Verdict: Catholic public school allowed to refuse muslim student [Germany]

DER SPIEGEL / Spiegel Online ^ | September 4th, 2013 | jdl/fln

[wolf78]

There have been lots of arguments about this case: A muslim boy wanted to attend a catholic primary school, but skip religious education. The principal refused, the parents sued. Now an appeals court has reached a verdict.

Does a muslim boy have to attend religious education at a catholic school? And if he refuses: Does the school have to accept him anyway? Those questions caused great controversy in Paderborn. Now the OVG (Oberverwaltungsgericht) court in Muenster has decided: The catholic Bonifazius school in Paderborn, Northrine-Westfalia is allowed to refuse the student. No further appeals are possible.

When the parents wanted to enroll their son as well, they asked that he be excused from catholic religious education [...].

The enrollment papers explicitly contained the request for the children to receive religious education and attend (school) mass. The parents refused to sign, the principal refused admission, which led to the lawsuit.

[...]

Confessional state schools can still be found in Northrhine-Westfalia and Lower Saxony. In NRW one third of almost 3,000 primary schools is still confessional in nature, in 75 towns and counties there is no alternative [to christian schools] for parents and children. However, in Paderborn and other [municipalities] the number of christian students is decreasing. [...]

Still the judges rejected the parents' claims. A confessional school's principal has the right to make participation in religious education and services a prerequisite for accepting students of different faiths, the court said. A confessional school doesn't lose its status when the percentage of catholic students is shrinking. For that the community running the school has to officially change the school type [the legal framework under which it operates].

[wolf78]

This is what can happen when there is no separation of church and state. Some might find this interesting.

[Gene Eric]

>> This is what can happen when there is no separation of church and state.

What is “this”?

[pepsionice]

In Germany, there are public and private schools. Public schools are funded via the government....private schools are generally funded by the parents, the church, or some local donation situation.

What you tend to find...especially the further south you go in Germany....more Catholic-run private schools...to such a degree that most kids in some smaller towns...only go to the Catholic private school. So basically, you don’t have enough kids from the town...to make a public school practical or functional.

In this case...the Islamic parents were willing to accept the Catholic schooling option. Their only request? They wanted the mandated religious class that all German schools offer....to be declined for their kid.

Speaking to the religious class instruction....it’s basically an ethics class for about forty-percent of the instruction. The remainder of the class runs through explanations of various groups (to include Buddhists, etc). So you as a kid after a year of this...have some ethical indoctrination and some understanding of the various religious groups that exist in the world. No, they aren’t recruiting anyone to join anything....they just want you to grasp why this group is this way and that group another way.

So the court stood up and basically that you can’t pick and chose like a menu-option for this religious class. The parents? They are basically stuck. They can move to another state, and maybe get a different school ruling...but in this state....it’s a strict direction on acceptance.

As for separation of church and state....it’s pretty much the general plan in Germany...until you come to Bavaria. Most folks in Bavaria would be viewed as conservative in nature, not likely liberal thinkers, and give a prayer to God on a daily basis.

[Gaffer]

The point of this boy, or any Muslim incursion, is to use an adopted country’s institutions, public sentiment and laws against them to bring the entire structure down through a million little cuts at the system.

It’s being done here with women getting jobs (without Hijabs) and then wearing them when they start to work. It’s being done here with groups of Muslims causing commotions (legal nonthreatening of course) at airports, in planes, in public, etc.

It’s being done here with Muslim prisoners suing for beards, prayer rugs. It’s being done here with Muslims suing Universities for set aside prayer areas.

It’s being done here ubiquitously.

You can thank organizations like CAIR (Al Qaeda America), ACLU and the like. Their goal is to bring us to our knees using our own laws and liberal judges to do it.

[sr4402]

A similar thing will be happening shortly in the US.

A homosexual married couple will come to a Catholic School and ask that their son not have a religious education. The school refuses (as it is a religious school) and is taken to court (and probably gets death threats).

A Progressive/Liberal Judge agrees with the couple and religious freedoms are destroyed in the United States.

Brave new world, Huh?

[wolf78]

Sorry, that was meant to be ironic. I certainly do agree with the ruling. In the broader context it’s about the cultural differences between Germany and the US.

[Gene Eric]

Thanks. I was a bit confused.

[NavVet]

NRW is not Bavaria. The kids had other options locally, they just preferred the academics of the Catholic school.

[NavVet]

This decision would be consistent with the “free exercise” clause of our own constitution. Sadly, thanks to the left, most aren’t aware of its existence.

[cumbo78]

I teach in an all boys Catholic HS in NYC. We have many Muslim students who take the same religion classes as any other student. In fact, its probably the biggest condemnation of the NYC Public School system that you’ll ever see; the fact that Muslim parents will send their sons to a Catholic school because they know they’ll get an education.

[Ready4Freddy]

Correct. Paderborn is a city of ~150,000

[freedom46and2]

Both Germany and Italy are way, way WAY ahead of the curve relative to the US and for that matter the UK too on this. Even the French are more alert, granted it took years of obscene riots and massive growth of blatantly hostile no go zones for it to happen.

[wolf78]

A similar thing will be happening shortly in the US.

A homosexual married couple will come to a Catholic School and ask that their son not have a religious education. The school refuses (as it is a religious school) and is taken to court (and probably gets death threats).

Yeah, but the ironic twist is that in this case it's a state-run public school. Now imagine that in the US ;).

[wolf78]

NRW is not Bavaria. The kids had other options locally, they just preferred the academics of the Catholic school.

Correct. As I understand it, it was that and that the school was also just down the street from them.

[Buckeye Battle Cry]

It’s a central tenet of social jihad - if you do not defend it, the muzzies will take it. If we do not defend the right of parochial schools to not allow muzzies into the student body they will take over and convert parochial schools.

It’s the same with 9/11. If WE do not defend it, the muzzies will take it over and convert it into a day of celebration for a victory of the Great Satan. Million Muslim March anyone?

[Petrosius]

There is another solution:

[NVDave]

I don’t see it thus.

The Catholic school is entitled to run their program as they see fit. It is, after all, a Catholic school. They’re not making claims to be secular, protestant, Jewish, or Islamic. They’re Catholic.

As such, their students are put through all of their programmed curriculum, not an ala carte menu of instruction.

If the Saracens want to go to a school and not engage in Catholic religious teaching, then perhaps they should go to a non-Catholic school.

If there isn’t a school to their liking, then maybe the Saracens should go back to Dar al-Islam and leave those of us living in the civilized world alone.

[pluvmantelo]

The al Cloward-bin Piven stategy.