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Ryan Deal Limits Senate GOPís Power to Block Tax Increases
National Review ^ | 12/11/13 | Jonathan Strong

Posted on 12/11/2013 6:54:47 PM PST by Mount Athos

Senate Republicans scrubbing the Ryan-Murray budget deal have come across a little-noticed provision that will limit the GOP’s ability to block tax increases in future years.

The bill includes language from the Senate Democrats’ budget to void a budget “point of order” against replacing the sequester cuts with tax increases.

The process is quite complicated, but in practice it grants Harry Reid the authority to send tax increases to the House with a bare majority, rather than the 60 vote threshold that would be required under the point of order.

The provision has angered key Republican Senators. Reeling from Harry Reid’s unprecedented use of the “nuclear option” to end the filibuster on presidential nominations, they are incredulous that Paul Ryan would have backed another limit to their power.

“This is an appalling power grab that should never have been allowed to be in a final agreement. It’s essentially the ‘nuclear option’ part two, eroding minority rights in the Senate even further. Harry Reid must be very happy,” a Senate GOP aide says.

A House aide says Reid can send tax bills to the House all he wants, since they will never fly in the lower chamber. “House Republicans would never approve a tax increase,” he says.

While the point is true, the change will likely give Reid a potent political cudgel with which to hit Republicans over, since passage of a bill can put pressure on the other chamber to follow suit.

In the Ryan-Murray bill, the change is found on 17-18 in the legislative text, where the bill sets up a “deficit neutral reserve fund” and incorporates 57 individual sections of the Senate Democrats’ budget as having “force and effect.”

These provisions are a big loophole for Paygo rules that give senators the authority to raise a point of order on spending and tax bills, setting a 60 vote threshold. There is a detailed explanation for the process in this 2009 document from then-Senator Judd Gregg’s staff when he was Budget Committee ranking member.

Although the (current) Senate rules generally require 60 votes for passage of a bill, a bill can be amended after cloture has been achieved. In the case of the fall shutdown fight, Republicans helped provide the 60 votes to obtain cloture on the CR, after which Reid took out the defunding Obamacare provision and passed the bill with a bare majority.

Under normal rules, even after cloture had been achieved, any amendment would still be subject to a point of order and 60 vote threshold if it “pays for” spending increases by raising taxes. The Ryan-Murray deal waives that point of order in many cases, prompting the fear that Reid will use it to put political pressure on the House to replace the sequester with new taxes.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: debt; fail; gope; russia; ryan; sequester; spending
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1 posted on 12/11/2013 6:54:47 PM PST by Mount Athos
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To: Mount Athos

You can never trust a TARPer.


2 posted on 12/11/2013 6:57:16 PM PST by Theoria (Obama lied. My health care died.)
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To: Mount Athos

This is the other side of the coin. The tax increases that WILL come to pay for this spending.


3 posted on 12/11/2013 6:58:30 PM PST by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: Mount Athos
In 2008, we had a terrible presidential candidate, but at least we had a real Conservative running as veep.

In 2012, both the top and the bottom of the ticket were Big Government losers.

By all rights, 2014 should be a big -- big -- year for the GOP. But why bother? I'll do my bit in the primaries, but when Nov comes around, I will not be supporting any Liberals, even if they are "the lesser of two evils".

4 posted on 12/11/2013 7:00:04 PM PST by ClearCase_guy
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Ryan is a tool hungry for attention. He’d serve anyone willing to stroke his ego and satisfy his desire to author the greatest economic plan ever known to mankind.


5 posted on 12/11/2013 7:01:10 PM PST by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Mount Athos
RE :”The process is quite complicated, but in practice it grants Harry Reid the authority to send tax increases to the House with a bare majority, rather than the 60 vote threshold that would be required under the point of order.
The provision has angered key Republican Senators. Reeling from Harry Reid’s unprecedented use of the “nuclear option” to end the filibuster on presidential nominations, they are incredulous that Paul Ryan would have backed another limit to their power. “

Maybe the GOP should take the Senate back 2015 and change the rules to pass tax CUTS on a simple majority.

Not much is passing in House after this.

6 posted on 12/11/2013 7:04:20 PM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOPs warnings')
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To: Gene Eric

I am beginning to build a real dislike for Ryan.

He appears to be selling us out a little at a time.

Of course I wouldn’t trust pat Murray as far as I could toss her.


7 posted on 12/11/2013 7:04:40 PM PST by Venturer (Half Staff the Flag of the US for Terrorists.)
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To: Mount Athos

100% sellout.


8 posted on 12/11/2013 7:05:17 PM PST by VRWC For Truth (Roberts has perverted the Constitution)
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To: Mount Athos

Obama must have some kind of juicy file on Ryan. He’s turned into a Fabian stooge.


9 posted on 12/11/2013 7:05:32 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: I got the rope

The “deal” includes tax hikes, like a 124% security “fee” on airline tickets


10 posted on 12/11/2013 7:07:19 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: ClearCase_guy
"I will not be supporting any Liberals, even if they are "the lesser of two evils"."

WORD!

If they want me to vote for evil then I will do it right!


11 posted on 12/11/2013 7:07:24 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: I got the rope

That’s what I’m thinking.

The deal is a total betrayal, and doesn’t even show the slightest hint of conservative principle.


12 posted on 12/11/2013 7:07:37 PM PST by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: sickoflibs

How is it that Harry Reid would be sending tax increases to the House anyway. All revenues are supposed to start in the House.
Gawk I wish someone thought it mattered!


13 posted on 12/11/2013 7:08:02 PM PST by sheana
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To: Mount Athos

Ryan is naive.


14 posted on 12/11/2013 7:08:42 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (I grew up in America. I now live in the United States..)
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To: Mount Athos

Getting your clock cleaned by somebody like Rimshot Joe Biden during a debate would really mess up your brain. Ryan seems to have never recovered.


15 posted on 12/11/2013 7:12:41 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (If you think signing up for ObamaCare was fun, wait until you try to use it.)
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To: Mount Athos
Ryan has been proven to be retarded.

Let the TEA Party primary him.

16 posted on 12/11/2013 7:15:20 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: sheana
RE :”How is it that Harry Reid would be sending tax increases to the House anyway. All revenues are supposed to start in the House.
Gawk I wish someone thought it mattered!”

When Dems passed the seatbelt law here they promised not to let the police pull people over for it.

Well 15 years later they bought police night vision to catch us not wearing them in the dark.

17 posted on 12/11/2013 7:16:48 PM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOPs warnings')
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Yeah, that was our first clue.


18 posted on 12/11/2013 7:17:51 PM PST by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: Mount Athos

Ryan isn’t stupid. He’s a fraud.


19 posted on 12/11/2013 7:19:35 PM PST by VerySadAmerican (".....Barrack, and the horse Mohammed rode in on.")
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To: Mount Athos

he was already dead to me, he can’t be any more dead.


20 posted on 12/11/2013 7:21:36 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Mount Athos
I'm trying to figure the last time the democrats were in the minority, yet went whole hog trying to pass everything that liberals hate and getting nothing in return.

In fact, WHEN is the last time the democrats pissed off their liberal base for NO reason whatsoever?

Only a republican can be so stupid.

Anger the base, get nothing in return, don't attract ANY votes from democrats, and finally keep spending $ we just don't have.

Yeah, that's REALLY smart politics.

Forgot to add, after we've screwed over the base, attack them like nobody's business.

Then ask for them to vote for you.

21 posted on 12/11/2013 7:22:58 PM PST by boop (I had no IDEA I'd be paying for Obamacare. I thought it would be a rich guy.)
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To: boop

See I think this is beyond stupidity, something else has be going on.

Blackmail, etc..

He was supposedly to be one of the great hopes to represent conservative ideology. Instead he is at the forefront of selling out conservativism.

That’s not idiocy. That’s something else.


22 posted on 12/11/2013 7:24:24 PM PST by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: I got the rope
Remember when some freepers were all gooey over him being the vp nominee?

good times...

good times....

/dripping sarcasm

23 posted on 12/11/2013 7:24:56 PM PST by clintonh8r (Don't twerk me, Bro!)
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To: ClearCase_guy

>> I’ll do my bit in the primaries, but when Nov comes around, I will not be supporting any Liberals, even if they are “the lesser of two evils”.

I’m coming around to that point of view.

I held my nose in ‘08 and ‘12 and pulled the (R) lever.

I’ve reached my breaking point though. From now on I’m refusing to vote for the douchebag vs. the crap sandwich (South Park reference). Instead I’ll just Galt out and take personal defense measures to improve my chances of survival regardless of which big government party carries the election — Democlicans or Republicrats.

(And for what it’s worth, the Libertarians ain’t it, either.)


24 posted on 12/11/2013 7:28:45 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: VRWC For Truth

I don’t think Ryan is trying to sell out.
The issue is that when you deal with Democrats moving to the so called middle it seems to always be a journey to the left.
We have a particularly brazen and almost criminal party in power now, and they are full of themselves and won’t back down an inch.
IMO if it is a bad deal then we need to push to block a new turd, and though I would not support Ryan for anything much I think he thought he was doing good.


25 posted on 12/11/2013 7:30:04 PM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: clintonh8r

>> Remember when some freepers were all gooey over him being the vp nominee?

I confess I do.

Older now, and wiser.


26 posted on 12/11/2013 7:30:39 PM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: I got the rope

Obama? Try the GOPe; obama is waiting in line.


27 posted on 12/11/2013 7:32:41 PM PST by Ghost of SVR4 (So many are so hopelessly dependent on the government that they will fight to protect it.)
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To: A CA Guy

Increase spending, increase taxes,fund Obamacare, make it easier to increase taxes going forward, make it impossible to cut future spending,remove all leverage...that is not a sell out?

you are actually right because Ryan sold out ten plus years ago and this deal is just par for the course.


28 posted on 12/11/2013 7:33:46 PM PST by Gipper08
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To: Mount Athos

He seemed pretty unconvincing on Hannity just now. He parroted the old “we gotta win elections to get anything done” line.


29 posted on 12/11/2013 7:35:12 PM PST by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: Gipper08
Ryan sure sounded good when he originally told off Obama about Obamacare a few years ago.

I don't get what changed about Ryan. Do Democrats have things against him?

In any case, I sure hope the right wing of the Republican Party does what it can to block this.

Do you think Ryan maybe is thinking the Senate as well as the House is going Republican and these changes benefit such a change? If not, I don't get Ryan on this.

30 posted on 12/11/2013 7:37:36 PM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: I got the rope
Obama must have some kind of juicy file on Ryan.

I have never understood comments like this about people like Ryan or Roberts. I don't have to believe in conspiracies or blackmail and just take it at face value that they are just RINOs, moderates, traitors, whatever you want to call them.

31 posted on 12/11/2013 7:42:08 PM PST by plain talk
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To: Secret Agent Man

It’s getting close to Bronson time for all of us I believe.


32 posted on 12/11/2013 7:44:51 PM PST by samadams2000 (Someone important make......The Call!)
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Republicans will face intense pressure over unemployment benefits
BY GREG SARGENT
December 11 at 12:24 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/12/11/republicans-will-face-intense-pressure-over-unemployment-benefits/

[snip] The imminent expiration of the Emergency Unemployment Compensation program for 1.3 million Americans is mostly being treated as a fait accompli in Washington... (Dems have created an interactive map showing how many people in each state stand to lose benefits.)... This strategy includes placing Op ed pieces by Democrats in papers that serve the districts of top Republicans, such as this one by Rep. Sander Levin in the Cleveland Plain-Dealer, the largest paper in John Boehner’s home state. The game plan is granular: One Democrat points out to me that stats are available on how many would lose benefits on the county level, and that Dems are trying to push these numbers into the coverage, because it is tangible for people in local communities. [/snip]


33 posted on 12/11/2013 7:45:27 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: plain talk; I got the rope
I have never understood comments like this about people like Ryan or Roberts. I don't have to believe in conspiracies or blackmail and just take it at face value that they are just RINOs, moderates, traitors, whatever you want to call them.

When past behavior IS NOT an indicator of current actions, and the change was rather sudden like it has been with Ryan and Roberts, then the what seems impossible, no matter how wacky it might seem, becomes possible, and even possibly, probable.
34 posted on 12/11/2013 7:46:48 PM PST by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: Mount Athos

Don’t they fund Obamacare for 2 years in this? How can they say there are no tax increases? Obamacare is one big, fat, painful TAX.


35 posted on 12/11/2013 7:47:08 PM PST by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheel barrow)
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To: A CA Guy

You mean when he told obama off about Obama care aka Romneycare...aka GOPcare...

Obamacare is a REPUBLICAN establishment invention.

Obamacare was modeled as the healthcare version of Medicare D which PAUL RYAN wrote...I repeat RYAN wrote(much of) Medicare D ten years ago that socialized prescription drugs.

Nothing AT ALL changed about Ryan...but people are starting to wise up(till the next one tricks them for another decade and another 20 trillion)


36 posted on 12/11/2013 7:48:17 PM PST by Gipper08
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To: plain talk
What I believe is someone sits these guys down and very somberly tells them what is going down. They explain that the bus has already left the station and that there is a cozy box car with their name already on it--and if they don't get on the train their life gets very uncomfortable.

For really difficult cases they probably pull out some files, casually drop in the names of their kid's elementary schools, their wives car make...etc.

Glenn Beck claims this was essentially what happened to him, more than once.

37 posted on 12/11/2013 7:52:04 PM PST by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: riri

What they forget is we put them in for a 2 year term to fight for our beliefs. It isn’t about waiting and serving the people in a cowardly manner until the time is right or until you’ve stolen enough from the trough.


38 posted on 12/11/2013 7:53:14 PM PST by samadams2000 (Someone important make......The Call!)
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To: Gipper08
The Heritage foundation and conservatives thought about health care like Romney care but went against it when they did the research and realized it would cost a fortune and become a bad problem.

Romneycare is Romney as far as I am concerned.

39 posted on 12/11/2013 7:53:22 PM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: riri

train..bus..same difference. (:


40 posted on 12/11/2013 7:54:18 PM PST by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: Gene Eric

Exactly

Any “conservative” that would run with Romney is a sellout megalomaniac.

No GOP House member is safe from a primary, in fact the more conservative the district the greater the chance that the sellout incumbent will get the heave ho.


41 posted on 12/11/2013 7:57:55 PM PST by Rome2000 (THE WASHINGTONIANS AND UNIVERSAL SUFFRAGE ARE THE ENEMY -ROTATE THE CAPITAL AMONGST THE STATES)
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To: Mount Athos
The provision has angered key Republican Senators. Reeling from Harry Reid’s unprecedented use of the “nuclear option” to end the filibuster on presidential nominations, they are incredulous that Paul Ryan would have backed another limit to their power.

I wonder if he even knew what he approved.

Evidently, the Murray-Ryan bill is several hundred pages and this detail was buried in the small print.

In the Ryan-Murray bill, the change is found on 17-18 in the legislative text, where the bill sets up a “deficit neutral reserve fund” and incorporates 57 individual sections of the Senate Democrats’ budget as having “force and effect.” The process is quite complicated, but in practice it grants Harry Reid the authority to send tax increases to the House with a bare majority, rather than the 60 vote threshold that would be required under the point of order.

That's not an excuse, of course. But it dramatizes that the 'Rats will do anything and everything to secure an advantage, while the Repubs simply aren't paying attention and don't seem to realize they're in a fight to the death.

42 posted on 12/11/2013 8:00:30 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: Ignorance On Parade)
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To: Mount Athos

If the govt can print money, what are taxes for? Hmmmmm?


43 posted on 12/11/2013 8:02:04 PM PST by logitech (It is time.)
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To: Mount Athos

Paul Ryan is outed.

He’s a tax increaser. Remove him from office now.


44 posted on 12/11/2013 8:15:45 PM PST by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

He’s not naïve. He’s one of them, not one of us.


45 posted on 12/11/2013 8:16:54 PM PST by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
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To: Mount Athos
More stupidity from the Stupid Party, No surprise, really.
46 posted on 12/11/2013 8:20:48 PM PST by Major Matt Mason ("Journalism is dead. All news is suspect." - Noamie)
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To: A CA Guy

no.no. they invented it...and they were pushing it hard as recently as 2007.Senator Jim Demint was pushing for indv mandate in 2007


47 posted on 12/11/2013 8:35:59 PM PST by Gipper08
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To: samadams2000

;)


48 posted on 12/11/2013 8:51:44 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Republican voters have two groups fighting against them.
(1) the Democratic Party Leadership
(2) the Republican Party Leadership

The Dem Leader trash the Repub base.
The Repub Leaders trash the Repub base.

Anyone see the problem here for the Repub Party?


49 posted on 12/11/2013 10:49:13 PM PST by OldArmy52 (The question is not whether Obama ever lies, but whether he ever tells the truth.)
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To: Mount Athos

Yeah...and funds Obamacare for 2 years.


50 posted on 12/11/2013 11:24:50 PM PST by spokeshave (OMG.......Schadenfreude overload is not covered under Obamacare :-()
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