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Pope bows for Muslim Queen Rania of Jordan in latest display of breaking with tradition
Daily Mail ^ | August 31, 2013 | John Hutchinson

Posted on 09/01/2013 7:03:45 AM PDT by NotYourAverageDhimmi

The Pope has once again shown his willingness to break with tradition by bowing to Muslim royal Queen Rania of Jordan.

As leader of the world's 1.2billion-strong Catholic community, protocol usually dictates that visitors bow to him when they meet him at the Vatican.

But when Rania came to the Holy See with her husband King Abdullah II on Thursday, he inverted that formality by lowering his head to her.

He made no discernible bow toward her husband, the king. The Jordanian royals were leaving following a private audience with the pope in his library.

'Francis behaves as he did before he became pope and is not interested in protocol', a senior Vatican official told the Daily Telegraph.

Up until the 19th century, those meeting the pope stoop to kiss his slippers and, to this day, the tradition remains that all visitors, including women, bow to him, the official said.

The surprise move came after Pope Francis showed he is well in touch with what's popular in society today by posing for a 'selfie' with young Italian pilgrims in St Peter's Basilica, Vatican City.


(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bow; hashemites; hottie; jordan; kingabdullahii; muslimwomen; muslimworld; popefrancis; queenrania; romancatholicism; royals; uglybeeotch
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1 posted on 09/01/2013 7:03:46 AM PDT by NotYourAverageDhimmi
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

what an ass

and I am Catholic

I am not a fan of this nut case


2 posted on 09/01/2013 7:04:27 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

If there were ever muslims in name only its Abdulla and Rania.


3 posted on 09/01/2013 7:06:14 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: yldstrk

I am not Catholic, but I see no reason for the Pope to be making such submissive gestures to Islamic royalty—which are representative of Islam in general. It really sets a very bad precedent.


4 posted on 09/01/2013 7:06:40 AM PDT by rbg81
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

He’s a Jesuit, I’m not surprised.

Just wait, the best is yet to come. s/


5 posted on 09/01/2013 7:07:02 AM PDT by alice_in_bubbaland (When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes mandatory- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

Anyone for the last pope theory?


6 posted on 09/01/2013 7:07:39 AM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like it)
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi; MeganC
I know what you are all thinking......

Just take it from someone who knows, Middle Eastern Wives are the best wives, I should know ;)

Oh Yeah, just block out that putz Gordon Brown.

7 posted on 09/01/2013 7:08:28 AM PDT by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.-Sarah Palin)
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To: cripplecreek
If there were ever muslims in name only its Abdulla and Rania.

True.

Plus Rania is clearly the hottest spouse of a head of state.


8 posted on 09/01/2013 7:11:46 AM PDT by NotYourAverageDhimmi
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

Not guilty (oops, wrong thread).


9 posted on 09/01/2013 7:13:29 AM PDT by MuttTheHoople (Nothing is more savage and brutal than justifiably angry Americans. Don’t believe me? Ask the Germa)
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/what-should-we-make-of-pope-francis-bowing-when-greeting-people/

Another perspective than the ‘Daily Mail.’

FReegards


10 posted on 09/01/2013 7:19:02 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: yldstrk

For a man who claims to be vicar (in place of) Christ, this is abominable.

So Catholics confess their sins to a man who bows to islamics????


11 posted on 09/01/2013 7:22:13 AM PDT by Shimmer1 (Arnold, Arnold, Arnold Rimmer, without him life would be much grimmer.....)
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

I am curious, Alice - why do you say that?


12 posted on 09/01/2013 7:22:30 AM PDT by Ken522
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

I am very sad for Jordan. Another ally who trusted us and now they are going to face the Obama funded ‘Arab Spring’ next. There are Arab countries who wish us no wrong. Jordan is one of them.


13 posted on 09/01/2013 7:24:05 AM PDT by originalbuckeye (Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy)
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

I know Abdulla stirred things up a few years back when he decreed that men who commit honor killings would be charged with murder.


14 posted on 09/01/2013 7:29:28 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

Jesuits are the enforcers of Catholic doctrine. Francis’ gestures would be contradictory to their history. Jesuits are not known to be pussies but sometimes arrogant.

As a Catholic, I have a real problem with Francis’ gesture. Especially since women are expected to cover their heads when in the Vatican and kiss the pope’s ring. Women visitors do not expect the pope to bow to them.


15 posted on 09/01/2013 7:29:40 AM PDT by NoKoolAidforMe (I'm clinging to my God and my guns. You can keep the change.)
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To: yldstrk; NotYourAverageDhimmi
I think you're missing the big picture. There are hundreds of thousands of Christians in Syria--- mostly from the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Chaldeans --- who are there because they were pushed out of Iraq by the chaotic aftermath of our failed Iraq War. Syria itself --- even without the Iraqi refugees --- is about 10% Christian.

If they get pushed out of Syria by the civil war, the only place they can go in the region will probably be Jordan, which (without refugees) is 6% Christian (majority Greek Orthodox, but some Greek and Roman Catholics, Syrian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, and Protestant denominations).

The Pope is responsible to the six Eastern Catholic patriarchs, plus the rest of these hard-pressed Faithful of the ancient Churches, to provide for their safety and well-being as best he can.

Why's he meeting the the royals of Jordan? Because he is trying to find diplomatic, political, as well as physical support for the Christian people of the Middle East who are faced with extermination.

Is that a good enough reason for you?

As to the propriety of the bowing: well, there's St. Paul:

Romans 13:6-8
Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

And remember, Paul was writing to and about the Romans; and the Roman Empire proved itself willing, through sporadic persecutions over a period of 300 years, to burn, crucify, and cut the heads off of Christians.

So I reckon the Pope was both offering the due diplomatic honors, plus the spontaneity of love --- hasn't anybody commented on the fact that he was bowing to a woman? You know, that subset of the human species whom the Muslims customarily treat like shi'ite?

I guess love in Christ --- a pastor's love --- is so rare, some don't even recognize it when they see it.

But some do.

16 posted on 09/01/2013 7:35:32 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Reconciling all things to Himself, on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“Why’s he meeting the the royals of Jordan? Because he is trying to find diplomatic, political, as well as physical support for the Christian people of the Middle East who are faced with extermination.”—interesting theory, maybe even you are right, I don’t know.

I do not like this Pope. Am I required to? I think he opens his trap and says stupid stuff and is real impressed with himself and how “humble” he is

Look Rainya is not Mother Mary. I have no problem with him bowing to Mother Mary.


17 posted on 09/01/2013 7:41:07 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Shimmer1

shimmer, you are being obtuse

Catholics have priests as confessors who intercede with God for them—it’s a sacrament, which you as a non-Catholic wouldn’t understand (although you should if you really want a relationship with God)

Or you can confess to God on your own

no one gets to confess to the Pope


18 posted on 09/01/2013 7:43:46 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Very good post, thank you.

Not that it will convince already hardened hearts, but it certainly helped me. Speaking for myself, I forgot about the Christian perspective you pointed out here.

It’s all too easy, with the overbearing, dominant Muslim presence there, to forget there are still Christians to consider in the Middle East. The Pope (and the Vatican) can’t simply forget about them in favor of political (or even traditional) expediency.


19 posted on 09/01/2013 7:44:16 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Ummh, I didn’t say anything negative about the Pope’s actions.


20 posted on 09/01/2013 7:44:36 AM PDT by NotYourAverageDhimmi
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To: Shimmer1

I am not big on the pope bowing before any earthly person, but I kind of like the idea of the leader of the world’s Christians showing such respect for a Muslim woman when the Muslim world treats women like trash. Chivalry is a Christian thing.


21 posted on 09/01/2013 7:45:02 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

not just ‘breaking tradition’ but in a very real way this pope is behaving in a blasphemous manner.


22 posted on 09/01/2013 7:47:05 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

How come their kids look like Jews?


23 posted on 09/01/2013 7:48:17 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

Is this a joke?


24 posted on 09/01/2013 7:48:19 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

re: “ So I reckon the Pope was both offering the due diplomatic honors, plus the spontaneity of love -— hasn’t anybody commented on the fact that he was bowing to a woman? You know, that subset of the human species whom the Muslims customarily treat like shi’ite?

I guess love in Christ -— a pastor’s love -— is so rare, some don’t even recognize it when they see it.”

I’m not Catholic, but I think I agree with your take on this.

The Pope is not a governmental “head of state”. He is a spiritual leader and a witness for Christ. How is it “bowing to satan” (as some have said) if he shows humility on behalf of Christ and as a witness for Christ’s love to this woman?

I also highly agree with you that it is significant that he showed the humility to a woman, but not to the male head of state - that is truly radical in the middle eastern mindset. Yes, she is “royalty”, but she’s still a woman.

I may have some other issues with this Pope, but in this instance, I do not.


25 posted on 09/01/2013 7:49:29 AM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I agree. After all th prince mentality by earlier popes, this is refreshing


26 posted on 09/01/2013 7:50:01 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws - Tacituss)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

In this case I think he was simply bowing to a queen regardless of the fact that she’s marginally muslim.


27 posted on 09/01/2013 8:00:49 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

“I agree. After all th prince mentality by earlier popes, this is refreshing”

No it isn’t. This Pope is demeaning his office. He is taking the dignity out of it. The less he acts with dignity, the less others will treat him and the Office of the Pope with dignity. This will not bode well in the future when heads of State have no respect for this Pope or the Vatican when he himself treats his position in such a cavelier manner.


28 posted on 09/01/2013 8:05:11 AM PDT by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

Francis is pathetic. First he brings Islam into an Easter ceremony, then he visits illegal alien Muslim invaders on an Italian island - expressing solidarity with them; and now he bows to a Muslim woman and wife to the alleged descendant of Mohammed. Is this the end times?


29 posted on 09/01/2013 8:10:37 AM PDT by montag813 (NO AMNESTY * ENFORCE THE LAW * http://StandWithArizona.com)
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3060943/posts


30 posted on 09/01/2013 8:15:58 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's no coincidence that some "conservatives" echo the hard left.)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

The Pope most certainly is a Head of State. He is the head of the Vatican City State and the Holy See.

He is really clueless about protocol and doesn’t seem to want to learn. The protocol is in place for a reason, to make things go smoothly (just like manners). Those who shun manners and protocol are inviting confusion and uncertainty. When no one knows - or cares - about the rules of polite society, the rules eventually are forgotten and the end result is chaos. Hence, misunderstandings (or worse) result from hurt feelings, since being disrespected is unbearable for most people.

In his concern for showing respect to one individual, he has scandalized many of his flock. (Which he seems to do on a weekly basis.)


31 posted on 09/01/2013 8:16:19 AM PDT by nanetteclaret (Unreconstructed Catholic Texan)
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi
Pope bows for Muslim Queen

Just like O'Bomber, he bends over for the moslems.

32 posted on 09/01/2013 8:16:46 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves Month")
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

What else do you think the Pope will do?


33 posted on 09/01/2013 8:23:27 AM PDT by tbw2
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

“He made no discernible bow toward her husband, the king.”
If he bowed because he was greeting a woman, not so bad, but still stupid.
Enough with the humility, Holy Father!


34 posted on 09/01/2013 8:34:35 AM PDT by I want the USA back
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi; lightman

Bowing to any subhuman muslim/islamist filth.
Sad and pathetic.
Shame on you, Pope.


35 posted on 09/01/2013 8:39:35 AM PDT by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
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To: nanetteclaret

re: “The Pope most certainly is a Head of State. He is the head of the Vatican City State and the Holy See.”

Nanetteclaret, I stand corrected regarding the Pope being a “Head of State”.

However, and please understand, I’m not meaning to argue and I have no hostile intent. I’m just looking at the Pope as Christian leader. As I said before, I am NOT Catholic, in fact the media would describe me as a “fundamentalist Baptist”, and, I do NOT believe in papal infallibility and all that.

So, even though the Pope is a head of state, it is not, in my opinion, a typical political entity. And, which kingdom is to have more influence on a Christian, the political establishments of men, or, the Kingdom of God? Which Kingdom should have priority on the Pope?

I doubt we will agree on this, but I still think that showing humility in this case is not necessarily a bad thing. Jesus shocked His disciples when He had a conversation with a hated Samaritan woman in the “Woman at the well” story. I’m not equating the Pope with Jesus, just pointing out that often Christianity is at odds with tradition and taboos.

Again, I’m not meaning to argue, and you may be absolutely correct in the end. It was just a thought, maybe a bad one, but just a thought all the same.


36 posted on 09/01/2013 8:47:19 AM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: montag813; Mrs. Don-o

>>Francis is pathetic. First he brings Islam into an Easter ceremony, then he visits illegal alien Muslim invaders on an Italian island - expressing solidarity with them; and now he bows to a Muslim woman and wife to the alleged descendant of Mohammed. Is this the end times?<<

I fully agree with Mrs. Don-o’s position that he is hoping for Jordanian support and perhaps Pope Francis could be showing the world that Catholics and Muslims can get along just fine which could lead to more Muslims converting to Christianity.

The fact that he didn’t show any bowing to the husband speaks loudly, IMO.


37 posted on 09/01/2013 8:56:08 AM PDT by B4Ranch (AGENDA: Grinding America Down ----- http://vimeo.com/63749370)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

Please re-read my whole post, re: the purpose of protocol.

Besides this one incident, the Pope has scandalized the faithful on many occasions, and he’s only been Pope for a few months! There is a difference between true humility and false humility. True humility thinks of the other person and false humility thinks only of itself. Sometimes I get the feeling that the Pope’s “humility” is for the cameras only and not for the faithful. Since the media seem to be so infatuated with him, I would say he is definitely on the wrong side.

Jesus told us not to be surprised when the world hates us, because it hated Him. The world does not seem to hate this Pope; that tells me something, loud and clear!


38 posted on 09/01/2013 9:04:55 AM PDT by nanetteclaret (Unreconstructed Catholic Texan)
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To: nanetteclaret
....He is really clueless about protocol and doesn’t seem to want to learn. The protocol is in place for a reason, to make things go smoothly (just like manners)....

Just so. By bowing to Queen Raina, a lovely and admirably woman no doubt, Pope Francis has now established a precedent. Certainly, all popes must now bow to the wives of foreign dignitaries who are granted the privilege of a private audience. To refrain from doing so will be a grave insult. Can you imagine how the Queen of Spain, Catholic for twenty generations or more would react if the pope did not bow to her when he bowed to a Mohammedan in his own private chambers. I’m afraid Francis is either a fool or a nave.

39 posted on 09/01/2013 9:05:06 AM PDT by irish_links
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To: irish_links

or both


40 posted on 09/01/2013 9:07:25 AM PDT by nanetteclaret (Unreconstructed Catholic Texan)
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

Extremely unfortunate gesture. Couldn’t be worse guidance to the faithful.


41 posted on 09/01/2013 9:10:55 AM PDT by faithhopecharity (E)
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To: irish_links
or a nave.

He is part of a church after all.

42 posted on 09/01/2013 9:29:55 AM PDT by xone
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To: yldstrk

What “stupid stuff” has he specifically said?


43 posted on 09/01/2013 9:30:35 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: Nifster

“...this pope (sic) is behaving in a blasphemous manner.”

_________________________

How? How do you define “blasphemy?”


44 posted on 09/01/2013 9:34:06 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: B4Ranch; montag813; Mrs. Don-o

I also agree with Mrs. Don-o’s fine analysis. Additionally, I happen to think that this Pope’s background has had a huge influence as well. He was raised in an area of Argentina in the days when people were far more formal (in many cases...they still are). It has been part of the culture there for a very long time. I am sure that his bow was showing deference for her position as well as demonstrating the respect that should be given to women.

I see a great deal of criticism of this Pope from people who don’t seem the least bit Christian in their opinions...whether they call themselves liberal or conservative...or even (sadly) Catholic.


45 posted on 09/01/2013 9:45:27 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi
No, I didn't think you did. I had just pinged you because you were previously part of this discussion with yldstrk.

Thanks for posting this, by the way.

46 posted on 09/01/2013 9:49:29 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Reconciling all things to Himself, on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross.")
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To: yldstrk; FourtySeven
No, yldstrk, you don't "have to" "like" Pope Francis, because liking is a feeling and we generally can't command our feelings. However, you are obliged to treat him --- and everyone ---justly. In Pope Francis' case we are in danger of judging him principally on the basis of the framing, captioning and narrative-template imposed on him by the EneMedia, who are are, at best, stupidly loose with the facts, and at worst twisting everything toward some priority of their own (generally found below the waist.)

In this case, also, you've got a couple hundred thousand, maybe as many as a million uprooted, violently exiled Middle Eastern Christians looking desperately for an ally and a safe haven, and the Pope using diplomacy to scramble for their sheer survival.

All this the EneMedia ignores as it points and tweets, "Pope bows to Arab Queen!" "Oh, that protocol-tweaking Frankie!" "Bet he kisses the next one --- if she's as hot as this one."

People react as if the publicity around the pope is generated, framed and labeled by him personally --- him and his corps of press-handlers --- when actually, all the initiative, and all the molding and pinching, comes from AP, Reuters, and in this case the Daily Mail, a British tabloid, fer Pete's sake.

As an example, I'm sure they cover Kate, the Duchess of Cambridge, as a darling and perfectly normal young mum with an adorable baby; but if she falls out of favor, every word out of her mouth will abruptly start sounding like blue-blooded bitchery, her photos will inexplicably start revealing moles and jowls, and she'll eventually be morphed into a British Paula Deen.

My advice: don't form opinions bases on media memes.

And ---especially for your fellow Christians --- always, always give the presumption of innocence and the benefit of the doubt.

47 posted on 09/01/2013 10:06:24 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Reconciling all things to Himself, on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross.")
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

I came to the Faith as an adult in 2008, and what I know
of history and rules could fit in a thimble. John Paul II
and my immense admiration of him really brought me to the Church. I greatly admired and was inspired by Benedict as well.

I cannot put my finger on it, but I just do not feel much
of anything, good or bad really, toward Francis, except an
ill-defined sense of dread. I feel disappointed, but am willing to wait and see.


48 posted on 09/01/2013 10:06:33 AM PDT by americas.best.days... ( I think we can now say that they are behind us.)
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To: rusty schucklefurd

Thank you, rusty. He’s really acting exactly like he did for all those years in Buenos Aires: as Padre Jorge, the bishop in the raincoat, who quietly gave his seat to a tired abuela on a city bus.


49 posted on 09/01/2013 10:12:46 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Reconciling all things to Himself, on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross.")
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To: NotYourAverageDhimmi

meh....much ado about nothing.

More MSM media stroking the fires of anti-Catholicism.


50 posted on 09/01/2013 10:13:53 AM PDT by exPBRrat
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