Posted on 07/29/2013 5:33:38 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
Pope Francis reached out to gays on Monday, saying he wouldn't judge priests for their sexual orientation in a remarkably open and wide-ranging news conference as he returned from his first foreign trip...
"If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" Francis asked.
His predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, signed a document in 2005 that said men with deep-rooted homosexual tendencies should not be priests. Francis was much more conciliatory, saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.
Francis' remarks came Monday during a plane journey back to the Vatican from his first foreign trip in Brazil.
He was funny and candid during a news conference that lasted almost an hour and a half. He didn't dodge a single question, even thanking the journalist who raised allegations reported by an Italian newsmagazine that one of his trusted monsignors was involved in a scandalous gay tryst.
(Excerpt) Read more at mobile.philly.com ...
I wish someone would ask him about Pelosi and Biden receiving Communion when they both support abortion.
“Is it a ‘sin’ to be an adulterer; iffn you only THINK about it?”
Yes. Thinking LUSTFULLY about a sex act is just as sinful as actually doing it. And self-abuse is a sin just as mortal as adultery or rape. The Roman Catholic theology is that any intentional sexual release, OR willful thoughts that could incline one that way, outside of man/woman marriage, condemns one to Hell for eternity.
EXACTLY!
That is an excellent response. Great job.
Occasionally, but not as often was one would think, what is said might not mean what is heard.
In addition, it's because if one does or does not say what they mean, it often does not mean what is specifically said or not said.
Finally -- some clarity!
(who has the bong? ;-)
How sad. I thought this pope was a 'by the book' kind of guy. Apparently he wants to make the rules as he goes along, and to hell with what scripture says.
No truth to that whatsoever...You catechism is lying to you...
And this lie is not based upon scripture...No salvation comes thru any church...
The church is necessary for salvation??? Ridiculous...Salvation is necessary for the church...
he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door.
NO...Jesus is not present to us in His body...Jesus is present within Christians in the person of the Holy Spirit...
No one in the bible ever talked about the necessity of a church...The church is the result of souls being saved...
Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
I got a sneaking hunch that those who refuse to enter your religion and those who refuse to remain in your religion make the mistake of thinking your religion was founded by God...So I don't see where that would apply to anyone...
Homosexuality is a stench in the nostrils of God, the BIBLE says so, and any Priest who isn't celibate doesn't need to be preaching to others about sin.
My 2 cents for what it's worth
LOL!!!
No kidding....
Baptism is not the door.
JESUS is the door.
John 10:7-9 So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.
It’s evasive babble...It’s what politicians and others who desire to avoid hard questions and or make clear statements do. Ya see it here, on FOX, CNN etc...
here’s a good article from a foxnews catholic priest correspondent. the media got it all wrong, as usual: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/07/29/what-pope-francis-really-said-about-gays-and-no-it-not-new/?test=latestnews
The Pope can change what the Church teaches, however, he won’t .
I’ve especially had fun watching the MSM pretend they have a clue. And they really seem to think he has done something new here.
There is dogma and there is doctrine.
The tenets which advise proper disposition toward relations come from scripture.
The pope is not a king, emperor nor a democratic leader who can say what is moral and what isn’t when it comes to this.
So, no, as much as these silly newspapers and others who refuse to think or do research would like to believe, the pope cannot change this.
There is much written in the Church about it, including a document on the pastoral care of homosexuals and also Pope Benedict’s statement that homosexuals shouldn’t enter the priesthood.
They are all theological analyses and not some peoples’ ideas based on ramblings of mediosas, politicians, nor university professors who are not theologians.
So, no.
And the National Catholic Register can tell anyone with a quick google search what Pope Francis did say this morning and throughout his priesthood on homosexuality and any other topic he has spoken on. And it is never some uninformed opinion based on sentiment or political leaning.
Thanks, Mrs. Don-o. Check out this thread. It’s satire on the ridiculous misreporting on this event by the lamestream media.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3048878/posts
“The Pope was sleepy and didn’t mean it.”
“The Pope didn’t actually say that.”
“The Pope said that, but meant something else.”
“The Pope said it and meant it but it doesn’t mean what he said.”
“It depends on what the meaning of is, is.”
“The Pope’s not infallible, it’s the Church that is infallible.”
“The Pope is infallible but only sometimes.”
“The Church and the Pope are fallible sometimes, but always right.”
“The Church is more than the Pope, but Protestants are heretics for not accepting the Pope.”
“Nothing is going on here, the media is misrepresenting the Pope.”
“Anyone who is confused by this is a Catholic hater.”
“Catholics don’t have to understand the Pope, just trust the Pope.”
“The Church and the Pope are one, even when they disagree.”
“Being disturbed over this shows lack of faith.”
“Scripture is more than words, so the Pope’s words are irrelevent.”
“The Pope is more than anything he says, so just trust him.”
“Why do you hate Catholics so much?”
Meh.
All of these pathetic excuses, and more, are on this thread. And they are typical of the weasel-words I have heard from Catholics all my life. I know some good Catholics because they are deeply spiritual people. But I walked away from Catholicism because I couldn’t take the bald-faced hypocrisy from “Catholics” who would snarl at me for pointing it out, yet constantly pontificate about right and wrong. And the Church was no help, contradicting itself on so many issues, refusing to admit it and just demanding my faith, and worst of all telling me that it had the authority to tell what I could conclude from what I could think about.
Well it worked on me as a child, but that’s it. “When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.” - 1 Corinthians 13:11
Meh. You want to be a Catholic, then follow the Pope, no matter what he says. That’s Catholicism. The Pope is not your bud, and he’s not some talk show host you can consider at your leisure. He’s literally the rock upon which the Catholic Church is built. Take it or leave it, but at least show some self-respect and stop being such a weasel-worded hypocrite. Pope Benedict felt the same way, and said he’d rather have a much smaller Catholic Church than one fully of weasels. You want to be a Protestant, then for the love of God just be one, and stop twisting around on the fence.
Otherwise, the Pope just told you not to judge homosexuals, and to integrate them into society.
“integrate”
4a : to end the segregation of and bring into equal membership in society or an organization - Websters Dictionary
What does that “mean”? It means, obviously, to drop the negative attitude and start treating homosexuals as equal human beings in your mind and heart and soul - as well as your behavior. Don’t like it? Then find your integrity and become a Protestant. Otherwise, go to confession and ask for help.
But you are not allowed to argue the teaching - period.
THAT’S what having a Pope means.
/rant
I’ll give my two cents on this. I think this is the new Pope’s first real lesson in being media Savvy.
For those of you who don’t know me, I’m not Catholic, but do love my Catholic Brothers and Sisters in Christ and consider them such, and while I don’t look to the Pope as my supreme spiritual leader, I do have some admiration for him as a minister and regard him as a man who so far seems to be a good man that understands what the Book of James refers to as “pure religion”.
So, coming from that standpoint, I think what he meant here is something that we protestants commonly refer to as “love the sinner hate the sin”. He probably didn’t say it as well as he could have being that A) he’s a 77 year old man (I think) and B) this is a level of media spotlight he probably isn’t accustomed to yet. I don’t believe he was saying “its OK to be gay”.
That being said, his statement about not Judging gays, if he meant it in the way I believe he did, may well be a legitimate expression of how Christians should behave. If a gay person walks into my church, I don’t stand in the Foyer and say “out with you, rotten sinner”. Further, I believe if someone who is gay turns to Christ and says, I’m gay, I don’t know how to stop, but I know I need Christ...again, I have no doubt that Jesus forgives them, and does it even before they have exited the lifestyle. If we have to quit our sin before being forgiven, then it is not Grace, but my righteousness...which the Bible tells us is to God as filthy (literally menstrual) rags. I believe that is what the Pope is meaning when he says he is not to Judge.
The next step, of course, is repentance. You need to quit doing those things that are displeasing to God. But here comes the catch...we don’t. At least I don’t. I certainly struggle with things, temper and language, but those are sins just like any other. Repentance is a marathon, not a sprint. We’re all to Crucify our flesh and pick up our cross DAILY. Its a chore. So again, if someone is struggling with homosexuality, I don’t believe that removes them from God’s Grace anymore than someone that struggles with drunkenness, or anger, or any other sin. Within church structure, someone struggling with such things may be disqualified from being in positions of authority, but its not my place to Judge their salvation. God looks on the heart and knows if the person is truly seeking righteousness, and its not my place to judge their efforts at obtaining.
It IS my job as a Christian to always direct people to the Word of God. On this, we can not and must not compromise. But its never our job to Convict. That’s the Holy Spirit’s job, and he does it well. Its my job to say Brother, Sister, there is a “more excellent way”. I may be the only Jesus some people ever see, as the song says. Its my job to uplift, encourage, love and support those who are weak and not be a stumbling block, believing that God who knows that persons heart will deal with them as he sees fit.
Paul, the man that wrote a quarter of the New Testament referred to himself as the “Chief of Sinners” and lamented that he did those things he did not wish to do, and did not do the things he did wish to do. Through God’s grace, Paul fought the good fight (note that he referred to it as a fight). Heaven requires perfection, which to sinners like Paul and me is like asking for the moon...and by that Amazing Grace, we can attain it.
It sure has and it sure does and those comments have been posted and cited for anyone to read.
Excellent rant.
I’m stealing parts of it, if it’s all the same to you....
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