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Fewer cops, less crime: MLive investigation finds Michigan safer even as police numbers decline
Mlive.com ^ | August 27, 2013 | John Barnes

Posted on 08/27/2013 4:55:22 PM PDT by cripplecreek

He was police officer of the year just months ago, at one of the state’s largest departments. Decorated. Heralded. One of the best. Then he was laid off.


Today, Brian Wilson does odd jobs to make ends meet. He works part-time one day a week at one of the state’s smallest departments.


“A lot of my awards … had to do with being proactive,” said the former Saginaw police officer. “My ability to do that was reduced significantly over the past year because I didn’t have as much back-up and I didn’t have anywhere near as much time on the road.”


Michigan is bleeding police officers. In the past decade, enough cops have been cut to equal the elimination of all Michigan State Police officers and the entire sworn force in Grand Rapids, the state’s second-largest city.


But there’s the conundrum, an MLive Media Group investigation found. Despite the decline, you have never been safer in Michigan from serious crimes in a decade.


(Excerpt) Read more at mlive.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: banglist; crime; guncontrol; guns; secondamendment; warriorcops
Seems that open and concealed carry are having a very clear effect. Something like 1 in 17 adult males are armed.
1 posted on 08/27/2013 4:55:22 PM PDT by cripplecreek
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To: Springman; cyclotic; netmilsmom; RatsDawg; PGalt; FreedomHammer; queenkathy; madison10; ...
It takes a while to get around to it but they finally admit that maybe more guns equals less crime.

Last month, 405,408 adults could lawfully carry concealed handguns. That’s up from 53,000 after the first year of Michigan’s shall-issue law.

That means one in 17 adults 21 or older is licensed to carry. Countless more people have guns for sport and protection in their homes.


Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Michigan legislative action thread
2 posted on 08/27/2013 4:59:46 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: marktwain

may be of interest.


3 posted on 08/27/2013 5:00:17 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

Maybe the cops were committing a lot of the crimes?


4 posted on 08/27/2013 5:13:14 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Who knew that one day professional wrestling would be less fake than professional journalism?)
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To: cripplecreek

An armed society is a polite society.


5 posted on 08/27/2013 5:17:03 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves Month")
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To: cripplecreek

Michigan recognizes GA’s CCW license, so I was able to carry for the first time while visiting the inlaws this summer.


6 posted on 08/27/2013 5:22:00 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

The might give you a hassle in Ann Arbor or Kzoo but I’m betting they wouldn’t give you much trouble for carrying in Detroit.


7 posted on 08/27/2013 5:29:46 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek
Two things. One is that more people are carrying. The second is what I call the Indiana Jones syndrome or “I ain't got time for this.”

When your hours have been cut, your spouse lost her job, Junior is moving back into your basement and you're upside down on your mortgage you become the kind of person that it is not safe to mess with.

The population is not fat, dumb and happy. They are down right cranky.

8 posted on 08/27/2013 5:30:56 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Revenge is a dish best served with pinto beans and muffins)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
The population is not fat, dumb and happy. They are down right cranky.

I agree. People are friendly enough but they aren't real accepting of being screwed with.
9 posted on 08/27/2013 5:37:12 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
Maybe instead of laying off the police officers who get these awards we could get away from the seniority based layoffs and have some kind off merit based retention system.

Well heck no the unions don't care about that at all. Let the people who pay their salary suffer for cutting the budget.

10 posted on 08/27/2013 5:37:27 PM PDT by jimpick
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To: cripplecreek

Of course more guns are part of the answer, probably most of it. I’d also argue that police are generally useless in preventing crime, and don’t have much impact at all. That’s not their role. They’re for the protection of the government and for arresting people after a crime has been committed. And they also generate revenue although in most places not enough to pay their keep.


11 posted on 08/27/2013 5:38:11 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Power disintegrates when people withdraw their obedience and support)
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Only Five Days until
September.

Please donate today.

12 posted on 08/27/2013 5:42:34 PM PDT by RedMDer (http://www.dontfundobamacare.com/)
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To: cripplecreek

“I agree. People are friendly enough but they aren’t real accepting of being screwed with.”

Sounds like it’s becoming Texas of the north.

Our coon-ass cousins next door are also known for that trait.

Great people in Louisiana, just don’t get them mad.


13 posted on 08/27/2013 5:53:13 PM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: cripplecreek

[sincerity, less than average] I’m surprised the politicians didn’t authorize pay cuts for themselves to keep more law enforcement officers on the job. [/sincerity]


14 posted on 08/27/2013 5:54:29 PM PDT by Standing Wolf (No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.)
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To: IMR 4350

We’re swamp people too.


15 posted on 08/27/2013 5:56:33 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: RKBA Democrat; All

Police are there to arrest people after the fact, to put people in Jail, enforce probation, do all the things the criminal justice system needs enforcers for.

John Lott’s research shows that the Criminal Justice sytem, as a whole, deters crime about as much as armed citizens do.

In fact, the two reinforce and support each other (in a sane society, which is still most of the U.S.)


16 posted on 08/27/2013 6:06:27 PM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: cripplecreek

What are the chances that crime is going down (partially) because the government is doing the robbing for the crooks. Hence as long as the gubmint is gibbin you a Bama phone and hundreds dollas from da Bama stash fo yo kids den you don’t gots to go robbin. See welfare works... at least for the lazier criminals. The more industrious ones still have to go out and be crooks for a (better) living.


17 posted on 08/27/2013 6:11:47 PM PDT by Rudolphus (Tagline? I don't need no steenkin' tagline.)
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To: marktwain

“Police are there to arrest people after the fact, to put people in Jail, enforce probation, do all the things the criminal justice system needs enforcers for.”

Roles that can be performed with far, far fewer police than we currently have.

“John Lott’s research shows that the Criminal Justice sytem, as a whole, deters crime about as much as armed citizens do.”

Keep in mind Dr. Lott’s research was for the most part done many years ago. I wonder if with the long term increase in those carrying has actually shifted it from armed citizens being the predominant deterrent.

Keep in mind that police departments are a fairly recent innovation. They didn’t become popular until the mid to late 19th century.

“In fact, the two reinforce and support each other (in a sane society, which is still most of the U.S.)”

I think that’s becoming less true. Again, I wonder if there has been in shift in armed citizens being the predominant deterrent. Also, there is an increasing level of skepticism in the citizenry towards police. People are less likely to call the police (as this article alludes to). I think that many people, including myself, would happily have lower taxes and fewer police.


18 posted on 08/27/2013 6:17:22 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Power disintegrates when people withdraw their obedience and support)
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To: RKBA Democrat
I think that many people, including myself, would happily have lower taxes and fewer police.

Lower taxes also leads to job creation which means jobs for former cops and jobs that help keep people out of trouble.
19 posted on 08/27/2013 6:24:51 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: RedMDer
It's global warming. Too hot to go outside and commit a crime, just lay here and watch Oprha.
Maybe there is racial peace now that we have a half black president?

Everywhere else where you arm the citizens, the crime rate goes down. Why not here?

Also the whites have fled Detroit and the inner cities, took their money and went to Arkansas, Alabama, anywhere but a black city. Who you going to rob now that whites have left and those who are here are packing?

Here's another clue; you didn't need all those cops. Those are left are hustling not sleeping in their cops. A little fear is a great motivator.

20 posted on 08/27/2013 6:39:37 PM PDT by Kozy (Calling Al Gore)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“Maybe the cops were committing a lot of the crimes?”

Here in NJ we’ve laid off a lot of cops over the past few years, and things aren’t much different (except our property taxes have stabilized).


21 posted on 08/27/2013 6:42:42 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: cripplecreek

I read in the WSJ last year that nationally there are half the number of fires and twice the number of paid firefighters as 25 yrs ago.


22 posted on 08/27/2013 6:48:10 PM PDT by nascarnation (Democrats control the Presidency, Senate, and Media. It's an uphill climb....)
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To: cripplecreek

I Open Carry as much as I can in Charlevoix. I have not had any interactions with any LEO’s in the area; whose prime purpose is to write up DUI’s. We have a saying in Charlevoix:
“Come here on Vacation, Go Home on Probation”.
Also, I Open Carry to the Range, and I had one young guy, who I know, ask if I was gong out to practice at the Range.
Additionally, no interactions with people who didn’t know
that I was Carrying Concealed.


23 posted on 08/28/2013 9:14:45 AM PDT by gigster (Cogito, Ergo, Ronaldus Magnus Conservatus)
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To: gigster

I like both open and concealed carry.

Concealed keeps em wonderin and open reminds em in case they forget.


24 posted on 08/28/2013 9:16:22 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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