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What Can New Pilots Make? Near Minimum Wage
WSJ via Yahoo Finance ^

Posted on 02/12/2014 6:54:34 AM PST by Red in Blue PA

A widening shortage of U.S. airline pilots is spotlighting the structure of an industry built on starting salaries for regional-airline pilots that are roughly equivalent to fast-food wages.

The shortage's toll rose Tuesday, as Republic Airways Holdings Inc., one of the nation's largest regional carriers, said it would remove 27 of its 243 aircraft from operation because it couldn't find enough qualified pilots. The news, which followed service disruptions at other airlines, sent Republic's shares down 4.1% to finish at $9.45.

Starting pilot salaries at 14 U.S. regional carriers average $22,400 a year, according to the largest U.S. pilots union. Some smaller carriers pay as little as $15,000 a year. The latter is about what a full-time worker would earn annually at the $7.25-an-hour federal minimum wage.

Regional carriers are a key link in the U.S. air-travel system. Big airlines, whose pilot salaries are much higher, outsource about half of their domestic flights to these smaller partners to save money.

(Excerpt) Read more at finance.yahoo.com ...


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To: Red in Blue PA
"I was shocked to read his"

Why? This is old news.

Don't you remember the Continental Connection plane crash in Buffalo?

The media has covered the problem since then. Go watch the PBS Frontline show, "Flying Cheap"

41 posted on 02/12/2014 7:38:47 AM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: Squawk 8888

I had no idea.


42 posted on 02/12/2014 7:41:43 AM PST by wally_bert (There are no winners in a game of losers. I'm Tommy Joyce, welcome to the Oriental Lounge.)
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To: Mr. K
There are MANY people who would love an opportunity to be a pilot. If there were only a few who wanted the job, the pay would be higher.

You could say that exact thing about physicians, CEO's and on down the line.
43 posted on 02/12/2014 7:43:29 AM PST by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

I dunno. What does a “starting pilot” do? Watch the actual pilot, and do gopher tasks? OJT?

Next question is, what do the pilots get paid when they become actually responsible for the flight?


44 posted on 02/12/2014 7:43:38 AM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Atlas Sneezed

Some of the regional airports are very tiny, seeing only 4 flights per day (commuter shuttles) in addition to hobby traffic. And that IS all they pay.

Nope, it’s not an ‘oh poor me’ union piece.

I had a family member...and I was shocked.


45 posted on 02/12/2014 7:44:05 AM PST by PrairieLady2
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To: Red in Blue PA

Standby CEOs for small companies often get paid little.


46 posted on 02/12/2014 7:44:57 AM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Yo-Yo
You have fuel, aircraft maintenance, gate fees, and capital equipment costs that eat up most of that. And the planes don't fly full both ways every trip, and many trips are lower than $99 per ticket, so the actual revenue is lower than the $11,200 figure. How much is left for CEO and management salaries?

Why is it only pilots take the hit?
47 posted on 02/12/2014 7:45:30 AM PST by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA
How much is left for CEO and management salaries?

You're right. There should be a law that CEOs cannot make more than 10 times the lowest paid employee, with a 20 year mandatory minimum sentence for any violations.

Economics tells us that if there is a pilot shortage, and it is the low salaries that are to blame, then pilot salaries will rise to attract new candidates.

48 posted on 02/12/2014 7:50:15 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: Red in Blue PA

if demand for pilots exist... and demand for flights exist... then salaries for pilots would be up.

if salaries are down, yet supply is short, then profitability must be very low.

of course, the individual pilot can only impact the profit generated by the single plane he/she is on at the time. payment for all members of the crew along with maintenance and overhead, would have to come out of the passengers on that one plane.


49 posted on 02/12/2014 8:03:08 AM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: DIRTYSECRET
PEOPLE AREN’T FLYING!

Passenger miles in billions by year.

2000: 500

2001: 472

2002: 469 Both 01 and 02 were pretty obviously impacted by 9/11.

2003: 493

2004: 543

2005: 569

2006: 575

2007: 592

2008: 568

2009: 539

2010: 552

2011: 564

2012: 569

2013: 484 (thru October only) Probably around 575 or 580 for the year.

It seems pretty clear that the primary factor affecting air travel miles is the general economy.

Gasoline costs twice as much under the Great One.

Over the eight years of the Bush administration, gas averaged $2.43. During the five years so far of the Obama administration, it's averaged $3.18. That's an increase of 31%, not 100%.

50 posted on 02/12/2014 8:06:41 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: sten
if salaries are down, yet supply is short, then profitability must be very low.

Then this should also be the case for CEO's too as many companies have gone bankrupt and there should be a plethora of management and CEO's.
51 posted on 02/12/2014 8:10:10 AM PST by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Back in the 90’s the Forest Service was offering me $9.95/hour to fly their Vietnam era Huey water-bombing forest fires.

The helo was based about 2 hours drive from my home, so I said that I would camp out for the duration of the fire season. Instead, they insisted that I must rent an apartment in that town to establish residency...for a 3 month Fire Season contract.

“Thanks, but I don’t need the hours or the job that bad.”

Many, many flying jobs are prime examples of the Law of Supply & Demand. There is a large pool of pilots needing to accumulate flight hours to make insurance companies happy. Now, with the FAA’s new requirement that co-pilots have 1500 hours for scheduled commercial operations, low time pilots will almost pay their employers in order to accumulate those magical 1500 hours.


52 posted on 02/12/2014 8:28:56 AM PST by BwanaNdege
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To: teg_76

Union or not you should believe this. Commuter airline pilots will often band together to share an apartment. I know a guy whose son shared an apartment with 5 other pilots to make ends meet. Why do they do it? Because they want to fly or set on a course they didn’t understand and can’t easily get off of.

Flying for the larger carriers is not much better for starting right seaters. The work is unreliable, the pay terms and time keeping requirements are insane. It is pretty much just an hourly job. One rate for each of flying, standby, in the cockpit waiting to take off, flight preparation and so forth. The pilots didn’t do themselves any favors decades ago when they set up the union.

Being an airline pilot is becoming a job of last resort for a lot of military pilots coming out. The job pretty much stinks these days.

Old guys with seniority do OK. The system was designed around them and seniority. Every body else is pretty much just getting by.


53 posted on 02/12/2014 8:39:25 AM PST by Sequoyah101
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To: Red in Blue PA

“You could say that exact thing about physicians, CEO’s and on down the line. “

Actually, along that line of thought, how much do doctors in residency, or doing rounds as students get paid compared to when they are out on their own? CEOs with less than a dozen employees when they are still working in the mail room or as interns? ...and on down the line.

I recall getting paid rather less than minimum wage during my training time, and first tour on the job...and once I had the experience, quadrupled my pay.


54 posted on 02/12/2014 8:55:44 AM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Red in Blue PA

We call people we fly “souls”.
I wouldn’t take responsibility for that for so little.


55 posted on 02/12/2014 9:00:26 AM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) obammy lied and lied and lied)
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To: Yo-Yo

“There should be a law that CEOs cannot make more than 10 times the lowest paid employee,”

Oh please. Given the typical ratio of employees to CEOs in the types of businesses you are seemingly thinking of, it would rarely make a substantial pay difference to the employees.

Covetting is not good thing.


56 posted on 02/12/2014 9:01:57 AM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Squawk 8888

You are correct. It took many years for my brother to crack into the decent wage scenario. Until then, when he was first starting out and had to build up flight time, I was making more money than him. As a secretary.


57 posted on 02/12/2014 9:15:35 AM PST by midnightcat
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To: nascarnation
I think the challenge today is the cost of accumulating enough hours to qualify for commercial.

I think that there are some foreign airlines that will take a college graduate with no flying experience. Another way is to join the military (doesn't have to be in aviation), and then use the education benefits to attend an aeronautical university.

58 posted on 02/12/2014 9:53:20 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

there should be a plethora of management and CEO’s


There are. There just aren’t many with good track records that companies want to trust to make a billion-dollar difference. Which is why the top ones get big bucks.

It’s also why there are “too many lawyers!” and “legal fees are too high!”


59 posted on 02/12/2014 9:53:54 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed ("Income Inequality?" Let's start with Washington DC vs. the rest of the nation!)
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To: Moonman62

The story I read says you typically graduate with 300 hours and then have to add the 1200 hours to get 1500 on your own nickel. In multi-engine that’s a lot of dough, isn’t it?


60 posted on 02/12/2014 9:55:23 AM PST by nascarnation (I'm hiring Jack Palladino to investigate Baraq's golf scores.)
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