Posted on 07/30/2013 12:00:05 PM PDT by JSDude1
Ok people here's the problem: Property taxes I am sure you agree are un-American! Why should we ~rent~ our own property from the various government entities rather than owning it outright, for all of time for our personal use/posterity!?
So here's the question: what do we need to do to END PROPERTY TAXES? (I know we are a smart bunch, much smarter than the left-so we CAN get this done, somehow..).
Property taxes existed in the colonial times. I'm not sure what they did if you didn't pay. But it's probably more lenient now than it was back then.
The view back then is that government provided a valuable service in protecting your property. Thus it was only natural that property owners should be expected to pay for that service.
That's why I don't confuse terms and call "property taxes" by the name "rent" like you or "theft" like others. It's neither. It's a tax. Scripture says pay your taxes. It has a history in our country from the very beginning. The founders fathers were okay with it. I am too.
Call it something else. Just kidding.
As far as taxation goes, property tax is about as fair as it gets. Pretty much everyone pays the same rate, it is spent fairly locally and the representation is fairly local.
Yearly tax too high, run for local office to change it, move to a smaller place or to an area with lower rates.
It’s not like federal taxes where you have effectively no representation, the money is shipped out of your state and tax rates vary greatly.
No but if you are going to have those services, you need to fund them somehow. Property taxes were around since the start of the country and the founding fathers were okay with them. It makes sense to me that property owners in an area would pay a fair share of the costs of providing certain services.
It makes sense that if the services are directly related to owning property, or even somewhat indirectly related, or related to developing that community, that a property tax would be a reasonable way of funding those services.
An aside, but the country next to our heavily zoned county has no zoning, and it's interesting to drive around it. It's not totally chaotic nor are their property values abysmal, instead it seems just as well-laid out as our county, leading me to wonder if perhaps the advantages to zoning accrue mostly to those in seats of government power.
Well I'm aware of two counties near me, that have less zoning and they are much poorer counties. Whereas the higher zoning areas like Franklin, TN are the fastest growing areas of the state.
There are a core set of building codes here that are state wide. But local communities can add on.
I think the thing you notice in the poorer counties is more land per house. And you don't see a lot of businesses in residential land, because it's almost all residential or farmland.
If you end property taxes as such, speculators will move in and buy up private property, driving homeowners out.
So to start with, property taxes should only be ended under strict criteria: the property must have your primary home, and you must live there. It is limited in size and amenities, and must be non-commercial. That is, no home based businesses.
Property tax abatement also goes hand in glove with inheritance tax abatement, or else you pay no property tax, but for you to give the land to your children costs 100% of its value. That is, as soon as Democrats are in power.
Such tax abatement must be created with a 2/3rds vote needed for ending it, or it will be killed quickly.
Well, every July 4th we are supposed to remember a singular event which ended oppressive taxes and other injustices. Any event so hallowed ever since ought to provide an inspiration for the solution of our present distress.
Nice to see that you don't want members of the armed forces or the post-office to vote (chosen because both are Constitutional set-up): all their salaries come from taxpayers.
Only property owners should be allowed to vote. This would change things.
In my state, they couldn't touch your property for unpaid taxes until you died. They changed that 15 years ago.
Now, it's 3 years, and they take it.
It's rent.
Wear your chains lightly, both of you.
It is sort of like sharecropping. Sort of like feudalism. Okay... a LOT like feudalism!
There should NEVER be taxes on the possession of property. That’s COMMUNISM!!!
Agreed, property taxes should be ended. Land is the most fundamental of possessions, taxation renders it rental. I actually hold that tax free living should be possible for the most self-sufficient.
Comes down to lobbying. Encourage legislators to end it, one government spending item redirected or eliminated at a time until no property tax required, or amend state constitution to prohibit taxation of owned-outright possessions. Someone has to start and lead the movement.
“property taxes are the way to go. Raising them can make homeowners irate, and they are much more likely to take action”
Hence this thread. Homeowners are irate at paying rent to keep what they OWN.
Surprisingly, Kalifornia does this -- not that the fools who vote here even notice the details.........ain't gonna help one bit.
18th Century History: Tax laws of the 18th Century Then and Now
So your no seize state was apparently an exception, and now they've gone back to the norm.
I married a gypsy girl in Las Vegas several years ago.
After talking with the family for a few years, I have come up with the following observations on property ownership.
According to the gypsies, you only hold ownership to any tract of land as long as the people around you agree that you own the property.
As soon as this breaks down, you can only hold the property by force.
Therefore the ownership of property is a myth.
It is a consensus that, throughout history, over time has been broken over and over again.
You dont own property.
You own a dubious consensus.
You say that like it is a bad thing! Look at the letters home of the Civil War soldiers vs. the writing skills of the adults who graduated HS post 1980. The soldiers were quite literate with an 8th grade education or less, and out kids have advanced college degrees and can't order a hot dog in writing.
So do away with public schools, i.e. government schools, and there is your answer.
The only other option that conceivably works is income taxes, and I think those are even worse than property taxes. I understand the viewpoint; for my mother in law, her property tax, per month, is as much as her mortgage is. "I don't get it," she said one day. "I've almost gotten this house paid off, how come the monthly bill (which includes a property tax impound) keeps going higher?"
I explain it to her, just like I explain it to everyone. The bill keeps getting higher because city employees think that the city treasury is there for them to loot to their heart's desire. Parties, long vacations, plenty of paid days off, and massive sick leave (which they'll get paid for even if they aren't sick..) Added atop that is a platinum health care plan, a pension that would bankrupt any small business owner and your house is guaranteeing all that largess. If tomorrow a city employee retires, the city is 'freed' less than half of his or her salary to hire a replacement. Because they still have that platinum health care plan, and they never fully paid off the retirement plan.
Atop of all of this, most cities pay their basic employees MORE than the average earnings of the citizens of their town. You really have to search to find an 'average' income town which doesn't pay their employees more than 'average' income of the town.
It is this unmitigated looting that must be controlled, which will eventually lower property taxes. But until the first steps are taken, with salaries increased and ALL benefits eliminated, then even with 'radical' changes to employee contributions, etc, the problem simply returns in a short time.
Most cities are forbidden from carrying non-bonded debt - what the heck are retirement and lifetime health benefits other than non-bonded debt? What are these promises made when people are hired other than shackles upon future elected officials who are supposed to budget for the town? The only way forward is to cast off those shackles - end all city funded retirement plans, end all city funded health plans, end all paid vacations, paid days off, paid sick days. By all means, raise public employee salaries, though I strongly suggest capping it at no more than 1 1/2 times the average income of the citizens of the town. But even if it was limited to 3 times, there's not a city in America who wouldn't benefit from these changes, and immediately have a cash surplus which they can apply to real city problems, rather than bloated personnel costs.
A sales tax would also allow everyone who buys goods to pay for education, roads, etc., not just the property owners.
The two biggest evils in this country are the income tax and the property tax. Both allow the government to take property and money away from produtive people and give it to the unproductive.
Tax commercial property leave private residences alone.
property owners are the most likely(generally being the people with the best jobs)to be able to buy goods and service
So why are you arguing to tax property owners indirectly through a sales tax instead of directly. The value received is direct.
There are other ways to fund services, property owners are the most likely(generally being the people with the best jobs)to be able to buy goods and services, if the sales tax is at a level to pay for the services(roads, schools etc)needed for the community there is no need for a property tax.
And if the property tax is set high enough there is no need for a sales tax. What's your point? Local communities get considerably more from sales tax than they do from a property tax at this point anyway.
There is room for both types of taxes and they should be set according to who receives the benefits. Good schools are a key criteria for most families when relocating to a community. So clearly the school system influences the property values in a community.
Here is an interesting historical narrative of the history of property taxes. The Property Tax: Its Role and Significance in Funding State and Local Government Services
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