Social Security Office

Due to annoying family members I hit 3 court buildings in one day last week. To get into all of them involved emptying pockets and going through a metal detector, one of them I emptied my pockets into a locker and THEY kept the key. That’s how it works and if you don’t like it too bad. I’ve done jury duty in 2 of those buildings in the 90s, same drill back then. When the people in charge of a building decide it’s a security zone then it’s a security zone and you’re going to be searched to go in, and nobody has ever successfully challenged that as a rights violation.

No, security does not triumph over the law. In my state, New Mexico, the State Constitution says the following:

New Mexico Constitution, Art II, Sec. 6. [Right to bear arms.] No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons. No municipality or county shall regulate, in any way, an incident of the right to keep and bear arms.

This means that a no weapons, violators will be prosecuted sign on the courthouse is blatantly stating (a) that the the court does not respect the Constitution, and (b) therefore does not respect the law either.

Your state, Arizona, says the following:

AZ Constitution, Art 2, Section 26. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men.

and is likely at least a case of forgery,

13-2002. Forgery; classification A. A person commits forgery if, with intent to defraud, the person: 1. Falsely makes, completes or alters a written instrument; or 2. Knowingly possesses a forged instrument; or 3. Offers or presents, whether accepted or not, a forged instrument or one that contains false information. B. The possession of five or more forged instruments may give rise to an inference that the instruments are possessed with an intent to defraud. C. Forgery is a class 4 felony, except that if the forged instrument is used in connection with the purchase, lease or renting of a dwelling that is used as a drop house, it is a class 3 felony. For the purposes of this subsection, "drop house" means property that is used to facilitate smuggling pursuant to section 13-2319.

where written interment is defined as:

12. "Written instrument" means either: (a) Any paper, document or other instrument that contains written or printed matter or its equivalent. (b) Any token, stamp, seal, badge, trademark, graphical image, access device or other evidence or symbol of value, right, privilege or identification.

because other instrument includes signage.

Well then my recommendation is to go be a test case, sue them for unlawful search and seizure and see what happens. Of course we all know what’s going to happen, you’ll lose, because they aren’t trumping the law, they are APPLYING the law. That law does not mean what you’re trying to make it mean. It means you can own guns, and carry them in unregulated areas, but owners of buildings (which includes the government) are free to make areas gun free. Some states (your neighbor TX) require a specific notice be posted, but that’s the only functional limitation. Your space, your rules, people who don’t like it don’t have to come. It’s been very standard in this country for multiple decades for government buildings to limit who can and can’t be armed, and the federal government has generally been the most restrictive.

Here’s some reading, they’re called administrative searches:
http://www.regent.edu/acad/schlaw/student_life/studentorgs/lawreview/docs/issues/v5/5RegentULRev215.pdf

And they’re legal, and constitutional, though often times what they take during them isn’t usable as evidence, but they can still seize it, and most importantly they can still search you to bar it from the building.

Not always possible; consider courthouses where one may be compelled by law to go and, even though he has committed no crime, disarmed. [Jury-duty; you can be fined/jailed for ignoring/refusing summons.]

Yup. I'm thinking next time I'm called down for jury duty I'm going to raise enough of a ruckus over their unconstitutional procedures, that I'll probably end up in jail. It's not like they are going to pick me for a jury, since I can read.

Last week, some jerk tried to bomb a Social Security office in Arizona:

Some of us are not surprised by that.

Ummm...yes. That way people don’t sneak weapons into airplanes and fly them into skyscrapers.

I think metal detectors in certain public buildings might be appropriate. NOT xrays that reveal your body in graphic detail, and NO frisking or pat downs. That is an invasion of privacy and treats citizens like criminals being arrested. Those bother me quite a bit, but nothing like the idea of people being stopped and frisked on the street, and having their bags and cases inspected. How has that possibly been ruled legal?

Yup. I'm thinking next time I'm called down for jury duty I'm going to raise enough of a ruckus over their unconstitutional procedures, that I'll probably end up in jail. It's not like they are going to pick me for a jury, since I can read.

Free food, right?

See:

http://www.dhs.gov/topic/federal-building-security

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Federal_Protective_Service

My local SS office in Ft. Myers had a Glock-armed guard who kept us geezers from getting too rowdy so that we could hear our numbers called when we were up to see the staff.

I was surprised to see the Glock and I looked closely at his badge and it said “Federal Protective Service.”

This is NOT a “rent-a-cop” operation, IMO, and the officer I saw appeared to be extremely fit and likely former military, possibly a former Marine.

These officers appear to have 100% police powers on federal property and inside federal buildings.

Well then my recommendation is to go be a test case, sue them for unlawful search and seizure and see what happens.

I've thought about it.

Of course we all know what’s going to happen, you’ll lose, because they aren’t trumping the law, they are APPLYING the law.

No, they aren't; the NM constitution that I pointed out flatly prohibits any law from abridging the citizen's right to keep and bear arms for his own defense. So if there's a law on the books about it (which there isn't; I looked) it would be null and void according to the State's constitution.

That law does not mean what you’re trying to make it mean. It means you can own guns, and carry them in unregulated areas, but owners of buildings (which includes the government) are free to make areas gun free.

No; it says that there are limits to laws, and one is that there is no valid law which abridges the citizen's right to keep and bear arms.

Your space, your rules, people who don’t like it don’t have to come.

What do you think the Constitution is? It's the rules for the government! They are to be bound thereby, not exempt under words like rules or administration.

It’s been very standard in this country for multiple decades for government buildings to limit who can and can’t be armed, and the federal government has generally been the most restrictive.

And I showed you that my state's constitution prohibits such.

Here’s some reading, they’re called administrative searches
And they’re legal, and constitutional, though often times what they take during them isn’t usable as evidence, but they can still seize it, and most importantly they can still search you to bar it from the building.

They might be legal, but they are unlawful. (Huge difference between the two.)

Ummm...yes. That way people don’t sneak weapons into airplanes and fly them into skyscrapers.

How does granting special privilege and security to government agents stop people flying planes into skyscrapers? (The question was whether government agents deserve to have special protection/security.)

I had to go to the Social Security office in northern Virginia, Alexandria, before the state let me renew my drivers license. The building is old, cruddy and not all that clean. The clerks had an attitude. The parking is a nightmare. I think I was the only person in the waiting room born in this country. Lots of women with clusters of kids wearing burkas with their faces partially or completely hidden (the ones from Oman wore leather masks that covered their faces). Another crowd of people from Central America. And there is a big sign on the wall in several different scripts offering translation services for dozens of languages. Our immigration policies are allowing us to be ripped off and these parasites are sucking us dry.