi, a picture of precious in her "Gatsby"-style bob and blue toenails, stands patiently as her mother reaches up her dress to change her out of her soiled Pull-Ups. - Charlotte never says a word. She hasn't in the past hour, and won't for at least another 30 minutes, when she finally whispers the name of a visitor who is about to leave.

In the Figi household, these are signs of progress: Charlotte saying something. Charlotte eating and drinking. Charlotte standing and walking.

Charlotte breathing.

About 18 months ago, in the winter of 2011, Paige and Matt Figi signed a "do not resuscitate" order telling medical personnel to forgo life-saving measures for their daughter and let fate take its course.

They'd done all they could to control the seemingly endless, violent seizures that hit Charlotte 20, 40, 60 times a day. They put her on an extreme diet. They tried at least a dozen medications, many with harmful side effects. Despite some promising starts, nothing worked. And the rescue medications they were giving her to stop the seizures in fact stopped her breathing. CPR brought her back to life more than once.

After years of watching a cruel, incurable genetic disorder called Dravet Syndome rob their daughter of her basic bodily functions and send her into convulsions that caused head injuries and broken teeth, they had reached the end.

"We really thought, this is a horrible existence; she's not going to live much longer." Paige says. "This is not a life for her. This is torture. She is suffering all day. I'm not OK with this. She wasn't even human anymore. She'd lie in my arms drooling, seizing, screaming and crying."

Then, in an act of desperation, or inspiration - or maybe both - Matt called Paige from overseas, where he was working, and suggested a radical approach to Charlotte's treatment.

"We need to try cannabis for Charlotte," he told Paige. "We live in a compassionate state."

Fifteen months later, the little girl with the DNR order is standing in the kitchen of their Black Forest home with her mother getting her Pull-Ups changed, cuddling in the arms of a visitor, playing with toys and strategically pushing the buttons on her "talker," an electronic device that communicates when Charlotte can't.

Her seizures have dropped from 1,200 a month to three, and the ones she has are shorter in duration and less severe. She's off all the other medications with their troubling side effects. And, as one of the youngest medical marijuana patients in Colorado, her dramatic turnaround is starting to draw national attention, with a CNN report on the horizon.

"Charlotte, when I first saw her more than a year ago, she was listless, really lying in her mother's arms. She did not speak, she could not walk," says Dr. Alan Shackelford of Denver, one of the two doctors who recommended medical marijuana for her. "And when I compare that child to the little girl who bounded into my office when I last saw her, and laughed and danced, it was a different human being who was there."

To Paige, there is no other explanation for the stunning reversal in Charlotte's condition than the marijuana.

"That plant is worth everything to me," Paige says.

Dozens of pediatric patients using 'Charlotte's Web' marijuana

"That plant" is a special strain of marijuana, cultivated at a Teller County grow business owned by six brothers who have been featured on the National Geographic Channel show "American Weed." The Stanley brothers breed the marijuana so it's super low in THC, the psychoactive component of pot that gets people high, but full of cannabidiol, or CBD, a component believed to be a key to the medicinal properties of marijuana.

The brothers named their low-THC, high-CBD strain "Charlotte's Web," a tribute to the success of their first pediatric patient.

"In six years, this is the only thing that has given us this type of success with no side effects," Paige says.

Charlotte doesn't smoke her medicine. The Stanley brothers harvest the plant, extract its cannabidoils, then have it lab-tested to confirm its THC and CBD levels. Then they mix the CBD into an olive oil solution, and Paige gives it to Charlotte two times a day, squirting a measured amount under her tongue with a syringe.

Since starting with Charlotte, the Stanleys have added about 40 more pediatric epileptic patients to their list of Charlotte's Web recipients, giving each a tailor-made tincture for just pennies.

"All of them responded well," says Joel Stanley. "Out of nearly 40, only one didn't see such a success that they weren't weaned from pharmaceutical medications, but the others are all off entirely, or are weaning off of them."

Despite Charlotte's turnaround, Paige, the Stanley brothers and Shackelford have one major frustration: No one who lives outside Colorado can get Charlotte's Web because of federal drug laws.

"I have phone calls from desperate parents in Georgia, Indiana, Norway, Sweden, a number of states in the U.S., from parents of children with severe, intractable seizure disorders who have basically run out of options," says Shackelford, who graduated from the University of Heidleburg in Germany and did his post-graduate medical training at Harvard. "They don't know where to turn now. They desperately want to be able to use marijuana to treat their children's seizures. 'How can I get it? Can you mail it?' Of course, all of that is impossible. It's highly illegal. It's frustrating."

'End of the line for medications'

Dravet Syndrome is the most severe form of a rare group of epilepsies tied to a mutation of the SCN1A gene. It typically starts in infancy, with seizures that seem to go on forever. Around age 2, Dravet patients start getting other types of seizures and regressing in their development, losing skills such as walking and talking.

Paige knows all that now, but she and her husband were in the dark when Charlotte - one half of a set of fraternal twins - had her first seizure in 2007 at the age of 3 months. She'd just had a bath, and her dad was changing her diaper.

"She was blue; she was seizing," Paige recalls.

Charlotte was taken to the ER, where she was intubated, but tests revealed nothing. Two weeks later, she had another "status" seizure, a term for one that lasts longer than 30 minutes. It was back to the ER, where doctors wanted to put her on medication. The Figis resisted and tried a few other things, but nothing worked. Every two weeks, always in the late morning, Charlotte would have another status seizure, including one that lasted four hours.

When Charlotte was 6 months old, the Figis put her on prescription medication, but figured it would be a short-term treatment. Doctors said Charlotte would likely grow out of the seizures.

"Everyone thought they were just going to go away, because she was progressing normally. She was a happy, normal kid," says Paige.

But the seizures continued, and the rescue medications used to stifle them also made Charlotte to stop breathing.

Then, at age 2 - right on target - the other types of seizures kicked in. To make matters worse, the Figis realized that while Charlotte's twin, Chase, was tooling along just fine on her developmental path, Charlotte was losing her ability to walk and talk, eat and drink. Paige had to use a syringe to get water into her mouth, and nurse her for sustenance - the only self-feeding Charlotte could still do.

"We started realizing that she wasn't just losing skills because she had a two-hour seizure," Paige recalls. "She had brain damage."

In her research, Paige learned about Dravet, but wasn't sure Charlotte had it. A trip to Chicago with Charlotte to see a specialist confirmed what Paige suspected.

"I think it was probably one of the worst answers, but I was relieved: We know what to work with."

Paige pushed for Charlotte to get the appropriate medications, and insisted on putting her on a strict high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet that required Paige to precisely weigh and measure foods and keep an Excel spreadsheet of data.

"So a meal would be like mayonnaise and oil, and a slice of grape and a hot dog," Paige says.

For awhile, the diet controlled the seizures, and Charlotte was even able to go drug-free for about three months. But there was a cost. The diet put Charlotte's body into an acidic state that caused bone loss and made her osteopenic. She was riddled with respiratory infections, ear infections, bladder infections.

And then, the seizures returned with a vengeance when Charlotte was 5. Adjusting the diet didn't work. The drug she'd been taking didn't work, even when doctors doubled the recommended dose. She was having 1,200 grand mal seizures a month, plus innumerable other types of seizures. Rescue meds were not an option.

"The doctor said, 'we've nearly reached the end of the line for medications," Paige says.

Charlotte was given some last-resort drugs, but those were hard on her liver, and they didn't stop the seizures.

It was about that time that Matt suggested medical marijuana.

Seizure-free with first dose of marijuana

Paige knew little about medical marijuana, and wasn't in the mood to learn more. She was essentially a single parent to Charlotte, Chase and son Max while Matt was overseas, and she was exhausted. She told him she didn't have time to battle the social stigma and line up the two doctors she needed to recommend marijuana for their daughter.

"It was like a mountain I didn't have the time or energy to climb," she says.

She wanted to wait for Matt to come home, but then "things got so scary, I decided it wasn't a choice."

Paige called every dispensary and grower she could find. She called doctors friendly to medical marijuana, but few wanted to take a chance treating a 5-year-old when there is little science behind its use on children. Only 35 of the 108,483 medical marijuana cardholders in Colorado are minors, and just five are under 10 years old.

"People were terrified to treat her," Paige says. "I kept pushing. I called everyone and said, 'Give me five more contacts.' I wouldn't get off the phone until they gave me more. And I eventually found what I was looking for: I found two doctors to sign for her and agree to treat her."

One was Dr. Margaret Gedde, a Stanford-educated doctor with a practice in Colorado Springs. The other was Shackelford.

Shackelford is an advocate of the medical properties of marijuana, and his knowledge of the topic is encyclopedic. Still, he says, he didn't blithely recommend it for Charlotte.

"When you ask, did I have any reluctance: Yes, clearly," he says. "In medicine - and I think this is important to mention - we physicians have to weigh potential benefits against potential risks. But we really don't know a lot about the effects of cannabis on children."

So he looked at Charlotte's case history, talked to her neurologist at Colorado Children's Hospital in Aurora. The prescription medications were apparently doing more harm than good. In doing his usual risk-benefit analysis of recommending any treatment, he fell on the side of marijuana.

"She'd had cardiac arrest, using the medications that had been prescribed for her to interrupt intractable seizures," Shackelford says. "In her case, it seemed worth a try."

Paige found a dispensary that sold a high-CBD, low-THC product. And it was lab-tested to gauge levels of CBC, THC, toxins and pesticides. She liked that.

"Most medical marijuana is not tested," she says.

That day, she bought $800 worth of cannabis, had a friend extract the CBD and mix it in olive oil, then had it retested at the lab.

In February 2012, Charlotte received her first dose of marijuana as the olive oil was placed under her tongue.

"She had seven days seizure-free, on just that first time." Paige says. "I was giving it to her three times a day. I was very scientific and methodical, and very conservative."

The seizures showed up again, and Paige increased the dose. It helped, but the marijuana was expensive. About two months after starting Charlotte on marijuana, she got a call from one of the people she had contacted a few months earlier in her frantic search for help.

"You really need to meet Joel Stanley," the contact told her.

Marijuana growers breed out THC

Coincidentally, the Stanleys had been working on a project to breed the psychoactive component of marijuana - THC - out of the plant to see how effective CBD might be without it. They weren't focusing on pediatric patients, but had read research that showed CBD's promise in treating medical problems that included muscle spasticity and cancer.

"There was a real good reason to be pursuing not just THC, but also CBD," Joel Stanley said, whose business also grows marijuana with higher levels of THC.

Paige contacted him, and liked him immediately.

"He's not a recreational user," she says. "He's very intelligent. He knew all the science behind it. He's the first person I met who knew what I was looking for."

The Stanleys began growing more of the plant, which tests at about 20 percent CBD and 0.5 percent THC - apparently the highest CBD marijuana in the world, Stanley believes.

In April 2012, the Stanleys also started the nonprofit Realm of Caring to promote medical marijuana research and make their products more accessible, especially to people who can't afford it. Now, low-THC, high-CBD marijuana makes up about 75 percent of the Stanleys' crop.

"We're not pharmacists," says Stanley, who graduated from Colorado Springs Christian Schools and started growing medical marijuana as a business venture with five of his brothers. "We don't have medical backgrounds, but we do work with more than 10 doctors on a regular basis for tracking and to understand what is happening. It is legitimate and viable in every way."

Paige began getting Charlotte's medication through the Realm of Caring network the same month it started, and she's become a convert to marijuana's power over Dravet. Charlotte is no longer on prescription medications, and the strain named after her has had no apparent side effects.

"The drugs that ever worked for her, the dose was so high. It was toxic on the liver," Paige says. "You might see some seizure control for some time, but she can't move, or walk or talk. It's amazing to me that this, with no negative side effects, is working."

Federal law means no clinical research

Paige, Stanley and Shackelford would love to see other children afflicted with Dravet or other pediatric epileptic disorders have access to Charlotte's Web.

But federal drug laws make it impossible, so desperate parents have been moving to Colorado - a pioneer state in the use of medical marijuana and where recreational marijuana use is now legal - to establish residency and get treatment for their sick kids.

"We have some people who have uprooted everything they know to move to Colorado, but not everyone can do that," Stanley says. "We get phone calls every day from people who are crying, asking if there is possibly any legal way to get this to them where they're at. They're at the end of their pharmaceutical rope."

Federal law categorizes marijuana as a Schedule I controlled substance, in the same category as heroin, LSD and methaqualone - substances deemed to have no acceptable medical use and a high potential for abuse. This bars any possibility of distributing Charlotte's Web beyond state lines, makes it nearly impossible for it to be tested in the type of large-scale clinical research that brings traditional prescription drugs to market, and even hampers a thorough understanding of how medical marijuana reduces seizures.

"It's kind of sad, but right now, when it comes to clinical trials and FDA-approved studies in the U.S., the government is not in a place where it's going to allow that to happen," Stanley says. "That's very frustrating. We wish we could grow it in the fields like we grow corn, and if we could, we could supply it to everybody who needs it."

So they have to rely on their own testing.

"It's not through an FDA-approved program, but does that make it less legitimate?" Stanley says. "We're doing everything we can scientifically to understand what this is, what it's doing, and every last compound in our medicine."

Catherine Jacobson, a Stanford University researcher and mother of a severely epileptic son, teamed with Brenda Porter on a small study of parents whose children are being treated with Charlotte's Web. According to their unpublished findings, 84 percent of the 19 parents who responded reported a reduction in the frequency of their children's seizures. More objective testing is needed, they conclude, but Jacobson would be willing to try Charlotte's Web now.

"While I think the drug might help my son, I don't have access to it here in California. So he continues to seize uncontrollably," she says in an email. "This is why Charlotte and all the other kids in Colorado are so lucky. No one else has access to that and these children continue to suffer despite there being a possible solution for them."

Life much calmer for the Figis now

Charlotte will always have Dravet, and with little in-depth research behind Charlottes' Web, there's no way to tell whether it will be effective in the long run, or what, if any, issues it may cause.

"That's why we're pushing for studies," Paige says.

But given how Charlotte was doing before, Paige and Matt Figi took the risk, and they're ecstatic with what the plant has done for their child and the other kids who are taking it. And Paige will take on anyone who raises an eyebrow about this unconventional treatment.

"Look, it's just factual what's happening with her," Paige says. "This is a working therapy. She's eating, drinking, sleeping all night - that's unheard of with these kids."

Charlotte's autism-like symptoms, most likely from the prescriptions she took, also have cleared.

"She used to just slam her head against the glass, rip her fingernails off, like there was pain inside of her," Paige says. "Now, she's just calm."

In fact, life is much calmer for the Figis since Charlotte started on her namesake medication. Her twin, Chase, struggled the worst with the upheaval in her home, Paige says.

"They were best friends; Chase lost her sister," Paige says. "When Charlotte was having seizures, they were loud and violent. Chase would come in, give her a kiss and say, 'OK, don't die tonight. Sweet dreams.' This is what is going through this little 5-year-old's head."

Now, Chase is more like a big sister who helps care for Charlotte. Max knows what to do if Charlotte seizes.

"They've had to grow up," Paige says.

As Paige recounts Charlotte's tale, the girl fiddles with her "talker." She gets it to say her name. She touches the screen again, and a song starts playing. It's "Amazing Grace."



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; US: Colorado; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: cannabidiol; dravetsyndome; medicalmarijuana; medicinalmarijuana
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Hat tip yefragetuwrabrumuy!
1 posted on 06/09/2013 7:05:03 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

This is great.
I am very happy the child has some relief.


2 posted on 06/09/2013 7:07:06 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: neverdem

And yet oddly enough the medical community has had some really good results by removing a portion of the brain that is being stormed all the time. No indication in this article if the neurologists decided against this approach.

Moreover for every one of these single instances there are hundreds if not thousands of folks who are just using pot to get high


3 posted on 06/09/2013 7:13:07 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: Nifster

That could be true.
Personally, I do not know anyone with a certificate that wants to be high, they just want to be pain free and be able to have a restful nights sleep.
I know there is a drug that has THC which is prescription, it is possible that the parents tried this but it was not effective (which it is not in many people).


4 posted on 06/09/2013 7:17:41 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: Nifster

“Moreover for every one of these single instances there are hundreds if not thousands of folks who are just using pot to get high”

What is your objection to someone getting high? Is it the manner in which they chose to do so or is it something else?


5 posted on 06/09/2013 7:20:38 PM PDT by dljordan (WhoVoltaire: "To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.")
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To: Nifster

Would much rather spark one up than have a piece of my brain cut out. If someone gets high as a result, so what?


6 posted on 06/09/2013 7:20:56 PM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Nifster
Moreover for every one of these single instances there are hundreds if not thousands of folks who are just using pot pain killers/narcotic RX drugs to get high.

Note how I didn't include alcohol in the list. Alcohol has ZERO modern medicinal value, therefore the set of people using it to get "high" approaches 100%

That warmth you feel is your strawman completely immolated.

7 posted on 06/09/2013 7:21:17 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (To attempt to have intercourse with a hornet's nest is a very bad idea)
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To: freedumb2003

hum? I have two doctors that say red wine has many health benefits.


8 posted on 06/09/2013 7:23:36 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: Nifster

Perhaps the docs thought that effective treatment achieved with a non-intoxicating plant extract and olive oil was the prima facie option vs. removing part of her brain.


9 posted on 06/09/2013 7:26:02 PM PDT by Magic Fingers (Political correctness mutates in order to remain virulent.)
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To: Nifster
Moreover for every one of these single instances there are hundreds if not thousands of folks who are just using pot to get high

Under the 10th Amendment, that is a concern for state governments, not fedgov. Do you agree or disagree?

10 posted on 06/09/2013 7:27:56 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: neverdem

In other words, federal civil service defense contract employees endorse getting high, and it bolsters the organized crime that supports the economy.


11 posted on 06/09/2013 7:28:19 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: svcw; Nifster

>>hum? I have two doctors that say red wine has many health benefits<<

But did he/she PRESCRIBE wine?

That is the bright line we can draw here. Nifster makes the argument that prescribed pot is used for getting high (and we conclude there is a “therefore it is bad anyway.”

If I am wrong about the “therefore...” part, I stand corrected and ask Nifster to explain the point of his/her post.

If I am not then the strawman conflagration continues unabated.


12 posted on 06/09/2013 7:31:55 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (To attempt to have intercourse with a hornet's nest is a very bad idea)
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To: neverdem

yes. All we have to do is take their word for it.

Never mind the facts.


13 posted on 06/09/2013 7:32:04 PM PDT by LadyDoc (T)
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To: neverdem

Love the headline......


14 posted on 06/09/2013 7:37:24 PM PDT by GSWarrior (When someone points at the moon, don't stare at his finger.)
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To: freedumb2003

Oh, I think I get it.


15 posted on 06/09/2013 7:37:41 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: neverdem

Oh sure, the marijuana stopped little Charlotte’s seizures, but now her soul belongs to Satan!

I don’t really believe that; I’m just saving the troglodytes the trouble of posting.


16 posted on 06/09/2013 7:37:53 PM PDT by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
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To: neverdem

What is that word and what does it mean?


17 posted on 06/09/2013 7:39:23 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: headsonpikes

Do people really say that?


18 posted on 06/09/2013 7:40:06 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: LadyDoc

What?

Do you have “facts” regarding this case that we are unaware of?


19 posted on 06/09/2013 7:41:56 PM PDT by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to thoe tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: LadyDoc

What?

Do you have “facts” regarding this case that we are unaware of?


20 posted on 06/09/2013 7:42:07 PM PDT by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to thoe tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: svcw

Just the troglodytic chaps.


21 posted on 06/09/2013 7:49:33 PM PDT by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
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To: svcw
What is that word and what does it mean?

yefragetuwrabrumuy is someonee's screen name that you can find on a lot of health and science threads.

22 posted on 06/09/2013 8:03:21 PM PDT by neverdem (Register pressure cookers! /s)
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To: headsonpikes
Just the troglodytic chaps.

You wouldn't say that if Chewbacca was here!

23 posted on 06/09/2013 8:05:28 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (To attempt to have intercourse with a hornet's nest is a very bad idea)
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To: neverdem

They misspelled ‘Dravet Syndome’..


24 posted on 06/09/2013 8:06:29 PM PDT by Monty22002
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To: neverdem

Oh, ok


25 posted on 06/09/2013 8:07:44 PM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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To: freedumb2003

Who gets ‘high’ from drinking?!!?? Pot high and being drunk aren’t the same dipS!@#


26 posted on 06/09/2013 8:08:33 PM PDT by Monty22002
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To: freedumb2003
Alcohol has ZERO modern medicinal value

Not actually true. Two I'm aware of are treating poisoning with methanol and propylene glycol. Possibly other poisons.

27 posted on 06/09/2013 8:16:23 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: neverdem

This is the only way marijuana should be given for medical reasons, like a drug, not smoked.


28 posted on 06/09/2013 8:18:21 PM PDT by bigbob
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To: Sherman Logan

>>Not actually true. Two I’m aware of are treating poisoning with methanol and propylene glycol.<<

*sigh* More pedantics. OK, alcohol packaged for public imbibing has little to no medicinal value.

The test is: has it been prescribed? The second test: can it be purchased in the wine/beer/booze section of the supermarket or in the ABC (or equivalent) store?


29 posted on 06/09/2013 8:37:18 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (To attempt to have intercourse with a hornet's nest is a very bad idea)
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To: Monty22002

>>Who gets ‘high’ from drinking?!!?? Pot high and being drunk aren’t the same dipS!@#<<

Please describe the clinical differences. Site references, else be considered a dipS!#it yourself.

Start by defining “high.” Be prepared to defend your definition.


30 posted on 06/09/2013 8:40:04 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (To attempt to have intercourse with a hornet's nest is a very bad idea)
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To: neverdem

Kick her door down and shoot her pets.


31 posted on 06/09/2013 8:48:58 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: headsonpikes

Oh brother... here we go with the over-zealous Medical Marijuana Missionary Volunteers (MMMV) once again. (yawn)


32 posted on 06/09/2013 9:15:42 PM PDT by SierraWasp ("Bitter Ender," "Bitter Clinger," Yes on both. COUNT ME IN!!! I love God and guns, but not gayness!!)
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To: freedumb2003

Clinical? Are you trying to say the effects of each drug are identical to the mind?


33 posted on 06/09/2013 9:39:33 PM PDT by Monty22002
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To: Monty22002

>>Clinical? Are you trying to say the effects of each drug are identical to the mind?<<

Are you suggesting one effect is superior (or less detrimental) than the other?

Please list your criteria.


34 posted on 06/09/2013 10:27:48 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (To attempt to have intercourse with a hornet's nest is a very bad idea)
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To: freedumb2003

Which one do you prefer?


35 posted on 06/09/2013 10:28:52 PM PDT by Monty22002
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To: LadyDoc

Entering cannabidiol and seizures gets 35 citations at PubMed.

Entering endocannabinoid receptors and seizures gets 28 citations at PubMed.

I have no reason to assume bad faith.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed


36 posted on 06/09/2013 11:54:06 PM PDT by neverdem (Register pressure cookers! /s)
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To: neverdem

Without looking at such a fun thread I see pitch feathers and death to hippies already

Lol

Wonder if even one freeper does Bonnaro

I actually know one conservative who goes


37 posted on 06/10/2013 12:04:08 AM PDT by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: autumnraine; neverdem

no, we have no “facts” on this case: what other drugs were used with or without the marijuana, and what dosage of any of them were given to her.

As for “pub med” and other published studies: no, we need double blind studies, not merely looking up research studies that show one chemical in marijuana works for seizures in research animals.

Herbal medicines vary in content and amount per gram, and we have no idea what is going on.

There are a lot of fake articles on medical marijuana...and a lot of money (soros’ Open society funds a lot of them) to try to legalize all drugs.


38 posted on 06/10/2013 1:58:27 AM PDT by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: Monty22002

>>Which one do you prefer?<<
As a public policy issue they are identical. You can’t be for one and against the other.

I am for maximum liberty and minimum Nanny State. Thus, I say “if booze is OK, so is MJ.”

That doesn’t mean I am FOR abuse of either. So let me get there before you can burn that particular strawman.


39 posted on 06/10/2013 3:01:52 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (To attempt to have intercourse with a hornet's nest is a very bad idea)
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To: freedumb2003

You did not say which is the better high. aka, the reason to keep using and get psychologically dependent.


40 posted on 06/10/2013 3:40:09 AM PDT by Monty22002
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To: LadyDoc

Which is exactly why the laws need to change that allows studies done with marijuana.

The histrionics over this plant should have died a long time ago.


41 posted on 06/10/2013 6:12:58 AM PDT by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to thoe tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: freedumb2003

Actually, alcohol does have some limited medicinal effects, with a small amount actually cleaning the liver a bit.

However, the “side effects” are often extreme, for example influencing most of the 100 or so neurochemicals in the brain, a huge number of drug interactions, and by being an addictive substance.

It makes a great antiseptic for active bacteria, if not spores, however. Far less harsh than carbolic acid (phenol), which was the preferred antiseptic before that, and more effective than Hexachlorophene (like PhisoHex), to which bacteria eventually develop resistance.

So alcohol stands up to its nickname, “The neutral spirit”.


42 posted on 06/10/2013 6:33:50 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: svcw

oh please the on stop shops where you can get your diagnosis , card, and smoke are all over California (particularly southern California).

Who do you know that wants to be ‘out of pain’ and hence uses pot to accomplish that? What type of pain do they have? So often people claiming to want to be out of pain really just want to be out. Pot is not a pain killer it is a neurological over load device. I could give morphine or heroin and have the same effect ( or if in Florida I guess oxy is the fad).

The truth is that a certain amount of pain is pretty normal for the human existence. There are ways to deal with it that are effective and do not require the use of pot. IF you need marinol that is still available by prescription and comes in many forms. Your claim that marinol is non effective in many people is not born out by scientific studies.

Just admit it you like smokiing pot and will find any reason to do so


43 posted on 06/10/2013 9:12:18 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: dljordan

it is something else....getting ‘high’ is stupid and usually puts other people at risk....even if the ‘high’ person doesn’t think so

what a silly question.....I am not in favor of people purposely getting drunk either


44 posted on 06/10/2013 9:13:50 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: chris37

you obviously have lost part of your brain in the process of ‘sparking’ one up


45 posted on 06/10/2013 9:14:40 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: freedumb2003

since I do not use alcohol I do not see your point.

the difference between pot and prescribed pharmaceuticals is one of measurable dosage and efficacy. I know you think you have presented a wonderful argument but you have not. What you have done is point out that too many people use drugs for the wrong reasons. Modern America has people in it that want to be pain free (somatized if you will) and taken care of.

Enjoy your state of dependence


46 posted on 06/10/2013 9:17:57 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: Magic Fingers

the suggestion for the use of pot did not come from docs but the childs father.... their is no indication the docs have said anything good about this


47 posted on 06/10/2013 9:19:09 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: Ken H

and what does that have to do with this story????


48 posted on 06/10/2013 9:20:09 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: freedumb2003

in California where so many of these medical pot cases seem to come from (though this one doesn’t) anyone can walk into a pot shop. Most are full service shops....they have a doc who will write you an Rx for your card, you pick up your card, and then you get your weed

My complaint about the use of pot for ‘medicinal’ purposes is that a) there is NO way to gage the dosage one gets from whatever weed is consumed; b) there are NO scientific studies which prove efficacy of pot (as opposed to the active ingredient of THC) in any medical usage; and 3) there are no specific criteria by which pot is prescribed (i.e. no standard set of symptoms) instead what you have are people getting cards for everything from anxiety to generalized pain to allergies ....it is all over the board


49 posted on 06/10/2013 9:26:44 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: Nifster

First, I do not smoke pot. I do not want to be high, I want to be pain free (or pain reduced free)
Second, I said some people have tried the pill form and it is not effective for everyone.
If I could take the pill and have a reduction in pain I would, however I do not know a single doctor who knows anything about it.
I live in southern California (Santa Barbara) and there is not a single dispensary here, they were ALL raided by the feds.
I do have a certificate but again smoking pot is worthless for me because I do NOT want to be high.
When I went to get the certificate, I had a complete physical, with a really long questionnaire asking why I thought pot would be of benefit, it was not a given.
Yes, I understand that pain is normal is everyday life, I am talking about pain that interferes with even the most minimal daily activities or sleep.
So beleive me or not, pot, MJ, ganga whatever you call it is effective for pain control for many people, I do not have a problem with that.
It would be nice to have a different delivery system and the same benefit.


50 posted on 06/10/2013 9:36:12 AM PDT by svcw (If you are dead when your heart stops, why aren't you alive when it starts.)
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