Skip to comments.The "Ukraine Situation" Explained In One Map
Posted on 02/20/2014 4:34:22 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
Sadly, everything you need to know about the crisis in Ukraine in one worrisome map which summarizes all the relevant "red lines."
Given this - is there any doubt this will not end with peaceful resolution.
As Martin Armstrong warned this morning:
BOTH the USA and EU will now fund the rebels as Russia will fund Yanukovych. At the political level, Ukraine is the pawn on the chessboard. The propaganda war is East v West. However, those power plays are masking the core issue that began with the Orange Revolution corruption. Yanukovych is a dictator who will NEVER leave office. It is simple as that. There will be no REAL elections again in Ukraine. This is starting to spiral down into a confrontation that the entire world cannot ignore.
I hate to say this as I would like others to be free, but the USA needs to steer well clear of this. It has the same potential to start a MAJOR conflict as killing Arch Duke Ferdinand. We should not be funding rebel groups anywhere, especially when we have a total beta metro-sexual in the White House.
Looking weak and sounding weak while playing hardball with Putin could be fatal for lots of folks.
Would the illegal Libyan war have anything to do with this? Europe wanted to secure another source of oil. Therefore, they will have something to run on, while they split the Ukraine?
ShepNewsTeam ✔ @ShepNewsTeam STUNNING PIC: #Priest prays between police & protesters in #Ukraine. Nearly 70 people have died today in the violence 12:35 PM - 20 Feb 2014
“We should not be funding rebel groups anywhere, especially when we have a total beta metro-sexual in the White House.”
Zero the metro is not respected as a leader here or abroad. Putin has rubbed Obama’s face in every world conflict. I think we know Obama’s weakness has invited conflicts like this.
Martin Armstrong thinks Putin will move into Ukraine after the Olympics close.
I remember when Ukraine traded back some Tupelov TU-160 (B-1ski) bombers to Russia for forgiving gas debts.
They were showing the people being shot by snipers on either side.
I was thinking of Detroit and how easily it could happen here and how horrifying it was for people over there.
“Martin Armstrong thinks Putin will move into Ukraine after the Olympics close.”
That’s my bet.
The rebels are descendants of the same nationalist organization that initially welcomed the Nazis into Ukraine and helped them slaughter 1.5 million Jews. After the Nazis no longer found them useful, they were sent to the gulags and/or executed.
Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists
Ukrainian Insurgent Army
Declaration of Ukrainian Independence, 1941
Ukrainian collaborationism with the Axis powers
Who Was Stepan Bandera?
Even if we had the means - financial and military - to get involved in this, we have absolutely no business doing so. Two world wars in the last hundred years wasn’t enough? One more would very likely destroy the world as we know it. Neutrality and weakness are not the same thing. If you have no dog in the fight the worst thing you can do is run out and buy yourself a dog.
Nice Catch AMPU!
“If you have no dog in the fight the worst thing you can do is run out and buy yourself a dog.”
Was there a war that wasn’t started by Democrats? (Even the Civil War, though I think Lincoln should have let the South go. Slavery could not have stood much longer.)
That I am starting to think also. Once the Sochi games are done, the Russians will come right in.
You are on the right track, it is about shipping oil from Russia to Western Europe, the banks that the payments flow through.
The map explains the Russian interests (or at least partly), but not the “Ukraine Situation”.
A map showing the concentrations of religious affiliations would go further: the anti-Yanukovych protestors are mostly Uniates or affiliated with the (arguably uncanonical) “Ukranian Orthodox Church” which Constantinople is backing against Moscow, while Yanukovych’s electoral support mostly came from Orthodox who are under the Moscow Patriarchate (and happy to be under the Moscow Patriarchate, else they’d have gone with Constantinople).
For Russian interests, they better. For Ukraine, they better not. The big U could put a stranglehold on these pipelines and deny the Ruskies this chokehold.
Consider this like a very, very messy divorce.
Can you say "photoshop"? sure you can........
Consider this like a very, very messy divorce.
Remember when some media type asked Romney what concerned him in future foreign policy issues and he said our challenge from Russia? He was roundly ridiculed. No wonder the media isn’t recalling this exchange now, as our failed president flounders on the banks of incoherence once again.
These clergy are couragous to say it best.
Ukrainian kleptocrats and their families have fat bank accounts in the West, where they frequently vacation. I hope that the EU sanctions freeze those assets and deny visas to them. That’s something that the US can do as well.
Spain - July - 1936ish - ring any bells? In a sorta-kinda way, this could be a proving ground for worse conflict in the years to come.
Would Shep lie to us?
“For Russian interests, they better. For Ukraine, they better not. The big U could put a stranglehold on these pipelines and deny the Ruskies this chokehold. “
This is the difference between lawful countries and lawless countries. Until Obama the US was much more lawful. During the Civil War the Union approached Smith and Wesson for rear loading pistols in .44 and .45 calibers. S&W held the rear loading patent and had been awarded thousands upon thousands of .32 caliber pistols made by competitors who stole their patent. (Early on, they could only draw bras to .32 caliber. But by the Civil War they’d solved that problem.) S&W said, sure, but first you have to buy all these .32 caliber pistols. The US Army said, no, you can’t knock a man off a horse. So Smith and Wesson sat out the Civil war, which was fought with front loading Colts and Remingtons.
The Russians would have simply stolen the design and produced it. (They still steal and produce stolen designs.)
(Okay, donning pith helmet and ducking below my stone wall. ‘Cause you guys can’t hit an elephant from...)
the east west tug of war - between Russia in the east and anyone and everyone in the west - on the Ukraine and its manifestations inside the Ukraine did not begin with any time in the modern era, it goes back centuries
those centuries of conflict and division have left their marks all over the culture in Ukraine, in the demographic divisions and makeip of Ukraine, and in the continued uplifting of the scars of the past
No. Not photoshopped. There are many pictures and eye-witness accounts of groups of Orthodox priests (by their vestments all three of the men in the photo are priests — the epitrachilion, a stole sewed together down the front, is part of a priest’s vestments and is the only part worn when the priest is serving a service at which the Eucharist is not celebrated) interposing themselves between the protestors and the riot police.
Interestingly in the first accounts I read, the priests were specifically identified as being from the Moscow Patriarchate, rather than Constantinople’s territory-poaching “Ukrainian Orthodox Church”.
It goes back earlier than the days of Atilla the Hun.
yes, raw material resources for energy from Russia to western Europe account for about 1/3 of each - coal, oil and natural gas - imported to western Europe from Russia
small glitches in the deliveries can have big economic glitches in western Europe
western Europe will not go too far in supporting the oppisition in Ukraine, they want to keep their lights on
Reagan warned western Europe about the precarious energy security situation they were getting into with Russia, when it started before the end of the Soviet Union - no one listened
Apart from the area around Kiev in the middle, Ukraine is a sharply divided country.
Probably, they should have let Russia have the Crimean Peninsula in the south and the Donets Basin in the east.
There you go...a bunch of kids fighting for their lives and fighting for freedom from oppressive rule.
The best you can do i call them Nazis?
The best you can do is call them Nazis?
I don’t see Russia moving into Ukraine. Other than Russia, Ukraine is the largest country in Europe. It’s roughly the size of Texas. It has an army and a small navy. Ukraine is not Georgia. The Russian Black Sea fleet is based at Sevastopol. They don’t want to lose that base.
Disrupting the natural gas flow to Europe is a sure way to get other countries involved. Ukrainian units served beside us in Iraq. They held their own. Ukraine would not be a push over even if the eastern part of the country is pro Russian. The western part is very mountainous. Good luck with that.
Plus it would be very bad for business meaning the oligarchs would take their political power elsewhere. And Putin is not stupid. You can bet he won’t pull an Obama. The EU wasn’t the one that came up with money to help Ukraine. The intransigence of the EU was a big part of the reason the agreement wasn’t signed. Russia can get what it wants via the purse strings.
He’s on almost every one of these threads spearing the same half-baked crap.
Svoboda /= OUN
Again, God Bless those clergy, couragous folks.
“Was there a war that wasnt started by Democrats?”
I said their predecessors collaborated with the Nazis until Hitler no longer found them useful. And they were collaborators in the deaths of 1.5 million Jews whom they blamed for the Soviet revolution. And they fought everyone, Russians, Poles, Germans, Czech, Poles. The are a militant nationalist organization and if you look at the flags they are flying, they are flying their Jew killing flags from WWII.
It is quite interesting, whenever there is conflict in Ukraine, the Russians show up on Free Republic to protect their dictatorships, one by one they end up getting banned and find new names. And of course they are too chickenshit to respond. Typical.
The flags are flags of Independence.
They are fighting against a dictatorship...can you understand that? They are standing up to snipers and APCs because they are sick of the Russians.
Can you understand that?
“Nice Catch AMPU!
Gulf War and the GWOT. Short memory?
What you say is true. There were 100,000 Poles murdered by Ukrainian nationalists Volhynia and Eastern Galicia in 1943-44. Women, babies, seniors, priests. But shhhh, the West doesn’t want to hear about it, there is only one Holocaust. Still, today the ultra-nationalists in Kiev waving the red and black Bandera flags (Blood & Earth!) are only one of the groups in Maidan.
The Lvov pogrom of 1941.
Below is a serie of photos of the Lvov pogrom of 1941. The Jewish pogrom in the city of Lvov (Lviv, Lwow orLemberg) in Western Ukraine was organised by the Germans and “the Ukrainian people’s militia” (the Ukranian Nazi collaborators from so called OUN - Organisation of Ukranian Nationalists). The pogrom took place the first days of German occupation as a prelude to total extermination of Lvov Jews.
On the photos below - the scenes of street violence, beatings by stones, sticks, humiliation of women by public undressing, the humilation in the form of washing sidewalks, marches on the knees and with hands up across the city, the scenes of brutal arrests of Jews in the streets by Ukranian Nazi militia, which escorted them to forced works in former NKVD prisons in the city. In those prisons after various beatings and humilations they were shot dead in the courtyards. The total number of victims of the pogrom estimated to be between 2 and 7 thousands people. .