UKRAINE: Intercepted Phone Calls Show Putin Called The Shots On European Hostages In Ukraine [AUDIO]

FORBES ^ | 5/04/2014 12:02PM | Paul Roderick Gregory

[UMCRevMom@aol.com]

As the Kremlin claims it cannot control separatist forces in east Ukraine, its clear orchestration of the release of kidnapped international observers shows the exact opposite.

Overshadowed by the Ukrainian assault on occupied towns in the Donbass industrial region, and by bloodshed in Odessa, is yesterday’s release of eight international observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) held hostage in Russia’s command and control center of Slovyansk. With Slovyansk under siege and the risk of Russian operatives being captured, Putin probably concluded he needed to get the black mark of the hostage taking of OSCE international observers off the agenda. It is enough that Putin’s local commanders would face murder charges for the well-documented killing of a local pro-Ukrainian politician.

Russia has publicly asserted that the hostage taking was a purely local matter, over which they have no influence or control.

Russia’s lie is exposed by tapped phone calls, obtained by the Ukraine Security Service (SBU), that took place on May 1 and 2 between Colonel Igor Girkin (alias Igor Strelkov), the military commander of the “People’s Republic of Donetsk,” and Putin’s special envoy, Vladimir Lukin.

[tcrlaf]

“tapped phone calls, obtained by the Ukraine Security Service (SBU),”

Ukraine doesn’t have the capability to intercept comms.
The NSA, however....

[DoughtyOne]

It’s overseas where the NSA should be directing it’s efforts.

I don’t have a problem if the NSA did do this.

Now, what about Putin’s actions here?

You have nothing to say about the core issue?

[vladimir998]

I hope the NSA is helping the Ukrainians.

[tcrlaf]

SO, this is the gospel truth, but the Russian intercepts of Nuland and the US State Department never happened??

Make up your mind, will ya?

[DoughtyOne]

Nuland and the US State Department were conspiring to take hostages and or control their fate after the fact? Really?

I guess I missed that.

[Defiant]

Agree, this is what the NSA is supposed to do. Only they are not supposed to leak out.

[Rashputin]

It's a voice recording any reasonably capable person much less an intelligence group could put you in that recording if they have a sufficiently clear sample of your voice to begin with. They're way, way, beyond cutting and pasting words from multiple samples together and they can whip out whatever they think will float.

Besides, didn't Merkel ask Putin to do whatever he could to get them released?

So, he assigns someone to work that out if possible and they do work it out, it's proof that he wasn't doing what the people who want the hostages out asked him to do?

I'm missing how this is anything other than proof that Putin tried to do what he was asked to do and succeeded. That's sinister?

[DoughtyOne]

They didn’t. The Ukraine claimed the find...

[DoughtyOne]

If it is precisely as you described it, no.

To the extent it varies from your description, the more it does seem problematic.

[VerySadAmerican]

With Snowden keeping Putin informed I doubt he’s stupid enough not to know his phones are tapped.

[Rashputin]

They're voice recordings so they're probably both bogus or at least edited, have parts "redacted", etc.

Show me proof the people on the recordings were where at the two ends of the link they claim to have recorded at the time of the recording and the odds they're accurate, genuine, recordings like they claim to be goes all the way up to 50/50.

[Rashputin]

Too many chefs stirring in the stew and claiming to find nuggets of gold for me to believe any of them.

The SBU? Please, they don't have an agenda, do they? Those guys couldn't even tell the people in Kiev their Parachute Brigade was unreliable and shouldn't be sent to East Ukraine but they're wizards with intelligence?

[DoughtyOne]

I don’t necessarily disagree with that. None the less, there is the element of plausible denyability, and that’s essentially all a clandestine operation needs to defer responsibility.

Do you see this as an evil act on the part of the NSA, providing it is the entity that provided the information?

There is the off chance that the Ukraine came up with this on their own.

[Rashputin]

If it's the NSA then intercepting is doing their job instead of breaking both the letter and intent of the law that governs them, why would that be evil? It would be a refreshing change from putting most of their resources into watching the US, but not evil by any means unless they created a fake which, technically, they cannot do.

That's what the CIA is for and they're only supposed to generate fakes pursuant to a specific National Security directive signed by the President. Now, the President wouldn't specify means, just "disinformation guys" and they'd be off and running but you see what I mean I'm sure.

As for the transcript, I don't even see someone trying to maintain plausible denyability in those, that's one of the red flags to me. There are just too many ways they could have talked about other things and made all the same points with no one the wiser.

It's like they're trying to keep casual listeners who might overhear them from knowing the exact timing or some such. Maybe the local guy was concerned that everyone wouldn't go along with the release and such a concern on his part seems to fit the bill better than hiding some scheme that Moscow has been running.

Hey, you can read it a lot of ways. It just seems a little odd that when the hostages are released and someone somewhere may say that's a sign Putin is interested in keeping the lid on the SBU comes up with "proof" of what? That a Russian guy got the people released, so, the Russians must have been behind the whole thing.

That's a little like King Barry suddenly releasing his phone conversations with a half dozen different groups in the ME telling him there's no way he can rescue the people on the ground now that the lid's blown off of Libya. Convenient.

[DoughtyOne]

If it's the NSA then intercepting is doing their job instead of breaking both the letter and intent of the law that governs them, why would that be evil? It would be a refreshing change from putting most of their resources into watching the US, but not evil by any means unless they created a fake which, technically, they cannot do.

Welll, technically, they can do it.  Hell, you and I could do it.   Legally?  No.  I'm not convinced they have placed anywhere near their total resources in domestic intercepts.  I am unahppy they have put any into this.

That's what the CIA is for and they're only supposed to generate fakes pursuant to a specific National Security directive signed by the President. Now, the President wouldn't specify means, just "disinformation guys" and they'd be off and running but you see what I mean I'm sure.

Yes.  I believe so.

As for the transcript, I don't even see someone trying to maintain plausible denyability in those, that's one of the red flags to me. There are just too many ways they could have talked about other things and made all the same points with no one the wiser.

Perhaps so...

It's like they're trying to keep casual listeners who might overhear them from knowing the exact timing or some such. Maybe the local guy was concerned that everyone wouldn't go along with the release and such a concern on his part seems to fit the bill better than hiding some scheme that Moscow has been running.

Clandestine waters become merky at some point...   Smiles....

Hey, you can read it a lot of ways. It just seems a little odd that when the hostages are released and someone somewhere may say that's a sign Putin is interested in keeping the lid on the SBU comes up with "proof" of what? That a Russian guy got the people released, so, the Russians must have been behind the whole thing.'

There's some reason in that.  I agree...  (hating it all the way mind you)  LOL

That's a little like King Barry suddenly releasing his phone conversations with a half dozen different groups in the ME telling him there's no way he can rescue the people on the ground now that the lid's blown off of Libya. Convenient.

Pershaps so, but lets not go there while we're in somewhat of an agreeemnt to agree to a certain extent prior to the interjection of this fine mess... LOL

[DesertRhino]

Ok, so if Putin does nothing. He is responsible for them being held. But If he calls the hostage takers and uses his considerable influence to have them released, he is responsible. That’s a neat trick.

And by this logic, Obama and the CIA is calling the shots in Kiev. After all, they contact them and tell them what they should be doing.

So which is it young feller?

[DesertRhino]

“I hope the NSA is helping the Ukrainians.”

Oh,,I’m almost certain they are. They side with evil worldwide. They illegally spy on the American people and hounded Snowden for telling us about it, they supported the moslem brotherhood in Egypt and Libya, they support Al Qeida in Syria, and the Moslems in Kosovo. I don’t see any reason they wouldn’t support national socialists doing the EUs bidding in Kiev.

[Rashputin]

"Welll, technically, they can do it. Hell, you and I could do it. "

I wasn't clear, I used technically with regard to the tecnincalities of the law.

[caww]

.....”Ukraine doesn’t have the capability to intercept communications”.....

Correct. However that has now become the focus of the Kiev Gov. “insiders” to change that.

Recalling now how Commuications were completely gone between Crimea Military and their Base and why they couldn’t act...no orders were getting in or out.

When you add to the mix many Ukranians do not want to fight what they “perceive” is their own people....so the Military has that issues as well as the Military itself has been infilitrated for some time.

I believe that might be why Keiv. Gov. hired the Right Sector, (under the disguise of a “New National Guard), as the Right are brutal as we’ve seen already, and will not hesitate from going after Russians.