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Russia, Putin, Ukraine: Some Background

Posted on 03/18/2014 9:10:05 PM PDT by varmintman

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To: kabar

I’m just curious if Obama would get off his dead ass and defend Poland. If we’re going to go back to the cold war, we need much more competent governance than what we have now.


81 posted on 03/18/2014 10:44:25 PM PDT by virgil
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To: Marguerite

Well if we actually had a decent government, we would have been drilling like crazy and become the major supplier to Europe.

But the enviro-ninnies won’t allow it.


82 posted on 03/18/2014 10:45:59 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: arthurus

Yep, I believe pretty soon they will be running the JAG offices.


83 posted on 03/18/2014 10:47:16 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: varmintman

I think Putin saw an opportunity with the unrest going on in Ukraine and monopolized on it. He invaded with the lame excuse that he was saving “Russians” in Crimea.


84 posted on 03/18/2014 10:47:38 PM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
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To: dfwgator
England stood by Poland even though it was ill-prepared for war. On September 3,1939, in response to Hitler's September 1 invasion of Poland, Britain and France, both allies of the overrun nation declared war on Germany.

The first casualty of that declaration was not German—but the British ocean liner Athenia, which was sunk by a German U-30 submarine that had assumed the liner was armed and belligerent. There were more than 1,100 passengers on board, 112 of whom lost their lives. Of those, 28 were Americans, but President Roosevelt was unfazed by the tragedy, declaring that no one was to "thoughtlessly or falsely talk of America sending its armies to European fields." The United States would remain neutral.

As for Britain's response, it was initially no more than the dropping of anti-Nazi propaganda leaflets—13 tons of them—over Germany. They would begin bombing German ships on September 4, suffering significant losses. They were also working under orders not to harm German civilians. The German military, of course, had no such restrictions. France would begin an offensive against Germany's western border two weeks later. Their effort was weakened by a narrow 90-mile window leading to the German front, enclosed by the borders of Luxembourg and Belgium—both neutral countries. The Germans mined the passage, stalling the French offensive.

The containment of the Soviet Union depended upon the credibility of NATO and its forces. The Soviet Union imploded as our containment policy worked. If the Russians don't believe that NATO's commitment is real, then there is a real danger of war. And unlike 1939, both sides have nuclear weapons.

85 posted on 03/18/2014 10:50:35 PM PDT by kabar
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To: dfwgator

“Yeah, well, how did that alliance with England and France work out in 1939?”

Not very well. They declared war to Germany, but French army sat on Maginot line without firing a shot, and England try to get in Europe ended with the catastrophe at Dunkirk. One year later, France was occupied and Germans launched the blitzkrieg against England. Not a single Brit or French soldier ever reached Poland territory.


86 posted on 03/18/2014 10:51:14 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: kabar

And I believe Poland can go toe-to-toe with Russians on their home turf. I think their soldiers are more professional, than the Russian conscripts, and they are definitely more motivated.


87 posted on 03/18/2014 10:52:20 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Marguerite

Meanwhile, Poles saved Britain’s bacon in the ‘Battle of Britain’, fought in all theaters (Monte Cassino). And what did they get? Sold out to Uncle Joe.


88 posted on 03/18/2014 10:53:31 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Marguerite

And the Russians would also be bankrupt as their economy would be devastated without the sale of oil and gas to Europe. They don’t have the infrastructure in the short term to sell the same volume to China or Japan.


89 posted on 03/18/2014 10:53:38 PM PDT by kabar
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To: virgil

We need a leader who leads from the front.


90 posted on 03/18/2014 10:54:23 PM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

March17, 2014 - “To the surprise of most speculators gas and oil pipelines crossing Ukraine have operated normally since the incursion, according to officials from Gazprom and OAO Transneft, Russia’s oil-pipeline operator. Russian crude flows through Ukraine via the southern branch of the Druzhba pipeline, which carried about 300,000 barrels a day last year, according to data from Ukraine’s energy ministry. That’s a fraction of the 3.05 million barrels of crude and 1.02 million barrels of refined-oil products that Russia exported daily to Europe last year”

http://www.fxempire.com/news/commodities-news/oil-gas-continue-to-flow-from-russia-via-the-ukraine-to-europe/


91 posted on 03/18/2014 11:02:03 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: kabar

Can the US provide Europe with 3 million barrels of crude and 1 million barrels of refined-oil products per day, and 40% of its natural gas needs, THAT is the question.


92 posted on 03/18/2014 11:07:01 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite

We put a man on the moon...Went from having virtually no Army to kicking Nazi and Jap butt in the span of a few years.

We can do anything we set our minds to, if we just have the will.


93 posted on 03/18/2014 11:08:23 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Marguerite

Regarding Poland & baltics getting most of their energy from Russia...

This country needs to slap itself awake to the national security importance of energy independence for ourselves and our allies. This would avoid all kinds of terrible future entanglements, compromises and sacrifices.

It also would mitigate our risk from unpredictable developments in the middle east and avoid unsavory deals with the devil with countries like Saudi Arabia.

Obama shutting down our coal industry was insane, when the USA has an incredible advantage in huge coal reserves. Invest in cleaner coal burning tech.

We have an oil boom thanks to fracking, despite Obama trying to put as much lands off limit to drilling and slow walking on permits. Open more to drilling with the urgency of our national well being depending on it.

Our country is one of very few with huge reserves of Uranium. Dramatically expand nuclear energy output with safer reactors like the French have. We already are maximizing and expanding existing reactors because it’s impossible to build new ones. Germany shutting down all their nuclear plants was idiocy. The chinese are building plants like crazy right now.

This would also have the side effect of creating a booming economy with lots of jobs and drastically shrinking the national debt. All while strengthening our allies.


94 posted on 03/18/2014 11:11:57 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: All

Russia production of natural gas was of 668 billion cubic meters in 2013; 500 billion cm were exported to Europe.

The US sent 0.1 billion cubic meters of liquefied gas to Europe in 2013.


95 posted on 03/18/2014 11:16:54 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite
The US sent 0.1 billion cubic meters of liquefied gas to Europe in 2013.

Ridiculous. But that's our government for you.

96 posted on 03/18/2014 11:17:33 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Marguerite

Which is fine and dandy. Nobody’s dissing commerce.

Should this give Russia a license to just go rearranging countries every time it feels like it? Some demur.


97 posted on 03/18/2014 11:18:30 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: dfwgator

“We put a man on the moon...”

And?

And now American NASA astronautes rely on Soyouz rocketry in Baikonur, to reach the ISS.


98 posted on 03/18/2014 11:26:06 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite

America has some catch-up to do.

And fine. This may be a bee under its bustle to do just that.


99 posted on 03/18/2014 11:27:32 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

“Should this give Russia a license to just go rearranging countries every time it feels like it?”

The precedent was set when the USA bombed the hell out of Serbia to strip Kosovo from it’s sovereign territory.


100 posted on 03/18/2014 11:28:20 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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