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Airport landing system off when plane crashed in San Francisco
Reuters ^ | July 07, 2013 | Peter Henderson and Dan Levine

Posted on 07/07/2013 8:11:12 AM PDT by george76

A navigation system that helps pilots make safe descents was turned off at San Francisco airport on Saturday when a South Korean airliner crashed and burned after undershooting the runway ...

The system, called Glide Path, is meant to help planes land in bad weather. It was clear and sunny, with light winds, when Asiana

...

San Francisco International has turned off the system for nearly the entire summer on the runway where the Asiana flight crashed, according to a notice from the airport on the Federal Aviation Administration's Web site

(Excerpt) Read more at ca.news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Japan; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: airport; asiana; asiana214; faa; fl214; flight214; ils; sanfrancisco; sfo; southkorea
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To: justlurking
We fly and have our own small plane also. The thing that I have noticed in the last few years is that even in some of the newer general aviation airplanes there can be so many “safety features” that they become a distraction. Instead of flying the plane pilots can become distracted by all of the bells and whistles going off.

I was watching a video taken from the inside of the cockpit of a commuter plane landing at a small airport in the foot hills... on downwind, base and final a computer voice was giving dire sounding terrain warnings and even saying repeatedly, “Pull up! Pull up! Pull up!” on short final. The pilot of course was wisely ignoring this distraction and just flying his plane, but it kind of made me glad that I don't have that kind of crap installed in our airplane.

The worst landing I ever made... I was coming into a small airport that I had been to before, on short final my passengers yelled out, “Watch out for those wires!” The wires of course went under the runway, but he saw the poles on both sides that had conduits that routed the wires down.

It distracted me for a moment at a critical time in the landing sequence. I nosed up briefly which caused the plane to lose airspeed. I immediately pointed the nose back down, but then I had to flair much more than normal to arrest our descent as we entered ground effect near the surface of the runway. This put us in a nose high attitude and the tie down for the tail actually started scraping on the ground before the main gear touched the pavement. It made a bad noise but fortunately did not hurt anything other than scraping off about a quarter inch of aluminum from the tie down.

To me this 777 accident sounds a little like a jumbo sized version of what happened to me during my worst landing. My guess is that something distracted the pilot and caused him to deviate from his normal approach with tragic consequences.

61 posted on 07/07/2013 9:00:59 AM PDT by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: traumer

thanks


62 posted on 07/07/2013 9:01:26 AM PDT by eyedigress ((zOld storm chaser from the west)/ ?s)
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To: mandaladon

Notice that the less damaged areas are around the doors where there is more structural material.


63 posted on 07/07/2013 9:03:30 AM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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Comment #64 Removed by Moderator

To: justlurking

It looks like the threshold to Runway 28L had been relocated. If the PAPI’s and Glide Slope transmitter had not been moved to the new threshold that would account for them being out of service.


65 posted on 07/07/2013 9:03:56 AM PDT by ops33 (Senior Master Sergeant, USAF (Retired))
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To: justlurking

An ILS has a Glide Slope; a glide path refers to either a GPS approach or a runway with a visual assist ie VASI or PAPI.


66 posted on 07/07/2013 9:04:03 AM PDT by IFly4Him
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To: ops33
If you look at the aerial pic of the crash the threshold is displaced.

I can see that. My question is whether it was changed recently, and that's the reason the PAPI was OTS.

I looked at the current NOTAMS, but if there was one for the PAPI being OTS before the crash, it has been superseded. The current one is dated a few hours after the crash.

67 posted on 07/07/2013 9:04:17 AM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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Comment #68 Removed by Moderator

To: Logical me
> Used to come in a little high and use cross control
> to drop altitude at threshold and flare for fun.

Slipping: what saved the "Gimli Glider".

I used to fly the same way, when the POH didn't prohibit slipping with flaps. And, of course, in gliders it's another way (plus the spoilers, if any) to carry "a little extra power" on approach.

It was my impression, back when I was flying, that the only power pilots that knew about slipping were those with glider time (and that was the case for the Gimli Glider incident).

So with the ILS and PAPI down, did this pilot have to rely on good'ol stick&rudder airmanship? How much training do they get on that scenario?

69 posted on 07/07/2013 9:09:18 AM PDT by Boundless (Survive Obamacare by not needing it.)
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To: Big Giant Head

Descent rate is about 50% higher than normal for the ground speeds in question; one thought crossed my mind was that they had the spoilers deployed and never stowed them. The post crash pics don’t support that though.


70 posted on 07/07/2013 9:09:39 AM PDT by IFly4Him
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To: fireman15
I was watching a video taken from the inside of the cockpit of a commuter plane landing at a small airport in the foot hills... on downwind, base and final a computer voice was giving dire sounding terrain warnings and even saying repeatedly, “Pull up! Pull up! Pull up!” on short final. The pilot of course was wisely ignoring this distraction and just flying his plane, but it kind of made me glad that I don't have that kind of crap installed in our airplane.

The safety nazis have created an atmosphere whereby in an effort to make a situation foolproof, they have actually made it worse. It's like that in the electric power industry as well. And, I'm sure, many other industries. They try to codify all actions, eliminating the thought process from all activities.

This is the classic "boy who cried wolf" scenario - the alarms go off so often for mundane, unimportant reasons that when something critical does happen, the pending alarm is ignored. In effect, the warning system has cried wolf so many times that it isn't believed when the proverbial wolf does appear.

71 posted on 07/07/2013 9:13:35 AM PDT by meyer (When people fear the government, you have Tyranny)
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To: Yosemitest
I just noticed your link to the FlightAware tracklog, and that's really interesting.

It looks like they had to rush their descent through the last few thousand feet, and when they checked their descent rate they lost too much airspeed.

72 posted on 07/07/2013 9:15:36 AM PDT by justlurking (tagline removed, as demanded by Admin Moderator)
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To: george76

Question is what were the devices on the plane that help with approach, elevation, etc showing? Were they malfunctioning, etc. and what does the pilot voice recorder show?


73 posted on 07/07/2013 9:16:21 AM PDT by deport
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To: Yosemitest

No. Because you are a pilot is no reason to berate others who don’t use your terminology. They didn’t invent the radars nor the radio systems.


74 posted on 07/07/2013 9:16:28 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Yosemitest
Spoken like a career watch sup.....

You putz, there has been NO information that ATC had a damned thing to do with this accident.

Yet you post your photo and rant on multiple threads, tossing out the intimation that controllers led these little tow-headed, rosy-cheeked pilots down the path of certain doom.

The number of people who become 'supervisors' early in their career, and stay there forever, is an application of the Peter Principle, and you appear to be a perfect example.

Most, (not all, but most) young ATC sups are/were lousy at and/or scared of the job of controlling. I have known of high level staffers/sups who have never actually checked out on operational positions...and lots more who did, but only certified for 'light traffic'.

Any of these sound familiar???? of course they do.

75 posted on 07/07/2013 9:16:53 AM PDT by diogenes ghost
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To: Vendome

Quantas never crashes.


76 posted on 07/07/2013 9:21:08 AM PDT by boomop1 (term limits will only save this country.)
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To: wastedyears
Why the hell would the ILS be off?

According to another Freeper, it is because the runways are being remarked, changing the touchdown point for the ILS system. The system is scheduled to be turned back on after the markings are finished and the system re-calibrated and tested for landings at the new mark.

77 posted on 07/07/2013 9:22:09 AM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: SkyDancer

We might never know why that plane had to declare mayday. You know, why were there holes in the top of the fuselage? Why did the landing gear fail? Why did the tail shear off? Things like that.


78 posted on 07/07/2013 9:22:13 AM PDT by wastedyears (I'm a gamer not because I choose to have no life, but because I choose to have many.)
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To: george76

Sequester? Using too much carbon-based electricity? Is this what we have to look forward to when the coal power plants are forced to shut down due to new EPA rules?


79 posted on 07/07/2013 9:26:50 AM PDT by Real Cynic No More (Border Fence Obamacare!)
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To: SkyDancer

I think the PAPI is replacement for the VASI, I always was watching the VASI when landing.


80 posted on 07/07/2013 9:30:15 AM PDT by boomop1 (term limits will only save this country.)
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