Renewables Aren’t Enough. Clean Coal Is the Future

Wired.Com | March 25, 2014 | Charles C. Mann

[CedarDave]

FR is prohibited from posting from Wired.com, title and link only:

http://www.wired.com/2014/03/clean-coal/

[gunsequalfreedom]

Please provide evidence of renewable energy being used in an economically effective large-scale energy production system.

I most certainly am not an advocate of industrial scale solar.

[chrisser]

Do you see no benefit is homes being able to energize the grid at a rate that will pay homeowners at least something to do so?

It's not up to me to see a benefit. It's up to the power company. It's their grid, their personnel, their equipment.

If you can generate enough power that it becomes in their interest to pay you for it, I have no problem with that. If you can't, but you want to use government to force them to buy from you anyway - that I have a problem with.

Why would you invest in a system that generates excess power without knowing you could get a return on that investment? Or are you one of those people who doesn't want to invest in a proper storage system to make the intermittent power you generate service your usage patterns and instead want to use the grid as a storage medium and have the power company pay you for using their systems to do so?

And why doesn't the water analogy work?

[gunsequalfreedom]

It is a public utility, so not their grid. The analogy does not work because water supplied to the system must be treated for health and safety. A house can add electricity to the grid safely as bunches of homes do every day...but without being paid for it.

[MortMan]

For small-scale, solar works OK if you live in an area that provides enough sunlight. This issue comes in, at the grid level, that hundreds of small-scale producers supplying their excess electricity to the grid-level electricity provider doesn’t alleviate the need for that provider to have the capability to manufacture or procure all of the electricity needed by the grid at any moment. What is economically feasible at the small-scale end (as long as the large-scale provider is required to subsidize the small-scale generators by buying excess power)doesn’t alter the production/procurement requirements at the large-scale end.

Just my $.02, of course!

Have a great day, FRiend.

[gunsequalfreedom]

A good 2 cents worth, good discussion. You describe the problem not just for small scale solar but for wind generation also. Wind has been able to plot some degree of predictability but it is still a pain for the people that manage the grid.

For homeowners in the southwest, solar works great but you can’t put in a system that produces over 80 percent of your needs because it does not pay as a return on investment to do so. That is why solar companies ads pitch reduce your bill and are not pitching eliminate it or make money. The rate is too low. You also lose any credit at the end of the year if you do have a surplus system.

That does not speak to your point. Just adding to the conversation.

[MortMan]

Some pretty good pennies you offer, as well!

Have a great week, FRiend.