How the Ukraine Crisis Ends [Henry Kissinger]

Public discussion on Ukraine is all about confrontation. But do we know where we are going? In my life, I have seen four wars begun with great enthusiasm and public support, all of which we did not know how to end and from three of which we withdrew unilaterally. The test of policy is how it ends, not how it begins. Far too often the Ukrainian issue is posed as a showdown: whether Ukraine joins the East or the West. But if Ukraine is to survive and thrive, it must not be either side’s outpost against the other — it should function as a bridge between them. Russia must accept that to try to force Ukraine into a satellite status, and thereby move Russia’s borders again, would doom Moscow to repeat its history of self-fulfilling cycles of reciprocal pressures with Europe and the United States. The West must understand that, to Russia, Ukraine can never be just a foreign country. Russian history began in what was called Kievan-Rus. The Russian religion spread from there. Ukraine has been part of Russia for centuries, and their histories were intertwined before then. Some of the most important battles for Russian freedom, starting with the Battle of Poltava in 1709 , were fought on Ukrainian soil. The Black Sea Fleet — Russia’s means of projecting power in the Mediterranean — is based by long-term lease in Sevastopol, in Crimea. Even such famed dissidents as Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn and Joseph Brodsky insisted that Ukraine was an integral part of Russian history and, indeed, of Russia.

Right.

I want you to please cite for me the last country the United States invaded because a dictator transplanted millions of Americans there 70 years ago with the express intention of undermining and destroying the country. When you can do that, we'll talk about your "moral equivalence."

As a matter of fact, I want you to cite for me that last country that asked the US to leave, and the US did not leave. [Hint: our staying is based on a treaty signed in 1903, which liberated that country from imperialism; and we actually would have left, except for -- surprise! surprise! a de facto Soviet invasion of that country.]

Your talking points are the usual Russkie agitprop, completely without foundation of any kind. You Putin boot lickers [and other body part lickers] think you're going to be unopposed on FR because of Putin's anti-homosexual policies.

Wrong.

He's a KGB thug and a murderer, and nothing about Russia has changed -- including the lies spread by her agents provocateur.

Boot licker.

There’s nobody on FR who is a Putin boot licker...and your comment deserves to be put in the dustbin of history along with your mindset to even imagine the International Community and Nation leaders are operating from policies “70 yrs. ago”.....that’s just insanity.

Russia isn’t the nation it was 70 yrs. ago.....it’s come far..but now think about where our own nation is...and we’ve been concerned about that for years now.

The leadership of this country is moving everything to the East..manufacturing, business, industry and workforce not to mention it’s politics....certainly it’s revenue is being spread to all and any country in re-building. You cannot deny that.

You can live in the past..I choose to see the World Stage as it is....from the facts which are there to assess today and this with an ‘understanding’ of History.

Further the US doesn’t invade directly...it props up, funds and organizes uprisings in the nations they want a change in Governance in.....and then installs those they believe they can manipulate. Sometimes working...most times not.

Hi, Krosan,

Your full reply to me is copied here for caww's benefit. I had to read twice to realize the question at the end of the article was not aimed at me: :-)

I live in Estonia and I remember the same propaganda blasted by Russia at us starting from ~1990. “If they would ever get their freedom they’d be coming back in 6 months begging on their knees to be taken back to the USSR”.

Hasn’t happened so far (and is never going to happen), but I guess after 25 years they felt safe reusing the same propaganda believing everyone has forgotten about it.

Just like the "Nazi" nonsense, eh?

Still they did. Here is someones translation from a Russian language article.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*** Claim: Nobody in Europe needs Ukraine, they have nothing to offer Europe; their industry will collapse and they’ll crawl back on their knees, hungry and in rags, begging to be readmitted.

Well, the same things were said about the Baltics in the end of 80s and the beginning of 90s.

Literally the same things: they have nothing apart from sprats and agricultural produce, but Europe’s got plenty of those even without them. They have no resources, why would they ever think they’d make it?

20 years have passed, and the Baltics are lost to Russia. And, as everyone probably noticed, nobody’s been asking to be allowed back.

They didn’t starve and they didn’t freeze.

It turned out you could indeed live without the Soviet industry – and live an European life at that. Yes, the Baltics aren’t Benelux, but the Baltics are, undeniably, Europe. So what if these places are still relatively poor, at least they’re living nicely.

We must keep in kind that the Baltics have, indeed, very limited natural resources – so their present state is all the more impressive.

Now back to Ukraine. I’d like to ask you: why do you think that the tiny and resource-poor Estonia could find their place in Europe, but the large and naturally wealthy Ukraine somehow won’t be able to?

Resources aren’t just oil and gas, as we’ve gotten used to thinking. Resources also mean the people, the land, the climate and much, much more. All you need is time, and willingness to do something.

That is one of the most inspiring things I have read for some time. So I stayed up very late and "studied up" on Estonia. (Unlike caww, I don't know everything already. Often I prefer to ask questions.)

Anyway, wow... Outside of the lack of God in the culture, Estonia certainly seems to be getting a lot of things right. This is especially noteworthy considering all you went through, until 1990! I am VERY impressed!

To the point, though, while I was researching Ukraine, I recall thinking: This country could be an economic powerhouse, up there with Germany and France, if it got it's act together. Therein lies the problem, I suppose: It's a "people thing". I have mentioned rooting out the corruption and market reforms, but I also suspect Ukrainians need confidence, and the knowledge that hard work and creativity, not shady deals and connections, will lead to greater success. (Am I anywhere "close" to correct?) Maybe Ukraine really does need more "independence" from Russia and a Russian outlook and ways, too?

Another question (anyone can chime in): Is it possible that to some extent, Putin believes his own propaganda about "Nazis", and fears that a Ukraine run by such would become economically successful and a real regional power? After all, even with all the effort expended in non-productive (and often horrific) activities, Nazi Germany was a VERY "efficient" system in some ways.

Or, perhaps Putin simply fears a more independent Ukraine that might pursue a path similar to Estonia's?

Hi. I saw your message and sorry I responded so late. I am just overwhelmed by things happening for what I don't see a reason other than Putin going insane.

Ukrainians can see very easily how their neighboring Poland has became a dynamic high income economy and how they are doing like some African country. Young people knowing foreign languages and traveling see it better. Old people have only seen Soviet propaganda and are stuck in the Soviet mind-ruining past. Plus to add to it an intense Soviet propaganda from Russia. "Having a Volkswagen car factory here means we're gay! Just continue working in a mine for pennies and be happy!"

I'll add a chat here showing polls by age.

I am sure Putin does not believe his own propaganda of Nazis taking over Ukraine. I'll post a link to an open letter that Jews in Ukraine sent to Putin. If you scroll to the end you'll see who has signed it and that it has a very wide cover.

Letter: http://maidantranslations.com/2014/03/05/open-letter-of-ukrainian-jews-to-russian-federation-president-vladimir-putin/

Footnote:

Here is the comparison between the GDP per capita of Poland and Ukraine, that I mentioned earlier

Here's what your weasel words amount to: The US attempts to influence foreign policy made in other countries, but doesn't actually invade those countries, and leaves when it's asked. The NeoSoviet Empire does invade other countries and won't ever leave. Therefore, [in your mind] the US and NeoSoviet Empire are morally equivalent. And from this genuinely infantile moral outlook you claim to be seeing the world "as it is."

OK, boot licker.

Putin, KGB officer thug, revanchist, imperialist, military adventurist, torturer, oppressor of his own people, murderer and all-around Ioseb Besarionis Dze Jugashvili wannabe is not interested in a Russia that existed 70 years ago? You'd better tell him that: "The collapse of the Soviet Union is the greatest tragedy of the 20th Century." "The Fall of the Soviet Union is one of great calamities of history."

I think your boyfriend is the one living in the past.

Boot licker.

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