Skip to comments.Ryan Deal Limits Senate GOPís Power to Block Tax Increases
Posted on 12/11/2013 6:54:47 PM PST by Mount Athos
Senate Republicans scrubbing the Ryan-Murray budget deal have come across a little-noticed provision that will limit the GOPs ability to block tax increases in future years.
The bill includes language from the Senate Democrats budget to void a budget point of order against replacing the sequester cuts with tax increases.
The process is quite complicated, but in practice it grants Harry Reid the authority to send tax increases to the House with a bare majority, rather than the 60 vote threshold that would be required under the point of order.
The provision has angered key Republican Senators. Reeling from Harry Reids unprecedented use of the nuclear option to end the filibuster on presidential nominations, they are incredulous that Paul Ryan would have backed another limit to their power.
This is an appalling power grab that should never have been allowed to be in a final agreement. Its essentially the nuclear option part two, eroding minority rights in the Senate even further. Harry Reid must be very happy, a Senate GOP aide says.
A House aide says Reid can send tax bills to the House all he wants, since they will never fly in the lower chamber. House Republicans would never approve a tax increase, he says.
While the point is true, the change will likely give Reid a potent political cudgel with which to hit Republicans over, since passage of a bill can put pressure on the other chamber to follow suit.
In the Ryan-Murray bill, the change is found on 17-18 in the legislative text, where the bill sets up a deficit neutral reserve fund and incorporates 57 individual sections of the Senate Democrats budget as having force and effect.
These provisions are a big loophole for Paygo rules that give senators the authority to raise a point of order on spending and tax bills, setting a 60 vote threshold. There is a detailed explanation for the process in this 2009 document from then-Senator Judd Greggs staff when he was Budget Committee ranking member.
Although the (current) Senate rules generally require 60 votes for passage of a bill, a bill can be amended after cloture has been achieved. In the case of the fall shutdown fight, Republicans helped provide the 60 votes to obtain cloture on the CR, after which Reid took out the defunding Obamacare provision and passed the bill with a bare majority.
Under normal rules, even after cloture had been achieved, any amendment would still be subject to a point of order and 60 vote threshold if it pays for spending increases by raising taxes. The Ryan-Murray deal waives that point of order in many cases, prompting the fear that Reid will use it to put political pressure on the House to replace the sequester with new taxes.
You can never trust a TARPer.
This is the other side of the coin. The tax increases that WILL come to pay for this spending.
In 2012, both the top and the bottom of the ticket were Big Government losers.
By all rights, 2014 should be a big -- big -- year for the GOP. But why bother? I'll do my bit in the primaries, but when Nov comes around, I will not be supporting any Liberals, even if they are "the lesser of two evils".
Ryan is a tool hungry for attention. He’d serve anyone willing to stroke his ego and satisfy his desire to author the greatest economic plan ever known to mankind.
Maybe the GOP should take the Senate back 2015 and change the rules to pass tax CUTS on a simple majority.
Not much is passing in House after this.
I am beginning to build a real dislike for Ryan.
He appears to be selling us out a little at a time.
Of course I wouldn’t trust pat Murray as far as I could toss her.
Obama must have some kind of juicy file on Ryan. He’s turned into a Fabian stooge.
The “deal” includes tax hikes, like a 124% security “fee” on airline tickets
If they want me to vote for evil then I will do it right!
That’s what I’m thinking.
The deal is a total betrayal, and doesn’t even show the slightest hint of conservative principle.
How is it that Harry Reid would be sending tax increases to the House anyway. All revenues are supposed to start in the House.
Gawk I wish someone thought it mattered!
Ryan is naive.
Getting your clock cleaned by somebody like Rimshot Joe Biden during a debate would really mess up your brain. Ryan seems to have never recovered.
Let the TEA Party primary him.
When Dems passed the seatbelt law here they promised not to let the police pull people over for it.
Well 15 years later they bought police night vision to catch us not wearing them in the dark.
Yeah, that was our first clue.
Ryan isn’t stupid. He’s a fraud.
he was already dead to me, he can’t be any more dead.
In fact, WHEN is the last time the democrats pissed off their liberal base for NO reason whatsoever?
Only a republican can be so stupid.
Anger the base, get nothing in return, don't attract ANY votes from democrats, and finally keep spending $ we just don't have.
Yeah, that's REALLY smart politics.
Forgot to add, after we've screwed over the base, attack them like nobody's business.
Then ask for them to vote for you.
See I think this is beyond stupidity, something else has be going on.
He was supposedly to be one of the great hopes to represent conservative ideology. Instead he is at the forefront of selling out conservativism.
That’s not idiocy. That’s something else.
>> I’ll do my bit in the primaries, but when Nov comes around, I will not be supporting any Liberals, even if they are “the lesser of two evils”.
I’m coming around to that point of view.
I held my nose in ‘08 and ‘12 and pulled the (R) lever.
I’ve reached my breaking point though. From now on I’m refusing to vote for the douchebag vs. the crap sandwich (South Park reference). Instead I’ll just Galt out and take personal defense measures to improve my chances of survival regardless of which big government party carries the election — Democlicans or Republicrats.
(And for what it’s worth, the Libertarians ain’t it, either.)
I don’t think Ryan is trying to sell out.
The issue is that when you deal with Democrats moving to the so called middle it seems to always be a journey to the left.
We have a particularly brazen and almost criminal party in power now, and they are full of themselves and won’t back down an inch.
IMO if it is a bad deal then we need to push to block a new turd, and though I would not support Ryan for anything much I think he thought he was doing good.
>> Remember when some freepers were all gooey over him being the vp nominee?
I confess I do.
Older now, and wiser.
Obama? Try the GOPe; obama is waiting in line.
Increase spending, increase taxes,fund Obamacare, make it easier to increase taxes going forward, make it impossible to cut future spending,remove all leverage...that is not a sell out?
you are actually right because Ryan sold out ten plus years ago and this deal is just par for the course.
He seemed pretty unconvincing on Hannity just now. He parroted the old “we gotta win elections to get anything done” line.
I don't get what changed about Ryan. Do Democrats have things against him?
In any case, I sure hope the right wing of the Republican Party does what it can to block this.
Do you think Ryan maybe is thinking the Senate as well as the House is going Republican and these changes benefit such a change? If not, I don't get Ryan on this.
I have never understood comments like this about people like Ryan or Roberts. I don't have to believe in conspiracies or blackmail and just take it at face value that they are just RINOs, moderates, traitors, whatever you want to call them.
It’s getting close to Bronson time for all of us I believe.
Republicans will face intense pressure over unemployment benefits
BY GREG SARGENT
December 11 at 12:24 pm
[snip] The imminent expiration of the Emergency Unemployment Compensation program for 1.3 million Americans is mostly being treated as a fait accompli in Washington... (Dems have created an interactive map showing how many people in each state stand to lose benefits.)... This strategy includes placing Op ed pieces by Democrats in papers that serve the districts of top Republicans, such as this one by Rep. Sander Levin in the Cleveland Plain-Dealer, the largest paper in John Boehners home state. The game plan is granular: One Democrat points out to me that stats are available on how many would lose benefits on the county level, and that Dems are trying to push these numbers into the coverage, because it is tangible for people in local communities. [/snip]
Don’t they fund Obamacare for 2 years in this? How can they say there are no tax increases? Obamacare is one big, fat, painful TAX.
You mean when he told obama off about Obama care aka Romneycare...aka GOPcare...
Obamacare is a REPUBLICAN establishment invention.
Obamacare was modeled as the healthcare version of Medicare D which PAUL RYAN wrote...I repeat RYAN wrote(much of) Medicare D ten years ago that socialized prescription drugs.
Nothing AT ALL changed about Ryan...but people are starting to wise up(till the next one tricks them for another decade and another 20 trillion)
For really difficult cases they probably pull out some files, casually drop in the names of their kid's elementary schools, their wives car make...etc.
Glenn Beck claims this was essentially what happened to him, more than once.
What they forget is we put them in for a 2 year term to fight for our beliefs. It isn’t about waiting and serving the people in a cowardly manner until the time is right or until you’ve stolen enough from the trough.
Romneycare is Romney as far as I am concerned.
train..bus..same difference. (:
Any “conservative” that would run with Romney is a sellout megalomaniac.
No GOP House member is safe from a primary, in fact the more conservative the district the greater the chance that the sellout incumbent will get the heave ho.
I wonder if he even knew what he approved.
Evidently, the Murray-Ryan bill is several hundred pages and this detail was buried in the small print.
In the Ryan-Murray bill, the change is found on 17-18 in the legislative text, where the bill sets up a deficit neutral reserve fund and incorporates 57 individual sections of the Senate Democrats budget as having force and effect. The process is quite complicated, but in practice it grants Harry Reid the authority to send tax increases to the House with a bare majority, rather than the 60 vote threshold that would be required under the point of order.
That's not an excuse, of course. But it dramatizes that the 'Rats will do anything and everything to secure an advantage, while the Repubs simply aren't paying attention and don't seem to realize they're in a fight to the death.
If the govt can print money, what are taxes for? Hmmmmm?
Paul Ryan is outed.
He’s a tax increaser. Remove him from office now.
He’s not naïve. He’s one of them, not one of us.
no.no. they invented it...and they were pushing it hard as recently as 2007.Senator Jim Demint was pushing for indv mandate in 2007
Republican voters have two groups fighting against them.
(1) the Democratic Party Leadership
(2) the Republican Party Leadership
The Dem Leader trash the Repub base.
The Repub Leaders trash the Repub base.
Anyone see the problem here for the Repub Party?
Yeah...and funds Obamacare for 2 years.