Posted on 02/23/2014 5:35:57 AM PST by Lower Deck
While recent years have witnessed a tremendous Chinese propaganda effort aimed at convincing the world that the PRC is a serious military player that is owed respect, outsiders often forget that China does not even have a professional military. The PLA, unlike the armed forces of the United States, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and other regional heavyweights, is by definition not a professional fighting force. Rather, it is a “party army,” the armed wing of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). Indeed, all career officers in the PLA are members of the CCP and all units at the company level and above have political officers assigned to enforce party control. Likewise, all important decisions in the PLA are made by Communist Party committees that are dominated by political officers, not by operators. This system ensures that the interests of the party’s civilian and military leaders are merged, and for this reason new Chinese soldiers entering into the PLA swear their allegiance to the CCP, not to the PRC constitution or the people of China.
(Excerpt) Read more at thediplomat.com ...
They might have lots of stuff, but they have hardly any active-duty troops with any actual combat experience. The last significant fight the Chinese got into was a border war with Vietnam in 1979.
Mao’s success probably goes back to the Chinese civil war in the Twenties. The PR in the Chinese countryside, where my grandparents lived, seemed to favor the Communist cadres who behaved “correctly” to the peasants and farmers while Nationalist soldiers were reputed to steal (not always true). The PLA (People’s Liberation Army, which also constitutes the Navy and Air Force) can possibly be dated back to the Communist Eighth Route Army.
The central government of Chiang Kai-shek seemed to be a government in name only, allowing numerous warlords and the Soong family (Madame Chiang’s maiden name) to serve in its place.
After the Sino-Japanese War (started in Manchuria in the early Thirties) numerous Americans naively attempted to negotiate a settlement between the Communists and Nationalists, not realizing what we all know now about Communism.
I am not blaming Clinton or Bush I, Bush II or 0bama for empowering China. But the damage they have done is greater than anything Nixon did. Your scenario assumes that the USSR would have overrun China and that no one but Nixon would have opened the world to China. I don’t believe the USSR would have even attempted it. Nixon was a terrible President but he is far from the worst especially considering the current resident.
The way we are downsizing, pretty soon we wont have that many active duty troops with actual Combat experience. Have you seen the projections of the Active Army strength in the next few years? A lot of good Officers and NCO’s are going to be forced out and in that environment, a lot of good men will take the first good opportunity afforded them to voluntarily leave. I served in the Vietnam and Post Vietnam Army and I know exactly what is going on now and it is criminal.
"Because what country wouldn't want air quality like they have in Beijing or Shanghai, or water like they have in Sochi?"
I don't think that would have happened. You let state's maintain their own pollution controls. The federal government has no business with it.
>>I don’t believe the USSR would have even attempted it.<<
Why not? East Bloc was at peak of power in 1970 and China was ox and cart at the time.
Ox and Cart is a little of an understatement. They still had one big weapon and that is called Manpower. Just ask any ofrmer member of the 1st Cavalry Division who was at the Choson Resevoir in the early 50’s when the Chinese came screaming across the Yalu River in Korea.
Aircraft carriers are a measure of might for the last war - the one that's already been fought. China's a threat in the real world of today.
Browse videos of Polish, German, let alone Soviet military drills from the 1970s on Youtube.
Russian:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xPIGOjEPrto
Soviet Germany:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zQW-px5C3zI
Socialist Poland:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NpuORPtSxhY
Any of the above are finest military by modern standards, let alone 1970s. An alliance like that could have been steamrolled Red China without breaking a sweat. And we are talking about conventional forces only, ignoring some 40,000 nuclear warheads East Bloc possessed in 1970.
Sounds just like what our military is being transformed into.
Sir, With all due respect, I think you missed the central point. Spending 200 billion on a military where every order from company sized units up is a matter of an open debate between the military officer on the scene and the communist party officer on the scene is, to use an anatomical comparison, rather like the surgeon intentionally sewing the scissors into the patients gut following an operation. This we KNOW is not a good plan and rational rational people can predict that the patient will not perform very well when he tries to get up off the table.
In the instant case, an Army debating orders from the top down is doomed in the lightning speed of modern warfare. Anyone questioning this Should just Talk to any SURVIVIVING OFFICERS in Husseins Army.
On the Thresher, that incident occurred in 63 on a brand new nuclear powered submarine in DEEP WATER while on sea trials not a few miles offshore on a mature diesel boat. Our enemies can fantasize to the contrary all they want but it is doubtful the US Navy was having any “crew” issues on Thresher. You are correct that new experimental military equipment like the Raptor and the Thresher (in 63) are inherently dangerous. Mature diesel boats offshore are not comparable to the Raptor or brand new nuclear powered submarines back in 63.
Finally, Marxist/Lenists/Socialists do not have a history of being efficient with other people’s money. History tells us that it is much more likely that sizable portions of the 200 billion are ending up in private foreign accounts. You can Google up ample recent examples of “Chinese” corruption and execution of those involved.
You say the “the writer” is being “way to glib in his conclusions”. With all due respect to you sir, and in my opinion, you are being “way to glib in your comparisons” of a Third World “Political military” to the most modern and experienced and “professional” military on the planet.
The EPA is a front for socialists. Attention was already directed at air and water quality problems before the EPA was established. This is like the situation with the unions. Workers were already demanding better conditions and pay before the unions organized and took over. The problems would have been solved without some heavy-handed authority putting themselves in charge.
The EPA and other enviro-jerks have given us toilets that don’t flush, appliances that don’t work, cars that are small and dangerous, various formulations of products that prove to be more hazardous than what they replaced, detergents that don’t clean, inhalers that don’t work, pesticides that don’t kill bugs, violations of property rights, regulations that kill development or stall it for years, and higher prices on almost everything.
Yeah, thanks, Nixon, for all that. Oh, and don’t forget taking us off the gold standard and wage and price controls. With Republicans like that, who needs Democrats?
The real question here is WHY DON'T the Chinese have helicopters? And the answer is that human labor is so cheap in China it's cheaper than machines.
For patrolling, men on horseback have some advantages over helicopters. Horses are quieter than copters, so they don't advertise their arrival from miles away. Horses are cheaper than copters, not needing as much money for fuel and maintenance. They are right there on the ground, where they can observe footprints and other signs that intruders are in the area. And if they have radios, then backup can come by helicopter real fast.
Fantastic post...!
Makes a thorny topic easily digested, even if on some points I disagree.
Though I can only imagine the fear generated at the sound of Chinese bugles during the battle of the Chosin Reservoir.
Which is great, if you can tell me how the pollution from one state will remain in that state alone.
"Which is great, if you can tell me how the pollution from one state will remain in that state alone"
You let things play out in federal court then.
Do you have a vested interest in the EPA? Do you work for GE? I'm just curious.
Great. Cheap and better. That’s confidence building for out side. Thanks for sharing PapaBear - interesting insights you’ve got there...
True about the ox and the cart. But they were also one of the Soviets’ largest customers for arms sales. Plus there were enough Chinese to fight the Soviets for years without any real modern weapons.
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