Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Amash NSA defunding amendment squashed
upi ^ | July 24, 2013

Posted on 07/24/2013 5:25:51 PM PDT by SMGFan

WASHINGTON, July 24 (UPI) -- The U.S. House Wednesday narrowly defeated Rep. Justin Amash's attempt to severely restrict the National Security Agency's telephone data mining.

The Michigan Republican's measure, opposed by the White House and congressional leaders on both sides of the aisle, was voted down 205-217, Roll Call reported.

(Excerpt) Read more at upi.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: justinamash; michigan; palestinian; randsconcerntrolls; waronterror

1 posted on 07/24/2013 5:25:51 PM PDT by SMGFan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SMGFan

The Leadership on both sides is the same Leadership.

In fact the Democrats are the Leadership and Boehner and McConnell just follow along.


2 posted on 07/24/2013 5:28:44 PM PDT by Venturer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SMGFan
It sure is handy to have extensive files on every congresscritter, isn't it?
3 posted on 07/24/2013 5:31:01 PM PDT by null and void ( You don't know what "cutting edge" means till you insult Mohammed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SMGFan

I’m surprised it was that close. I dislike a lot of Amash’s positions but I’ll give him props for this effort. Close but no cigar. Obama’s panopticon continues to fill its hard disks.


4 posted on 07/24/2013 5:38:10 PM PDT by Viennacon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SMGFan

So the RINODems are against it?

If at first you don’t succeed............................


5 posted on 07/24/2013 5:42:47 PM PDT by Flintlock ("The redcoats are coming" -- TO SEIZE OUR GUNS!!--Paul Revere)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SMGFan

Well, that whole “America” thing sure WAS nice, now wasn’t it..?

Welcome to the Death Star, I guess...?


6 posted on 07/24/2013 5:43:32 PM PDT by gaijin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SMGFan

Kevin Brady, Lamar Smith and Randy Neugebauer are three TX Republicans who answered the call by Speaker Boehner to vote for Big Government spying on all of us.

Voting with Sheila Jackson Lee and Gene Green, Houston Socialists, is not the way to impress voters from their very conservative districts. The TEA Party should find some fine candidates to primary all three of them. It’s not patriotic to vote for your pathetic Speaker instead of for freedom.


7 posted on 07/24/2013 5:47:51 PM PDT by txrefugee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SMGFan

well, thank goodness that measure was stopped

if it had passed, Americans would have thought they had a modicum of privacy

good to know where these ‘leaders’ stand


8 posted on 07/24/2013 5:51:41 PM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SMGFan

94 Republicans and 111 Dems voted for it.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml


9 posted on 07/24/2013 5:52:08 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Viennacon
I’m surprised it was that close.

I doubt it was that close. Just Kubuki play-acting. Those in tough districts get to vote for it, those in safe districts can vote against it. Big Government is never going to trim Big Government (at least not voluntarily).

10 posted on 07/24/2013 6:00:57 PM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: SMGFan

Wide open border and massive influx of muslims but the only way Mordor on the Potomac can address it is an incipient police state.

The Republican/Democrat political complex—it’s them versus us.


11 posted on 07/24/2013 6:08:04 PM PDT by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrsmith
The liberal Dims and the Libertarian leaning GOP members voted for the measure.

Kind of illustrates why many Conservatives cant support the Liberaltarians ....

12 posted on 07/24/2013 6:09:29 PM PDT by montanajoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: montanajoe
Kind of illustrates why many Conservatives cant[sic] support the neocons....

Fixed it for you.

13 posted on 07/24/2013 6:13:06 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: txrefugee

I am afraid LaMar did not need much “persuading.” He seems to lean that way on his own.


14 posted on 07/24/2013 6:13:24 PM PDT by man_in_tx (Blowback (Faithfully farting twowards Mecca five times daily).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: SMGFan

Fed Gov out of control and there appears to be no legal way of stopping it. Time for Revolution II.


15 posted on 07/24/2013 6:19:23 PM PDT by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: montanajoe

I see a few conservatives voted for it.

I’m all right with collecting the ‘metadata’ so long as it’s not accessed without a warrant.


16 posted on 07/24/2013 6:20:55 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: txrefugee

So did TX District 13 Rep. Mac Thornberry.

I’m running again in 2014 to replace him. Sure could use some Freedom and Liberty loving Constitutional Conservatives to help me with this. Thanks!!!

http://www.sendmetocongress.us
https://www.facebook.com/DrPamBarlow4Congress


17 posted on 07/24/2013 6:24:26 PM PDT by LTC.Ret (You'd think I would know better than to volunteer!!! www.sendmetocongress.us)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: LTC.Ret

good luck!


18 posted on 07/24/2013 6:25:13 PM PDT by GeronL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: montanajoe

So are you in favor of the government spying on American citizens that are not suspected of any illegal activity?


19 posted on 07/24/2013 6:30:57 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: mrsmith
I’m all right with collecting the ‘metadata’ so long as it’s not accessed without a warrant.

The issue isn't about collecting it in the sense that the data is merely passed through some system and then not accessed. The data is clearly being accessed, stored, and used without a warrant.

20 posted on 07/24/2013 6:32:49 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: freeandfreezing

I am in favor of the NSA doing what it is and has been doing since 2001..


21 posted on 07/24/2013 6:32:58 PM PDT by montanajoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: freeandfreezing

I haven’t seen any report that the metadata has been used for more than checking if numbers, email adds or whatever are connected to foreign surveilance targets.

If there are credible reports of other use, without warrant, I have not seen them. That would be a very ‘big deal’ and I think widely reported.


22 posted on 07/24/2013 6:46:02 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: mrsmith

You sure are trusting mrsmith.

Typically the govt. has all of our best interests at heart, and rarely deviates from their operating procedures.


23 posted on 07/24/2013 6:52:03 PM PDT by techworker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: mrsmith
I’m all right with collecting the ‘metadata’ so long as it’s not accessed without a warrant.

That's the biggest problem: if it's collected at all it will be accessed, regardless of warrant.

24 posted on 07/24/2013 7:01:35 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: techworker

You sound a lot more trusting than me. I hope you were using sarcasm to avoid my point.

I’m a hardcore “persons, houses, papers, and effects” Fourth Amendment guy. Though the metadata collecting smacks of “general warrant” I can not consider that data “persons, houses, papers, and effects”.

Convenience nor technological advances neccessarily increase people’s freedoms.


25 posted on 07/24/2013 7:16:43 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: OneWingedShark

“if it’s collected at all it will be accessed”

I would assume so through error or malice, but I’ve seen no reports of it happening. Snowden didn’t present any evidence of it. There are claims the courts issue warrants too easily. That should be looked into.
But ‘metadata’ doesn’t have any Fouth Amendment cache anyway, and shouldn’t IMO.


26 posted on 07/24/2013 7:33:37 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: mrsmith
But ‘metadata’ doesn’t have any Fouth Amendment cache anyway, and shouldn’t IMO.

Metadata is the characteristics of the communication: who to, how long, etc.
One big problem is that the message content is being harvested as well. It is not just meta-data.
Another problem is that even the meta-data can be used to implicate someone who is innocent: just look at the number of hops they're using in their observations: 3 hops (perhaps more). This is particularly disturbing when you consider that on average you can get from any person to any other person in an average of 4.7 hops.
There's no way that this can qualify for even probable cause (which is what is supposed to be grounds for getting a warrant, not bypassing the requirement thereof), much less the requirement that a warrant particularly describe what is to be searched.

I'm sorry, but even mere meta-data (which is not all that is being collected) qualifies as unreasonable search and therefore is a fourth amendment issue.

27 posted on 07/24/2013 7:54:22 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: SMGFan

My wonderful, fantastic, quiet as a church mouse on any subject, (except when he feels like mailing one of those how goes it cards, that I pay for), so-called Republican, so-called conservative, Congressman Rodney Alexander, just slipped his voting constiuents, in the Central Louisiana area, another dry plastic banana suppository!

This mongrel dog voted NO on the bill.

He has been in office for three terms now.
I am not voting for the SCHTUPP.


28 posted on 07/24/2013 8:21:17 PM PDT by Terry L Smith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: null and void

Not every... 205 voted to curtail the spying.


29 posted on 07/24/2013 8:37:24 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: gaijin

You do remember the Death Star’s fate?


30 posted on 07/24/2013 8:38:06 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: LibLieSlayer
The art of the deal is to allow as many as possible to vote against such atrocities while always insuring enough vote the way you want.

That way some senators can tell their constituents that they voted against a, b and c.
Some tell their constituents they voted against l, m and n.
Some that they voted against x, y and z.

Yet a, b, c...l, m, n...x, y and z all pass.

31 posted on 07/24/2013 8:45:50 PM PDT by null and void ( You don't know what "cutting edge" means till you insult Mohammed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: montanajoe

In that case you are in favor of ignoring the Constitutionally protected right to privacy.


32 posted on 07/24/2013 9:07:36 PM PDT by ExpatGator (I hate Illinois Nazis!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: SMGFan; Venturer; null and void; Viennacon; Flintlock; gaijin; txrefugee; sten; mrsmith; El Cid; ...

Your Congress member may have commented during this debate

28:42 Minutes
Congress Votes To Continue NSA Spying On “EVERY PHONE CALL OF EVERY AMERICAN EVERYDAY!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KElJSklSIBM

Another thread
House votes to continue NSA surveillance program (217-205)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3046938/posts


33 posted on 07/24/2013 10:08:28 PM PDT by Whenifhow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: null and void
I know... it doesn't work that way with me... I pay attention between votes. I noticed when 72 republican congressmen invited Beck to DC to warn him about this immigration treason. Those 72 men and women are patriots. We are not totally devoid of them we are just holding little power today... but we will change that and soon. Vote most of these bastards into obama’s unemployment line! Vote ONLY CONSERVATIVE... deny the rinoid vermin their coveted seats.
34 posted on 07/25/2013 4:11:41 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: SMGFan
From CNN story....."The Obama administration and House Speaker John Boehner, unlikely allies in the sharp partisan climate in Washington, joined forces to reject the limit offered as an amendment to a defense spending bill, 217-205. "


35 posted on 07/25/2013 7:02:36 AM PDT by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OneWingedShark

The collection of content was banned by an amendment that did pass yesterday:
““SEC. XX. None of funds made available by this Act may be used by the National Security Agency to—
(1) conduct an acquisition pursuant to section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 for the purpose of targeting a United States person; or
(2) acquire, monitor, or store the contents (as such term is defined in section 2510(8) of title 18, United States Code) of any electronic communication of a United States person from a provider of electronic communication services to the public pursuant to section 501 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978.””

Now, instead of getting warrants to search the content in their own files, they must get warrants to search the providers’ files to see content.
So now someone outside of the NSA and FISA will know it’s being done.
That’s a great improvement (Assuming the amendment survives through passage).

Counting “Hops” is irrelevent. Buying a few “repeater” phones or email accounts will defeat any program limited by “hops”. It’s the efficiency of the algorithm used that determines how intrusive the program is. That should be monitored.


36 posted on 07/25/2013 8:57:40 AM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: montanajoe
I am in favor of the NSA doing what it is and has been doing since 2001

Just say, "We are terrorized!" Give the psychos their due. They won. They'd rather have this than a parade.

37 posted on 07/25/2013 8:59:03 AM PDT by Forgotten Amendments (I remember when a President having an "enemies list" was a scandal. Now, they have a kill list.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: SMGFan
GREAT "Leadership" from treacherous House Slaves, Boehner and Cantor.

WHO installed these two Trojan Horse Dem puppets as GOP "leaders"?? ANYONE??

38 posted on 07/25/2013 9:01:36 AM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mrsmith
Here is a report by ABC news which suggests the NSA has developed the software for perusing data collected on US citizens, and made it available to analysts to use without a system that requires a warrant.

“There are legal constraints for how you can spy on Americans,” Greenwald said. “You can’t target them without going to the FISA court. But these systems allow analysts to listen to whatever emails they want, whatever telephone calls, browsing histories, Microsoft Word documents.”

“And it’s all done with no need to go to a court, with no need to even get supervisor approval on the part of the analyst,” he added.

Source

The denials, such as this one from Sen. Chambliss seem rather tepid:

“In fact, we don’t monitor emails. That’s what kind of assures me is that what the reporting is is not correct. Because no emails are monitored now,” Chambliss said. “They used to be, but that stopped two or three years ago. So I feel confident that there may have been some abuse, but if it was it was pure accidental.”

I doubt the NSA is about to admit exactly what they are doing, as is to be expected for any intelligence agency. But Sen. Chambliss seems to be already laying down the "there may have been some abuse but it was accidental" card. Kind of like the "rogue IRS agents" we heard about earlier this year. I doubt anything "accidental" happens at an agency like the NSA.

39 posted on 07/28/2013 1:44:21 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Whenifhow

Whenifhow wrote:
“Your Congress member may have commented during this debate.”

No, the esteemed Southern gentleman, (harumph), Congressman Rodney Alexander, 3rd term in office, spineless dolt that he is, did not!

He was to appear on the local (970am Alexandria LA) radio station, as is his custom on Thursday mornings, but even HIS STAFF, whom I had called, were unaware that he did NOT show on that program, the morning AFTER voting AGAINST defunding the NSA.

“I yield my time.”


40 posted on 07/28/2013 4:09:51 PM PDT by Terry L Smith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: mrsmith
I haven’t seen any report that the metadata has been used for more than checking if numbers, email adds or whatever are connected to foreign surveilance targets.

If there are credible reports of other use, without warrant, I have not seen them. That would be a very ‘big deal’ and I think widely reported.

Here's another media report - this time of what appears to be a visit to and in-person interrogation of US citizens based on internet search terms. That seems like "other use" to me, and actually collection of much more than meta-data without any warrant. Searching for pressure cookers and backpacks triggers a visit from the police

41 posted on 08/01/2013 11:46:25 AM PDT by freeandfreezing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: freeandfreezing

Interesting.
One’s searches are not protected by the Constitution of course. IMO there is no good reason to pass laws protecting them either.

This does show incredible overreach, waste and inefficiency though if the search was instigated from a ‘search examining’ algorithm!

I’ll check back on that report, thanks.


42 posted on 08/01/2013 1:16:18 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: freeandfreezing

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3050147/posts?page=34#34

Employer reported it.


43 posted on 08/01/2013 7:26:09 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson